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Yoda? Is that you?
Do you know how long have they been there?
Last edited by ChumpDumper; 10-06-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: left out a word
Yoda? Is that you?
Hehehehehehe..........
Edited.
So you are ignorant about how long they have been there.
Hehehehehehehehehehe..............
They were hoping Barry do what he ran on vs doing what he did.
I don't think these people are against the stimulus, BTW. I don't think the protests have anything to do with policy, and that's exactly why it's nothing like the Tea Potties.
No matter the party, to get to the WH or Congress you need a ton of dough, and the financial industry is exactly where a lot of that dough comes from, along with the influence and leverage. It's not surprising the protests are in Wall Street, and not in Orlando, FL.
No just laughing at you reaching for some "brilliant" comeback to
my post.....
So you're saying you know how long they've been there.No just laughing at you reaching for some "brilliant" comeback to
my post.....
How long?
Let's see your brilliant comeback to a simple question of fact.
I predict it won't actually answer the question.
Yoni, Wall Street takes this money regardless of how much the government pushed it. You stated as much in the very next sentence.
As for how well or bad we'd be doing, that's a matter for someones crystal ball to sort out.
And in no other system does such a large disparity of wealth exist. I don't argue that overall, capitalism has given us vast benefits that no other countries have. That doesn't preclude the notion of accountability though. No one gets a pass because they donated to Random Charity X at some point (unless it's Random Political Party Charity X, but that's another argument).
Good clip.
I disagree.
Until Government forced it on them, Wall Street only received money that was freely given them by the markets.
Solyndra. We'd be $535 Million Dollars richer if we hadn't given them money. It doesn't take a crystal ball to figure that out. If the banks had been allowed to fail, investors would have lost everything. But, the beauty of the free market is that others would have bought the remaining assets and liabilities for pennies on the dollar and built another empire.
All the government did was force me (via my tax dollars) to invest in a failing business instead of allowing me to wait and see if what replaced it was better.
Why is the disparity a problem? We have the richest poor in the world...because of the benefits of our capitalist free market economy.
And, in no other country can a poor person ever achieve the wealth available in this country.
And, yet, you're not persuaded to his position?
Good clip.
Then if there is no official list, what pray-tell is the actual reason for the protesting?
You said: It would be foolish for a company to decline a legal means to remain solvent. Now you maintain that they would have if the government hadn't insisted?
Agreed, but you've only covered 535 million of 10trillion+ problem. What about the trillions that still exist because of the intervention? How much richer would we be today if trillions were allowed to disappear four years ago?
Perception mainly. Americans tolerate this to a much greater degree than other societies. Sooner or later the small guy catches on ( I think this is what you're seeing with the protests, albeit in this iteration they don't have their together). The gap is widening and standard of living is on the decline. Once Venti vs Grande is replaced by Mortgage vs Meds, problems ensue. I dont' claim to know when that will occur, but one is hard pressed to argue that it won't at some point given the current trajectory of things.
I'm not anti free market Yoni. I said as much in my prior post.
We can't have Capitalism with Accountability though?
We would be so much better off with another full-out Great Depression?
Really?
That's what you are going with?
Wall Street was "forced" to take TARP money in about the same sense that drowning people are "forced" to take life preservers.
Sorry, they rather shrewdly calculated that they would get backstopped and they did.
They counted that the gun to their heads would make politicians blink.
They were right. I say it is time to take the gun away from them.
You might want to do some research on how countries/civilizations fare when wealth is hyper-concentrated among a very few at the top. From 1960 to 1980 the richest 1% share of the national income was ~10% in the last 30 years, the top 10% share of the national income has surged to ~25% (link) and if you look at wealth, not income, the numbers are even more staggering.
Do you honsely not see any issues with having the vast majority of the wealth in America in the hands of so few?
We're slowly headed to depression now and there's no guarantee allowing those banks to fail would have resulted in a depression but, even if it did, we would already be recovering instead of continuing to sink.
Isn't this "Occupy Wall Street" movement all about causing the exact failures the government actions of 2008 were designed to prevent? And, if so, why is the administration sympathizing with them instead of telling them to STFU?
Wealth is not a finite commodity so, it's not very productive to treat it as such.
now you want the president to tell people to shut up?
Who told you to say that?
Lol. The fact is the top 1% have continued to see their incomes and wealth grow exponentially as compared to the lower %99. Please explain to me how that is good for America.
I'm saying government was wrong to give them the legal means to stay solvent. They should have allowed them to fail.You said: It would be foolish for a company to decline a legal means to remain solvent. Now you maintain that they would have if the government hadn't insisted?
Solyndra was my proxy for the Trillions the government has wasted since roughly the inception of LBJ's Great Society -- and, some would argue it goes back further, to FDR's overreaches. I don't agree with the premise that Trillions would have disappeared if the banks had failed.
All the money tied up in the failing ins utions would have gone somewhere.
Catches on to what?
I think the one thing your algorithm discounts is the wealthy need a society of functioning people, with incomes, and jobs, and discretionary budgets, in order to remain wealthy.
I think the government can monitor the markets without playing an active role. When you write legislation that extorts banks into lending money to people that can't afford to pay it back and then expect those banks not to develop mechanisms (such as credit default swaps and mortgage-based derivatives) to reduce their risk; I think it can be argued that government is the problem, not business.
I'm still not sure what, precisely, you think the capitalists have done to cause this problem. I mean, if I go down the list of grievances of the "Occupy Wall Street" gang, I could make an argument that none of them are the fault of business but, instead, either derive from government interference in the markets or choices made by the aggrieved.
That is to say wealth is infinite?
Come on Yoni.
Tell me how it's bad.
Everyone's income has risen -- well, until Obama took office, that is. But, still our poor are the wealthiest in the world.
One look at our 1789 GDP compared to our 2011 GDP would tend to say, yes; wealth is, in fact, infinite...or pretty damn close to it.]That is to say wealth is infinite?
Come on Yoni.
At the very least, wealth can be created and is not something that requires government redistribution.
Why not, instead of demanding business give back their wealth (to whom is my obvious question), lift the oppressive regulations that are keeping them from investing capital or employing Americans?
Okay then, enlighten me, what are these people actually protesting about wall street exactly (besides greed and corruption), or are you unable to answer this? Why are you, and others, backing this protest? What do they want to accomplish with this exactly?
Do you not like greed? It is not just on wall street.
That link is on their website, and there was no "official" rebuttal, just a blog of users' comments, and that short statement saying it was made up by fox and such. I went to their website and I found no real statement of what they actually want, just vague ideas.
If they have valid ideas, fine, but to me, so far, it is just a random protest someone started because it is the "in thing" to do, I may join the movement if I feel it is right.
yoni building straws left and right...
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