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  1. #151
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Where does the authority to legitimize a childbirth come from? You do know what legitimate means right? I'll help:



    le·git·i·mate (l-jt-mt)
    adj.
    1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
    2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
    3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
    4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.
    I get it, but honestly - it had never occurred to me....

  2. #152
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    And with the various municipalities jacked up reporting of crime stats (See Dallas for example...we don't even report thefts/shoplifting <$50), I have even less faith in an aggregate crime figure than I do in Elvis's continued existance on Neptune.
    Faith is what people have when they don't have good reasons to believe something.

    Too much money involved for me to put stock in your "faith" that things are worse than they appear, no offense.

    Either your faith can be quantified and measured, or it can't.

    I don't want my public policy made on faith that Bigfoot will ride to the rescue either.

  3. #153
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    If you say those numbers make a good case for free abortions, then you are making the same argument as the founder of Planned Parenthood (nothing to be proud of, tbh).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics

  4. #154
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    lol Darrin trying to reverse the racist whip

    A little late.

  5. #155
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    All I ask is that we try to base things on some rational evidence. Darrin beat you to it. He does that every once in a while, just with my opinion of him, no doubt.

    My thing:

    Kids with no fathers (or mothers occasionally) around are inevitable. Have always existed, exist now, obviously, and will always exist.

    We can discourage them with a total lack of assistance, which will reduce the numbers as a very likely result, at the cost of having kids living in squalor that will shock the conscience, and likely force us to deal with violent predators and the costs that entails.

    We can help them. This will increase the numbers, and mitigate the worst effects of poverty.
    --We can wave our hands and hope that charity will pick up the slack, which I am certain will not happen to a degree sufficient to the problem.
    --We can have government programs of some sort.

    Generally, I am not a fan of punishing children for the sins and/or failings of their parents. That I find both short-sighted and immoral. Denying someone help when they need it clearly falls in this category, IMO.

    Well, I'd start with eliminating the marriage penalty - probably not gonna make much of a dent (at all), but is simple to do; and would make the tax code reflect a societal value (again, not religious; two parents are good for society - and the kid).

    Now, I just realized my own child is not home, and the bus arrived 30 minutes ago; later.

  6. #156
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I get it, but honestly - it had never occurred to me....
    I know the feeling. I got harangued by an Asian classmate once for using the word "oriental". It had zero emotional tone for me, and was simply sort of a catchall synonym for "Asian", but she took it as some huge personal affront without giving me the benefit of the doubt for not wanting to insult her.

    I asked her what she would say about me, and she said "caucasian", and I pointed out my Germanic ancestors would have a problem with that particular term. Don't think she got it.

    That wasn't the last overly aggressive Asian female I have had to deal with on that topic. Meh.. off topic again.

    SQUIRREL!!!

  7. #157
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    If you say those numbers make a good case for free abortions, then you are making the same argument as the founder of Planned Parenthood (nothing to be proud of, tbh).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics


    You go with your bad self having that argument with yourself.

  8. #158
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    For all you know, he could be in heaven waiting for you.
    Along with countless child molesters, murderers and gay porn stars.

  9. #159
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Where does the authority to legitimize a childbirth come from? You do know what legitimate means right? I'll help:



    le·git·i·mate (l-jt-mt)
    adj.
    1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
    2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
    3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
    4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.
    \



    FuzzyLump prefers bas or son.

    "Legitimacy" as it relates to child birth comes from a wierd time in human history when it was normal for children to be born of married parents.

  10. #160
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Everybody gets visited by three ghosts?
    QUIT BRINGING RELIGION INTO THE PARTY!




  11. #161
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Beats me. There's no longer any (or as much) social stigma having kids out-of-wedlock.


    Not sure I want the stigma back, tbh.

  12. #162
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Fuzzy does have a point there though.

    The word is a bit archaic, something like "eskimo" for Innuit peoples and "oriental" for Asians.

    We could probably find a better word that doesn't have the historic baggage, at the risk of being politically correct. FWIW.

    Not that I think it hugely important. It is far less important than finding solutions, to me.
    This

  13. #163
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Not sure I want the stigma back, tbh.


    Yeah, because it was just like this.

  14. #164
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Yeah, because it was just like this.
    You didn't really watch that whole thing, I would guess.

    Since you didn't answer how your "stigma" solution would work or what it would take to make it happen, or even if it was a good thing, I kinda have to fill in the blanks.

    Do you have anything to fill in the blanks?

    Is this "stigma" a good thing to have?

    You can't about someone filling in your theory for you if you are too lazy to do it yourself.

  15. #165
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Looks like I touched a nerve.

    The bible is far from consistent about what it says are "christian" values, so you will have to pardon me for some small amount of confusion.

    How does one reconcile "kindness and gentleness" with:


    It goes on.


    How do you reconcile that (incomplete) list with loving kindness?

    Is burning in for all eternity (infinite punishment) for a finite sin of not believing in God consistent with this loving-ness?

    Is stoning people for their sins consistent?

    If you were a priest in the Bronze age, what better way to keep people in line than the threat of eternal punishment in the afterlife?
    It's pretty clear to me from the passage I cited (did you even read it?)... your confusion stems from the fact that you so willingly want to render the whole concept null by discrediting what you simply don't and can't understand, thereby justifying your own disbelief. That's why you are unable to reconcile what you read with your own sense of judgement (and since you've hardened your heart you are therefore blind to an understanding of scripture itself).

    Anyways, the passages you cited don't include the full context of how GOD assessed the situation, and despite the extreme nature of His justice those passages portray His ultimate grace and mercy. For that matter, we cannot weigh the merit of GOD's judgements because we ourselves are imperfect and injust. If you had a garden, and saw that you needed to pluck out a few weeds knowing that if you didn't pluck them out that they would eventually overrun your garden, wouldn't you do it? The better question is, why wouldn't you? GOD 'cut' perverse generations from among Israel's neighboring nations because they were idolatrous, evil, people - but in doing so He prevented the proliferation of countless of other souls which would have su bed to the same evil practices. GOD exists outside of time and acted in perfect harmony with His Justice and Holiness.

    Now, under the grace provided by the New Covenant (paid for by Christ's blood) the full delivery of GOD's justice will be delayed until Judgement Day.

    Which brings me to your next post....

  16. #166
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Don't try to shed the OT, either. That would piss Jesus off.


    Representing Jesus means hewing to the laws of Moses, that outlines the death penalty for a host of things, among which are that non-believers are to be put to the sword.
    Anyone who doesn't accept the offer of grace provided by the New Covenant through Christ's blood will be subjected to judgement according to GOD's law... This is why the Law won't pass away "until all things have taken place".

    Believers on the other hand are made Righteous before GOD in Christ's Righteousness.

  17. #167
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    That isn't what the data shows. It is leveling off.

    Free condoms for everyone.
    Was it leveling off in 95?

  18. #168
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    yeah rg, you've hardened your heart! lol

  19. #169
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

    b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

    c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

    d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

    f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

    Hitler and the Pope
    g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

    Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book led: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

    h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all sexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to cons ute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism



    "God is with us" worn by German soldiers and SS.

    Seems pretty clear to me that they thought they were doing the Lord's work.

    You say they weren't, they say they were.

    You don't get to disown them simply because you find them inconvenient for your worldview, sorry.
    Again, "Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.". I don't care if Hitler professed to be the Pope himself, he was nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, a false prophet, a liar.

    "13) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15) Watch out for false prophets (like Adolf Hitler). They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16) By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17) Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. (like Adolf Hitler) 19) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. (like Adolf Hitler) 20) Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (like Adolf Hitler) 21) Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name (like Adolf Hitler), and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? 23) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!''' Matthew 7:13-23
    Last edited by Phenomanul; 11-13-2012 at 05:49 PM.

  20. #170
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Why did God wait so long to make a new covenant?

    Instead, he wiped out humanity with a flood.

    You're lying when you say he is a god of grace.

  21. #171
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Again, "Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.". I don't care if Hitler professed to be the Pope himself, he was nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, a false prophet, a liar.
    What leaders are proven Christians?

    List please.

  22. #172
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Faith is what people have when they don't have good reasons to believe something.

    Too much money involved for me to put stock in your "faith" that things are worse than they appear, no offense.

    Either your faith can be quantified and measured, or it can't.

    I don't want my public policy made on faith that Bigfoot will ride to the rescue either.
    It's not faith, RG. It's data.

    http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...n_to_admit.php

  23. #173
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Why did God wait so long to make a new covenant?

    Instead, he wiped out humanity with a flood.

    You're lying when you say he is a god of grace.
    Oh yeah GOD was soooooo unfair... He destroyed Earth after Noah, his father, and grandfather (Methuselah) had preached about the impending destruction for over 100 years... I mean geesh... how long did it take Noah and his sons to build the ark? Over a hundred years... the people that mocked him probably sounded much like yourself calling GOD a liar and all...

  24. #174
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Oh yeah GOD was soooooo unfair... He destroyed Earth after Noah, his father, and grandfather (Methuselah) had preached about the impending destruction for over 100 years... I mean geesh... how long did it take Noah and his sons to build the ark? Over a hundred years... the people that mocked him probably sounded much like yourself calling GOD a liar and all...
    Why did god feel the need to just destroy it all?

    Did he need a mulligan?

  25. #175
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    when god makes a mistake, he cleans the entire room.

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