NBA: Kevin Love is a top 10 player in the NBA,,,,

[TDMVPDPOY]

These Love defenders are starting to get tiresome. What points of the game does Love get his stats? Are they primarily in the 1-3 quarters or in the 4th?

they are the same wankers who defend enrique...

their obsession with selfish pricks who pad empty stats

[djohn2oo8]

Also, most great rebounders are involved with the defensive play that results in missed shot or blocked shot. They help get the stop, then they secure the defensive rebound. This is true for players like Andrew Bogut, KG, Dwight etc... but not Kevin Love. He just gets the board, he didn't really do much to help get the stop.

[SpursFan86]

Players I'd take over Dirk:

MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Wilt
Bird
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
David Robinson
Oscar Robertson
Dr. J
Karl Malone
KG

That's 16 right there. Name me 9 more to make it 25...if him being top 20 is so absurd, then I'm guessing you guys don't even have him in the top 25.

I could see an argument for Barkley, but I personally wouldn't take Barkley over Dirk.

edit: just thought of two more people that have arguments over Dirk...Jerry West and Moses Malone. I think Moses is overrated as though.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Players I'd take over Dirk:

MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Wilt
Bird
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
David Robinson
Oscar Robertson
Dr. J
Karl Malone
KG

That's 16 right there. Name me 9 more to make it 25...if him being top 20 is so absurd, then I'm guessing you guys don't even have him in the top 25.

I could see an argument for Barkley, but I personally wouldn't take Barkley over Dirk.

u got kg up there who has a losing record h2h against dirk RS+PLAYOFFS...

[SpursFan86]

Also, most great rebounders are involved with the defensive play that results in missed shot or blocked shot. They help get the stop, then they secure the defensive rebound. This is true for players like Andrew Bogut, KG, Dwight etc... but not Kevin Love. He just gets the board, he didn't really do much to help get the stop.

Serious question: how many Timberwolves games did you watch last year? Be honest. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I watched every damn game, but I did catch quite a few and I never saw anything that led me to believe Love is a horrible defender who doesn't even get involved defensively aside from when it comes time to rebound.

And lmao @ saying we're the same ones who defend Parker. Parker sucked for the majority of the season last year. He was legitimately great in 2013, but in 2014 he was nowhere close to being a top 10 player in the league.

[SpursFan86]

u got kg up there who has a losing record h2h against dirk RS+PLAYOFFS...

Basketball is a team sport. KG played on ty teams for what, 11 or 12 years in Minnesota?

Kobe has a winning record against Duncan in the playoffs and the Lakers had the Spurs' number from '01-04...you could interpret that as Kobe > Duncan, or you could be smart and realize Kobe played alongside one of the most dominant players of all-time in their absolute prime, while Duncan's best player was a well-past-his-prime David Robinson.

[djohn2oo8]

lol

[djohn2oo8]

Serious question: how many Timberwolves games did you watch last year? Be honest. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I watched every damn game, but I did catch quite a few and I never saw anything that led me to believe Love is a horrible defender who doesn't even get involved defensively aside from when it comes time to rebound.

And lmao @ saying we're the same ones who defend Parker. Parker sucked for the majority of the season last year. He was legitimately great in 2013, but in 2014 he was nowhere close to being a top 10 player in the league.

Love has never even finished ONE season above .500 with a winning record. That must be because he does so much defensively?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Basketball is a team sport. KG played on ty teams for what, 11 or 12 years in Minnesota?

Kobe has a winning record against Duncan in the playoffs and the Lakers had the Spurs' number from '01-04...you could interpret that as Kobe > Duncan, or you could be smart and realize Kobe played alongside one of the most dominant players of all-time in their absolute prime, while Duncan's best player was a well-past-his-prime David Robinson.

bull , when it matter the most which was during their prime, it was kg job to defend best player or anyone playing at his position..therefore dirk was his main opponent and assignment, and dirk came out on top with or without good team

dont play that ty team mates card with KG when we already heard all the excuses with this clown down to his max contract that limited what the FO could do to build around him

u bring up duncan vs kobe during lakers 3peat +02/03+03/04 season make it 5 seasons...did kobe ever defended or duncan defended each other? it was not their jobs to defend each other when they play different positions, shaq was duncan main rival, not kirby, never mention robin in any super hero discussions man

[djohn2oo8]

Excellent post you used stats to back up a valid point. Jeez again with the stats obsession for some folks on here ... Over reliance on stats or simply looking at wins/losses are both foolish ways to determine Love's rank. You need to look at both and the "eye test". Some great points have been brought up on BOTH sides of the fence. But it's foolish to dismiss Love as an underrated stats padder when you look at his numbers and watch him play. Does he have his faults? Absolutely. But as posted above he is at least a mediocre or average defender and far from atrocious. Pau who so many love on here (no pun intended) was much worse on defense the past 4 years. Dirk after some improvement in that era (when he had quality defensive team-mates) has regressed as well. And you cant tell me Boozer is a much better defender than Love so i call bull on drating ..Also the Bulls version of Rodamn (if you watch closely) did the same thing Lobve is accused of ... leaving some of his defensive responsibilities early to position for rebounds ... but because he had MJ, Pipp and even Harper on defense to rotate and recover quickly...it did not hurt the team much if he failed to secure the board. And Rodman was considered the best defender of his generation (the Pistons version most definitely was, I think Spurs/Bulls version was overrated tbh)

Back to Kevin. I have seen Love play since college and lo and behold when he had Westbrook, Collison, Farmar etc as team-mates he led his team to success. And it's not like Howland is John wooden either. Love securing boards and making outlet passes to Kyrie and Lebron will be amazing. I had kind of hoped Wiggins would stay and they could pawn off Waiter/Bennett/Thompson plus picks. Love making those passes to Irving, James AND Wiggins would be amazing. Wiggins is overrated but he can run and jump and Love is a good passer in the half-court but might be the best outlet passer since Walton. His range will open up driving lanes for Kyrie, Waiters and Lebron and adding one of the best SF rebounders to Love and Verejao if he stays healthy and Cavs should corral most loose balls. I would think spur fans who value team play would appreciate Love more than most general NBA fans ...I wonder if some of the hate is fear?

Despite my desire to see Lebron mentor Wiggins ...this trade absolutely makes sense and puts Cavs in favored status to win a le. I am not saying they are better than the Spurs ... but their path to a le is certainly much easier. Only huge questions for Cavs:

1. Rim protection ... but the Heat won two les with less than stellar rim defenders/Anchors
2. this new coach ...I have heard great things and Spo won as an unproven coach doesnt hurt that he has Lebron (like Spo)
3. Can Kyrie thrive with two players that are better than him orchestrating the offense in key situations and can he thrive off the ball?
4. If Verejao is hurt not only due they lose what little rim rim protection they had but also their best pnr defensive big ...and he has not been healthy the past 3 years.
5. How much will this team rely on Lebron? No excuses, but you could see he was worn down last June. Yes his team-mates failed him worse but Lebron was not the consistent beast he had been the previous two Finals (mostly). Even with Love and Kyrie relying on Lebron has been a crutch for Spo, Mike Brown etc.

I wont become a Cavs fan but having two of the best passing forwards on one team should be exciting to watch for any true hoops fan.

Pau was actually a defensive anchor at one point in his career. Love will never be, not a good comparison.

[SpursFan86]

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...layerID=201935

Harden: 4 green zones (50% on 134 shots), 7 yellow zones (46.2% on 1004 shots), 3 red zones (27.9% on 68 shots)

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...layerID=201567

Love: 3 green zones (50% on 82 shots), 10 yellow zones (46.1% on 1304 shots), 1 red zone (30% on 30 shots)

[SpursFan86]

bull , when it matter the most which was during their prime, it was kg job to defend best player or anyone playing at his position..therefore dirk was his main opponent and assignment, and dirk came out on top with or without good team

They played ONE playoff series against each other lol. Why the are we using a 3 game sample size to determine who the better player is?

As for the regular season, it's 19-17 in favor of Dirk. Hardly a huge advantage. Let's look to see how they performed in those games:

KG - 22.3 ppg (52% shooting), 11.9 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.2 bpg

Dirk - 22.9 ppg (46.4% shooting), 8.2 rpg, 2.1 apg, .6 spg, .8 bpg

Yeah, Dirk sure owned KG.

[djohn2oo8]

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...layerID=201935

Harden: 4 green zones (50% on 134 shots), 7 yellow zones (46.2% on 1004 shots), 3 red zones (27.9% on 68 shots)

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...layerID=201567

Love: 3 green zones (50% on 82 shots), 10 yellow zones (46.1% on 1304 shots), 1 red zone (30% on 30 shots)

Love's shot chart is terrible for a Power Forward.

[Killakobe81]

Pau was actually a defensive anchor at one point in his career. Love will never be, not a good comparison.

I said the past 4 years. I would say right now yes, Pau at his peak is better than Love. Pau was much better on defense at one point but defensive anchor? YEs he was good at altering shots, was also a good but not great rim protector and a very good but not great rebounder. When motivated he could also contest shots in pnr but was never a great pnr defender. Anchor seems a bit strong to me ...But I love pau and dont want to sound as though I am bashing the guy.

[Killakobe81]

Love's shot chart is terrible for a Power Forward.

Love as established earlier is not a traditional PF ... so what does that matter?

[SpursFan86]

Love has never even finished ONE season above .500 with a winning record. That must be because he does so much defensively?

1) This might sound crazy, but some players...wait for it...improve as they get older. No one was proclaiming Love a top 10 player up until last year.

2) Do you remember how ing horrible those Minnesota teams were? They were literally starting Darko Milicic, Luke Ridnour, Wesley Johnson and Michael Beasley one year This past year was the first year Love had anything that even remotely resembles a decent supporting cast (and as I've already pointed out, it was really just the starters). KG missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from '05-07 and had a losing record during that span...I guess he wasn't doing enough defensively during those years

[djohn2oo8]

Love as established earlier is not a traditional PF ... so what does that matter?

Wait what? He doesn't even have a midrange game. He's only good for 3's and putbacks. Dirk isn't a traditional PF either, yet he has a MUCH better shot chart and better shot selections than Love.

[djohn2oo8]

1) This might sound crazy, but some players...wait for it...improve as they get older. No one was proclaiming Love a top 10 player up until last year.

2) Do you remember how ing horrible those Minnesota teams were? They were literally starting Darko Milicic, Luke Ridnour, Wesley Johnson and Michael Beasley one year This past year was the first year Love had anything that even remotely resembles a decent supporting cast (and as I've already pointed out, it was really just the starters). KG missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from '05-07 and had a losing record during that span...I guess he wasn't doing enough defensively during those years

You are completely missing the point yet again. Love has never had THAT Impact to be able to carry his teammates in that way. Garnett made the playoffs in his second year, and finished above .500 in his third. He's a future HOF, don't compare the two. Oh and if this is the first year he had a decent supporting cast, he still finished without a winning record. After 6 seasons, That is not top 10 worthy.

[SpursFan86]

I'm bringing up KG to show that a player can have a great impact and still not have team success.

KG's team missed the playoffs 3 years straight. Was that a result of KG not being good enough, or him not being surrounded by enough talent?

Obviously Love is nowhere near KG's level. That doesn't mean you can't draw parallels between their situations. If a player as amazing as KG can miss the playoffs 3 years in a row, why is it so crazy to call Love a top 10 player in the current league despite his team missing the playoffs?

And I'm still waiting for your top 10 list.

[djohn2oo8]

I'm bringing up KG to show that a player can have a great impact and still not have team success.

KG's team missed the playoffs 3 years straight. Was that a result of KG not being good enough, or him not being surrounded by enough talent?

Obviously Love is nowhere near KG's level. That doesn't mean you can't draw parallels between their situations. If a player as amazing as KG can miss the playoffs 3 years in a row, why is it so crazy to call Love a top 10 player in the current league despite his team missing the playoffs?

And I'm still waiting for your top 10 list.

KG was proven and had done it before that time period that he could carry a team. Love hasn't because he is incapable.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Love's shot chart is terrible for a Power Forward.

It has been established Love is not a traditional PF. And 59% TS is not horrendous.

[djohn2oo8]

It has been established Love is not a traditional PF. And 59% TS is not horrendous.

30% shooting inside the arc is terrible. That doesn't excuse him because he's not a traditional PF. He is still 7 ing feet tall.

[StrengthAndHonor]

KG was proven and had done it before that time period that he could carry a team. Love hasn't because he is incapable.

Love has missed a good amount of games for the past 3 seasons. You can't fully asses his ability to carry a team when he misses a good portion of it . Last year, when finally healthy, Wolves lost Pekovic their second most valuable player for about 28 games.

[skut_farkus]

Love

[Killakobe81]

30% shooting inside the arc is terrible. That doesn't excuse him because he's not a traditional PF. He is still 7 ing feet tall.

Wait what? Love was not even a legit 6 foot 9 (IIRC) coming out of UCLA did he grow 4 inches in Minny?