Mayor Hardberger and Tom Benson want the San Antonio Saints

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, in addition to coming up with the financing for a stadium, San Antonio de Bexar would have to find a way not to up the location of it.

[Marcus Bryant]

The state is not a magic money pit. Citizens outside of S.A. are going to go berserk if the governor talks about using tax money to subsidize a stadium deal. I know I would. If S.A. wants a team, let S.A. pay for it. Don't tell people in Dallas and Houston to pay for it. They've got their own teams and don't give a whether S.A. has one or not.

There might be a way for the state to offer some "incentives" for the relocation itself. But yeah, the prospect for permanent incentives seems iffy.

Stadia only generate revenue if they are part of a larger development initiative, a la Coors Field and LoDo in downtown Denver, or Petco Park and the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego.

If S.A. wanted to build a stadium smack dab in the middle of downtown in a place where they could get that many more people to spend time and money downtown, and simultaneously have developers invest to put even more restaurants and shopping and other attractions down there, that could work. But it seems that everybody freaks out at that those kinds of proposals.

Likewise, if a stadium were built around the Quarry, and developers had a plan to expand the area to serve the huge influx of people before and after the game, that could be a workable plan. But everybody has to be on the same page.

In and of themselves, stadia don't make any money. If you build one in a crappy industrial part of town, people will drive in to the game, and leave right afterward. SBC Center is a prime example.

Couldn't agree more. 'Economic development' arguments for stadiums in lower income neighborhoods crack me up. About the only thing you get are people making beer money by opening up their backyards for parking lots on game night.

I'm not sure where you could site a stadium downtown that would help to both spur development as well as capitalize on the old.

[ShoogarBear]

So a season ticket would be 8 games a season. You'd have to figure that most people would go to something less than 8 games a season. But at least you can sell them the full 8.

Actually, it's 10, including the mandatory preseason games included in the season ticket package.

[TheWriter]

I'm not sure where you could site a stadium downtown that would help to both spur development as well as capitalize on the old.

Southtown area. but then you'd have tons of NIMBY's protesting.

But there's areas in the downtown area where a stadium could be built with maybe a parking structure instead of a surface parking lot.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hemisfair Plaza seems like a good place to start.

[Marcus Bryant]

, the city ended up with a NBA franchise by going through the backdoor and without the league being overjoyed at the prospect. Might as well do it again. I don't see McCombs s ing out $700 mil like McNair did to put a franchise in SA.

Benson is SA's only hope for at least the next decade.

[TheWriter]

HemisFair seems like a good place to start.

Hemisfair is all Convention Center, Park, and Tower. No room for a NFL stadium.

And actually, the Park is being revitialized. As well as the Riverwalk being expanded into the Park.

[Extra Stout]

I'd bet that any business analysis will demonstrate that it's not just desirable, but imperative for any South Texas franchise to have significant support from the Austin market.

Just as a WAG, it wouldn't surprise me if anywhere between 20 to 40% of the attendance revenue for a sucessful team would be dependent on Austin.

If you put San Antonio and Austin together, the resulting market probably would be the most desirable in the country not currently serviced by an NFL team, excluding Los Angeles.

If you multiply MSA population and per capita income, San Antonio and Austin are roughly equal.

But putting those two together is difficult because they are 75 miles apart, and there is still a big geographical gap between the two metro areas; they are nowhere near contiguous. And, getting Austin to support an NFL team in addition to UT football would be a big challenge.

Once you get into the Round Rock area, a team would be competing with the Cowboys for the same football fans.

So, is it truly realistic to count upon the Austin market?

[Marcus Bryant]

Actually, it's 10, including the mandatory preseason games included in the season ticket package.

True. To really hit the Austin market, you'd have to also have a lot of coordination between the franchise and the local hotels and theme parks. Make sure every hotel has a "Saints Shuttle" running on game days.

Free/discount admission to Sea World and Fiesta Texas. Golf packages at La Cantera with season tix, etc.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hemisfair is all Convention Center, Park, and Tower. No room for a NFL stadium.

And actually, the Park is being revitialized. As well as the Riverwalk being expanded into the Park.

Doesn't sound like anything too important. Site the stadium as part of the complex with the river and Tower being incorporated into the design.

[j-6]

I'd like to think that SA's Joe SixPacks would rather see an NFL stadium than a park and some other landscaping and the old convention center on the Hemisfair grounds.

[TheWriter]

Doesn't sound like anything too important. Site the stadium as part of the complex with the river and Tower being incorporated into the design.

Do you not understand Hemisfair?

It's Convention Center and Park, with the Tower being in the park.

No way is anything being built on the part the size of stadium.

Buildings on the site of the part ar either being razed for more park space or converted into things like a children's museum.

And the park is pretty damn important.

[ShoogarBear]

So, is it truly realistic to count upon the Austin market?

I don't know if it's realistic. What I believe is that it's financially unworkable unless there is significant support from Austin. I just don't think there are the bucks in SA alone to support, say, 70,000 seats with 100 luxury boxes x 10 games/year x 5 years with a sucky team.

[TheWriter]

I'd like to think that SA's Joe SixPacks would rather see an NFL stadium than a park and some other landscaping and the old convention center on the Hemisfair grounds.

Well Joe SixPacks can go himself. As well as Johnny Couchpatato.

[Marcus Bryant]

Do you not understand Hemisfair?

It's Convention Center and Park, with the Tower being in the park.

No way is anything being built on the part the size of stadium.

Buildings on the site of the part ar either being razed for more park space or converted into things like a children's museum.

And the park is pretty damn important.

Yes I understand Hemisfair. There is room if someone has the balls to make it happen.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well Joe SixPacks can go himself. As well as Johnny Couchpatato.

Highest and best use.

[TheWriter]

I don't know if it's realistic. What I believe is that it's financially unworkable unless there is significant support from Austin. I just don't think there are the bucks in SA alone to support, say, 70,000 seats with 100 luxury boxes x 10 games/year x 5 years with a sucky team.

There's enough money in San Antonio to fill the seats, the only variable is those damn suites.

[TheWriter]

Yes I understand Hemisfair. There is room if someone has the balls to make it happen.

Ain't gonna happen. The park is too damn important.

Quit being a jackass.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't know if it's realistic. What I believe is that it's financially unworkable unless there is significant support from Austin. I just don't think there are the bucks in SA alone to support, say, 70,000 seats with 100 luxury boxes x 10 games/year x 5 years with a sucky team.

Yep. The Texans couldn't fill a home season opener despite having a marquee opponent in a metro area with a population of 4 million or whatever. ers also left the roof open on a 100 degree September day (125 on the field) in Houston, Texas.

[j-6]

Well Joe SixPacks can go himself. As well as Johnny Couchpatato.

Dude, it's not like we're discussing demolition of some of the Spanish missions. It's a park and an ancient convention center. Turn the Alamodome into the new Henry B or something.

(I guess I don't understand Hemisfair either.)

[Marcus Bryant]

Ain't gonna happen. The park is too damn important.

Quit being a jackass.

Not as important as landing a NFL franchise. You can keep the Tower, the Riverwalk extension and the Convention Center.

You do want to see San Antonio de Bexar progress and not regress, right?

[TheWriter]

Dude, it's not like we're discussing demolition of some of the Spanish missions. It's a park and an ancient convention center.

The convention center isn't ancient, they damn thing was expanded a few years ago.

[Marcus Bryant]

The convention center isn't ancient, they damn thing was expanded a few years ago.

Well there you go. You'd have a stadium + convention center all in one complex. You'd have some unique features to the property with the Tower and Riverwalk.

[TheWriter]

Not as important as landing a NFL franchise. You can keep the Tower, the Riverwalk extension and the Convention Center.

You do want to see San Antonio de Bexar progress and not regress, right?

Its park land, you don't build on park land. You don't build skyscrapers on park land, you build them on surface parking lots.

There's enough land else where in downtown. The best case would be in NoDo near the River.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nah. The park makes the best sense. It isn't a National Monument.