Reply With Quote
That's a specious argument. And, the answer is, you investigate the crime and prosecute the offenders -- whether it be a rapist or a woman falsely accusing someone of rape.
That's a specious argument. And, the answer is, you investigate the crime and prosecute the offenders -- whether it be a rapist or a woman falsely accusing someone of rape.
No, it goes back to holding individuals accountable for their actions -- in deference to the life of an innocent child who had no say in whether or not the woman should drop trou and create him.
Unrealistic. Rape accusations will increase insurmountably. You'd have to double your investigation team.And, the answer is, you investigate the crime and prosecute the offenders -- whether it be a rapist or a woman falsely accusing someone of rape.
Like having sex.No, it goes back to holding individuals accountable for their actions
Requiring a woman to go through with a pregnancy when she does not wish to be pregnant is punishment. I'm not even talking about the imprisonment after an illegal abortion.
But using the human rights argument when you're only interested in ending the "convenience" abortions, as you put it, is inconsistent.
I, too, am most concerned with the use of abortion as primary birth control. However...
...I disagree that the primary problem is ty women who need to be punished.
By the way, why, exactly, would rape reports go up? I've already stated I'd be opposed to abortions of pregnancies that resulted from rape and incest.
Like engaging in a practice that has consequences.
Abortion is, arguably, the taking of a human life. (<< Al Gore's words, not mine). Which is worse? "Punishment," if that's what you wish to call it, for having to live with the consequences of a choice or killing an innocent child?
Me? I pick being killed over being "punished" as the worst of the two. But, that's just me.
The majority of abortions are had by impoverished minority women.
Their choices with regards to sex may be a lot more complex than just being s who drop trau at the blink of an eye.
For example, they may have to choose between having sex or getting beaten, or have to choose between having sex or being abandoned. Safe sex isn't necessarily an option.
Don't be so quick to judge.
Because if claiming rape was the only way to get an abortion, then more women would claim to have been raped.By the way, why, exactly, would rape reports go up? I've already stated I'd be opposed to abortions of pregnancies that resulted from rape and incest.
That may be, but -- damn -- if we could end that practice first, wouldn't it be a good thing?
I never said it was. The primary problem is that no one recognizes that human life is being extinguished for reasons of convenience.
You may have a point. Perhaps we should also force adoption of starving African orphans on people who are caught speeding.Me? I pick being killed over being "punished" as the worst of the two.
Or at least raise taxes until we end world hunger altogether.
Yes. Here's a couple points:That may be, but -- damn -- if we could end that practice first, wouldn't it be a good thing?
1) An outright ban on abortions isn't necessarily the best way to get there.
2) If we're focusing on a drastic reduction in the number of abortions used as primary birth control rather than an outright ban, then the politicians actually can get something done, because I think everybody but the fringe groups agrees on that.
I merely stipulated that "duress" abortions were a legitimate starting place over which to disagree. I'm not in favor of abortions for rape or incest. The only abortions I'd even consider would be those where you are choosing between the life of the mother and the life of the child.
But, you're right, if I believed abortion was okay for rape and incest victims and not s -- that would be inconsistent. However, that's not what I believe. I just wish the argument was over those few people so afflicted.
And, focusing on that point, only draws attention from the elephant in the living room...the millions that seek abortions annually simply because they can't keep their pants on.
I believe it is better to work harder to prevent pregnancies than to try to stop abortions after pregnancy occurs.
That's like saying an outright ban on murder isn't necessarily the best way to stop the crime. And, that may be a true statement -- however -- decency should dictate that you not concede that point merely because it won't work. Why not use it in conjunction with whatever you feel is the best way to "get there?"
Unfortunately, the fringe groups are the ones providing most abortions -- Planned Parenthood being chief among them.
Duh! How could I be so blind?
How 'bout both?
But, even having said that, attempts to prevent pregnancy are thwarted at every turn. Abstinence information and morality instruction is eschewed in schools in favor of condom dispensers and over-the-top sex education classes.
There's simply no positive end to the issue.
If you continue to allow abortions, innocent lives are being destroyed, sometimes for no good reason.
If you ban abortions altogether, you would still have illegal abortions and forced miscarriages, and the added bonus of further government intervention into your private life if you expect to investigate women whose pregnancies end su iously.
If you distribute free birth control and condoms, not everyone will use them and some side effects may occur. You'd still have to decide on abortion being legal or illegal... But that would lend itself to REQUIRED birth control.
All told, I believe #3 is the best option.
And I believe you stand on the principles embodied in the Cons ution and quit trying to contemplate and navigate every possible outcome that could be chosen -- wrongly or rightly -- by individual people.
If abortion is wrong don't make it legal just to prevent people from making bad choices when they get pregnant.
The principles embodied by the Cons ution would not include imprisoning women for choosing not to go through with a 9 month pregnancy... Yes, it was irresponsible sex that led to that pregnancy, but it was irresponsible of the man as well, and for the man to get off scott free while the woman serves a jail term is sexism... also not embodied by the Cons ution.
I find abortion to be reprehensible, but I also find it to be the lesser of two evils when compared to the ensuing fascism required to police the banning of abortion, and all other factors related to it.
I just see the "only to save the mother's life" as a form of the same type of arbitrary line drawing that Yonivore despises with the viability standard. Who will decide whether the pregnancy threatens the mother's life? Does she have to go through some sort of bureaucracy to have that finding substantiated and her abortion approved?
And even then, aren't you forsaking the rights of the fetus anyway? Isn't that inconsistent with a policy that forbids abortion for the purpose of effectuating the rights of the fetus?
If you're going to create an exception, why not extend it to cases of rape or incest? Isn't that an arbitrary line, too?
Unless it was murder.
No, it's a matter of natural selection. If a man were capable of being pregnant, I'd feel the same way. And, if the man causes the abortion, he's just as guilty.
I don't follow.
I find it criminal.
Apparently, I place a higher value on the life of an innocent child.
Well, you're splitting hairs but, for the sake of argument -- let's follow this out.
Certain medical conditions that occur during pregnancy are known to be fatal or permanently disabling to the mother. If the medical condition can be resolved by abortion, I'd say that'd qualify.
If the claimed condition cannot be resolved by abortion, I'd say not.
There is a wealth of medical research and obstetrical history on which to base such decisions.
But, if you have a problem with that one...fine, outlaw it too and just let the chips fall where they may.
That'd be great...think we can eliminate all the other abortions and have this argument?
Not really, I just have more realistic expectations about the feasibility of preventing the deaths of those children.
Banning abortion does not achieve the desired end, and creates many more problems along the way.
No, apparently it's okay to put a raped woman through the unimaginable torture not just from the act of rape itself, but to physically and emotionally prolong her abuse by making her carry the result of something that was not consentual and will very likely damage her for the rest of her life.
And that's not even considering if that woman was married, and what that would very likely do to her relationship.
Not all killing is murder.Unless it was murder.
The man helped cause the pregnancy, which the woman must live with for 9 months. Should he be required to care for her for the duration of the pregnancy? Help compensate for any work missed?No, it's a matter of natural selection. If a man were capable of being pregnant, I'd feel the same way. And, if the man causes the abortion, he's just as guilty.
Equality.I don't follow.
Not really, I just have more realistic expectations about the feasibility of preventing the deaths of those children.Apparently, I place a higher value on the life of an innocent child.
Banning abortion does not achieve the desired end, and creates many more problems along the way.
Really?
How many abortions were there before Roe v. Wade? After?
What was the mortality rate of mother's receiving abortions (legal or illegal) prior to Roe v. Wade? After?
I think you'd be surprised at the exponential increase in abortions and the relatively stable mortality rate. I'll dig those numbers up again -- unless you find them first.
But, compared to so-called back alley abortions which, I concede, resulted in a higher mortality rate for the mother than do "professional" abortions, the exponential increase in the procedure conducted in clinics has resulted in an exponential rise in complications resulting in death in numbers that rival those that occurred due to unsafe abortion procedures.
All medical procedures have a mortality rate. And, one that is used millions of times per year has a pretty significant one.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions