Bucks Fire Mike Budenholzer

[Drom John]

Name 4 -5 centers better then Ayton

1) Mitc Robinson was the best FA center last year.

2) Flipping your question; the only centers who played worse than Ayton this year with minimum 1133 minutes played, and note that they are all PF/C.

26. Jakob Poeltl
34. Zach Collins

48. Deandre Ayton
49. Trendon Watford
50. John Collins
51. Marcus Morris
52. P.J. Washington
53. Jalen Smith
54. Bol Bol
55. Jabari Smith

[Ariel]

B-but Jak is a top 10 center

I'd take over Poeltl right now and for the future:
Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Myles Turner
Jarrett Allen
Kessler (even right now he's up there)

I wouldn't take over Poeltl:
Ayton (overrated and HORRENDOUS contract)
Robert Williams (injuries)
Steven Adams
Capela
Mitc Robinson
Looney
Zubac
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Nurkic
Landale

Could be taken over Poeltl right now depending on the system:
Brook Lopez (effective in a very specific role)
Porzingis (not true C)

Could MAYBE be taken over Poeltl if only concerned with upside:
Mark Williams
Duren

[TD 21]

I'd take over Poeltl right now and for the future:
Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Myles Turner
Jarrett Allen
Kessler (even right now he's up there)

I wouldn't take over Poeltl:
Ayton (overrated and HORRENDOUS contract)
Robert Williams (injuries)
Steven Adams
Capela
Mitc Robinson
Looney
Zubac
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Nurkic
Landale

Could be taken over Poeltl right now depending on the system:
Brook Lopez (effective in a very specific role)
Porzingis (not true C)

Could MAYBE be taken over Poeltl if only concerned with upside:
Mark Williams
Duren

Ayton has a higher ceiling than Poeltl when he's not pouting (see '21), but fair enough.

Davis and Sabonis are C's and they're no longer even playing next to other bigs.

Towns, Jackson Jr., Mobley and Horford are at times, but they're also C's.

Why mention Landale but not Carter Jr., Claxton or Sengun?

[Ariel]

Ayton has a higher ceiling than Poeltl when he's not pouting (see '21), but fair enough.

Davis and Sabonis are C's and they're no longer even playing next to other bigs.

Towns, Jackson Jr., Mobley and Horford are at times, but they're also C's.

Why mention Landale but not Carter Jr., Claxton or Sengun?

I mentioned full time C. Towns, Jackson Jr, Mobley and Horford CAN play center but DON'T USUALLY do so (Gobert, Adams, Allen and Robert Williams do). So I don't see them as straight up, fair comparison for Poeltl. Anthony Davis and Sabonis are somewhere in between, but could be considered true centers.
Sengun isn't a natural center either, but could be included. the Only omission would be Carter Jr. and Claxton, which would be below Poeltl but with potential to surpass him. Landale was included because he outplayed Ayton more than anything, but it wasn't supposed to include every center in the league, mainly starting caliber centers of some relevance. Point remains, Poeltl is an ABOVE AVERAGE starting center right now.

[TD 21]

I mentioned full time C. Towns, Jackson Jr, Mobley and Horford CAN play center but DON'T USUALLY do so (Gobert, Adams, Allen and Robert Williams do). So I don't see them as straight up, fair comparison for Poeltl. Anthony Davis and Sabonis are somewhere in between, but could be considered true centers.
Sengun isn't a natural center either, but could be included. the Only omission would be Carter Jr. and Claxton, which would be below Poeltl but with potential to surpass him. Landale was included because he outplayed Ayton more than anything, but it wasn't supposed to include every center in the league, mainly starting caliber centers of some relevance. Point remains, Poeltl is an ABOVE AVERAGE starting center right now.

I don't see that, but either way, as I said, Davis and Sabonis are now full time C's (Horford mostly has been this season again too) and why base it on current roster context rather than the NBA ecosystem as a whole? Being able to play some next to another C doesn't make them PF's.

Sengun is clearly a C in today's game (can't stretch the floor and struggles defending in space) and I mentioned those three omissions in comparison to Landale for the point you just made.

[Ariel]

I don't see that, but either way, as I said, Davis and Sabonis are now full time C's (Horford mostly has been this season again too) and why base it on current roster context rather than the NBA ecosystem as a whole? Being able to play some next to another C doesn't make them PF's.

Sengun is clearly a C in today's game (can't stretch the floor and struggles defending in space) and I mentioned those three omissions in comparison to Landale for the point you just made.

Horford was a C when Robert Williams went out due to injury, when they're both together he plays PF. Sabonis played alongisde Myles Turner many years, Anthony Davis also played alongside many other centers, he's not a full time C (even if for the mere fact that he can't stand the punishment to long). Sengun struggles defending period, not just on the perimeter. Again, this is nitpicking, the point was to make a general, off the top of my head ranking of Poeltl among the NBA centers. None of that changes the conclusion that he's comfortably above average, and arguably (even if borderline) top 10, even with Davis and Sabonis included.

[TD 21]

Horford was a C when Robert Williams went out due to injury, when they're both together he plays PF. Sabonis played alongisde Myles Turner many years, Anthony Davis also played alongside many other centers, he's not a full time C (even if for the mere fact that he can't stand the punishment to long). Sengun struggles defending period, not just on the perimeter. Again, this is nitpicking, the point was to make a general, off the top of my head ranking of Poeltl among the NBA centers. None of that changes the conclusion that he's comfortably above average, and arguably (even if borderline) top 10, even with Davis and Sabonis included.

Again, you're going context dependent, which absolutely changes that conclusion because other than the last group I mentioned, they're all better than him, either clearly so or due to malleability/upside.