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  1. #151
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Actually, it's very new school and it's become increasingly difficult to play small guards in the playoffs unless they're superstars or stars offensively.
    Eh, this conversation has the potential to get into the weeds about where the cut off is for a small guard and a star. Like is Marcus Smart a small guard? Was Kyle Lowry a "star" in 2023? The truth is that every recent Finals matchup saw small guards in the rotation, and depending on the cut-off is at least one of the competing teams each year a small-guard PG who wasn't an offensive star. It doesn't seem that an admittedly cursory look at the data actually bears out that small guards have becoming particularly unplayable by winning teams. Insofar as it's a "new" thing, it's such as a buzzword, just like "positionless basketball", "AI" "block chain" and the like. In the sense I meant it, focusing on mismatches and trying to isolate weak defenders is extremely old school.

    Obviously, this team is nowhere near the point of having to concern themselves with that though, but "positioning" can't always cover up for size. If Jones gets switched onto a Doncic, for example, the Spurs defense will be compromised.
    You can account for a guy not having a favorable switch. If anything, if the smaller guy is a good defender, then he's going to take away the things he can take away, and the help will be there for the things he can't. That's far easier than putting a guy like Sochan on him and losing the possession anyway. Mismatches have been happening forever now. I assume you'd always want to know your guy can hold up in that situation. But it's also been established long enough to know size only has so much effect on a man's ability to score. There's a reason why the scoring leaderboard isn't filled with guys who are big for their position. I don't even know if it's been established that Doncic scores more easily on smaller players.

    Parker always had arguably the GOAT anchor/team defender behind him in Duncan, an underrated team defender in Ginobili and other all time - very good defenders like Robinson, Bowen, S bag, Green and Splitter at various points.
    A) Jones has a guy with DPOY potential behind him. If the rest of the Spurs are worse defenders despite them being taller, that's not a reason to stop playing him. It's a sign that the wing defense is not sufficient.
    b) Yet, Parker himself held up well despite looking like he was the failure point of the lineup. That he potentially was the worst defender on the floor doesn't negate that. Jones isn't the worst defender on the floor, so it teams keep testing one of the better defenders on the team instead of testing the worse ones, that doesn't seem like a bad thing.

  2. #152
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Branham needs something other than junk game. He only looks comfortable dribbling into a midrange pullup

    his point of attack defense has looked better to my eye. Haven’t paid much attention to him as an off ball defender though

  3. #153
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Can we please stop playing Sochan as PG? He’s not good at it. It’s not his fault. And even 82 games from now he won’t be good at it. Can we please make him a secondary creator instead of the initial one? It’s painful to watch

  4. #154
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Can we please stop playing Sochan as PG? He’s not good at it. It’s not his fault. And even 82 games from now he won’t be good at it. Can we please make him a secondary creator instead of the initial one? It’s painful to watch
    Shut up. Jesus Christ.

  5. #155
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    Can we please stop playing Sochan as PG? He’s not good at it. It’s not his fault. And even 82 games from now he won’t be good at it. Can we please make him a secondary creator instead of the initial one? It’s painful to watch
    Seriously

  6. #156
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Shut up. Jesus Christ.
    I’m not talking. So technically I’m not making a sound. It’s your own voice reading that you are telling to shut up. It’s weird stuff. Get some help.

    also you have an unobstructed view of how ty Sochan is at point and how right I am about it. That’s what’s really angering you. In January you will be even more annoyed when Sochan is benched.

  7. #157
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    Eh, this conversation has the potential to get into the weeds about where the cut off is for a small guard and a star. Like is Marcus Smart a small guard? Was Kyle Lowry a "star" in 2023? The truth is that every recent Finals matchup saw small guards in the rotation, and depending on the cut-off is at least one of the competing teams each year a small-guard PG who wasn't an offensive star.
    I'll answer the examples literally to provide context: Smart is not a small guard. Small doesn't necessarily equal short, it's more so physically weak/lacking switch ability. Lowry wasn't even close to a star in '23, but he's the rare short guard stout enough to fit the Smart description.

    You can get by with one in the rotation, but if they're a non superstar/star, usually their role ends up diminished as the series goes on.

    You can account for a guy not having a favorable switch. If anything, if the smaller guy is a good defender, then he's going to take away the things he can take away, and the help will be there for the things he can't.
    Emergency (on the catch) help, especially with a tall, elite passer, is exactly what I said: Virtually guaranteed to end in a high quality look.

    Jones isn't the worst defender on the floor, so it teams keep testing one of the better defenders on the team instead of testing the worse ones, that doesn't seem like a bad thing.
    It'll be a bad thing if it's a sizable p-n-r creator, but I'm not advocating they stop playing Jones. I'm just saying, given the potential path to championship contention down the line, if the eventual PG is a small guard, they need to be an offensive superstar/star and I believe the front office will have the same mindset.

  8. #158
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Can we please stop playing Sochan as PG? He’s not good at it. It’s not his fault. And even 82 games from now he won’t be good at it. Can we please make him a secondary creator instead of the initial one? It’s painful to watch

    Sochan is penciled in as the point guard, but there’s not any serious effort to use him as an actual point guard. He dribbles the ball up, sometimes, and immediately passes. No PG development is going on with him.

    Why the heck would you want Sochan as a “secondary creator” whatever that is? What’s wrong with him being a forward? Is “forward” not pompously rhetorical enough?

  9. #159
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    I hope you guys have more patience with your children.

  10. #160
    SA fan since 03 playoffs spursparker9's Avatar
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    8) Wembanyama looks better playing next to Tre Jones — a pure point guard — than Jeremy Sochan, who is learning on the job. In Sunday's
    game, when Wembanyama was -14 on the night, but he was +7 in the minutes with Young (boosted by a +8 early in the fourth quarter against the Clippers reserves at the start of garbage time).

    It's easy to see why Popovich wants to give Sochan a chance to learn the point guard role and see if he can do it — his size and athleticism would make him a force — but there is a long way for Sochan to go and are moments you can feel Wembanyama's frustration.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/ten-victor-...051629859.html

  11. #161
    Make a trade steal
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    I hope you guys have more patience with your children.
    Don't have children

  12. #162
    Make a trade steal
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    8) Wembanyama looks better playing next to Tre Jones — a pure point guard — than Jeremy Sochan, who is learning on the job. In Sunday's
    game, when Wembanyama was -14 on the night, but he was +7 in the minutes with Young (boosted by a +8 early in the fourth quarter against the Clippers reserves at the start of garbage time).

    It's easy to see why Popovich wants to give Sochan a chance to learn the point guard role and see if he can do it — his size and athleticism would make him a force — but there is a long way for Sochan to go and are moments you can feel Wembanyama's frustration.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/ten-victor-...051629859.html
    He doesn't have the pg skills or even a pg's athleticism.

  13. #163
    Work in Progress Fireball's Avatar
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    I really doubt Jeremy is having fun tbh

  14. #164
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Starting to tentatively agree with OP’s premise.

    It’s not that Jeremy couldn’t do it, or that our defense does not benefit from it. Is it the right coaching decision to get us — particularly Wemby - off to a good start in games?

    That said, no one played well tonight. It was sloppy on all ends, so maybe this game is mostly an INC grade on the Sochan 1 experiment.

  15. #165
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    Sochan is not agile enough or shoot well enough to be pg.

    He needs to be traded instead of trying to fit him into a position that's not suited to his style of play.

    Sochan is best at pf and if the Spurs want to play Wemby there that leaves Sochan playing positions that aren't best for him.

  16. #166
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    Obviously.

  17. #167
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Either way we aren’t competing for much this year. Tre Jones short term is absolutely the answer. Longer term this is all probably a rounding error in a meaningless season.

    Sochan at point probably nets us a top 5 pick again. Just don’t want to frustrate Wemby out the gate but it is clear they are attempting to play the long game best they think. That is the real debate here.

  18. #168
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    Either way we aren’t competing for much this year. Tre Jones short term is absolutely the answer. Longer term this is all probably a rounding error in a meaningless season.

    Sochan at point probably nets us a top 5 pick again. Just don’t want to frustrate Wemby out the gate but it is clear they are attempting to play the long game best they think. That is the real debate here.
    A top 5 pick and a top pg prospect would be a win for the long game.

  19. #169
    Why not?
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    A top 5 pick and a top pg prospect would be a win for the long game.
    Not if it alienates the future of the franchise. Maybe Wemby is more patient than I think, but I'd be frustrated if my coaches were jeopardizing my development as the star of the team to develop someone else into a role they're clearly not suited for.

  20. #170
    Veteran Russo21's Avatar
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    Sochan is not agile enough or shoot well enough to be pg.

    He needs to be traded instead of trying to fit him into a position that's not suited to his style of play.

    Sochan is best at pf and if the Spurs want to play Wemby there that leaves Sochan playing positions that aren't best for him.
    And can't pass well enough, can't dribble well enough. There's not much he's good at. Needs to be traded along with KJ who is annoying as f

  21. #171
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    No playmaking. No shot creation. No rebounding. No defensive impact.


  22. #172
    Club Rookie of The Year DJR210's Avatar
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    I've seen enough of the experiment

  23. #173
    Fan Since 93 SayTown's Avatar
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    The Tank PT 2

  24. #174
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    Sochan is not agile enough or shoot well enough to be pg.

    He needs to be traded instead of trying to fit him into a position that's not suited to his style of play.

    Sochan is best at pf and if the Spurs want to play Wemby there that leaves Sochan playing positions that aren't best for him.
    He can't even dribble penetrate... An extremely KEY thing any PG needs to do to break down the offense... No one in our starting 5 is very good at that... They're all more secondary penetrators

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