Fox is a good player but not sure he's the player I'd blow my load on. If Spurs manage to get a legit #2 first, Fox is the kinda guy you bring in. But as it stands, I don't think he's putting us in contention or anything so imo better to just see how Castle develops over the next couple of years before bringing in a new PG
I think that the idea with Fox would be playing him together with Castle.
It looks like the era of traditional shooting guards is behind us, every team has multiple perimeter creators, scorers who can't create aren't as valued unless they're also very good defenders.
it depends on the trade package but trae is a really good player
Is castle a PG or more a combo guard that main should be SG and can play some point as needed ? His shooting has improved already this year which hopefully projects to long term improvement as while with his shooting stats
He’s lost a lot of value with the new freer defense guidelines. That drop in FTAs didn’t happen accidentally. Throw in far worse shooting, added to his already crap defense, and it’s a wonder no teams are interested. If they were,he’d be gone.
As for the Price, ATL has been pretty firm that we’re not getting him for less than all of their picks back, which is a trade call hangup for me.
After winning their own Dejounte trade, they may have lowered the threshold for a Trae trade. We'll see.
I actually don’t think we will see. With his drop in offensive stats, his only drawing card, most teams have had their interest wane, and that probably includes us.
If we were starting CP3 and Fox together, you'd almost by necessity need to start Sochan and Barnes as the wings, IMO. A CP3/Fox/Vassell trio would get destroyed, I suspect. I think a CP3/Fox backcourt also limits Castles ability to play the situational SF. CP3/Fox/Castle/Sochan is a non-starter, and CP3/Fox/Castle/Barnes probably still doesn't work because of a lack of shooting. Would be tough to make it work if you still have CP3, Devin, Castle and Jeremy to fit in, which is another reason I wouldn't make this move now. It might make more sense in the summer when the CP3 situation works itself out by him potentially retiring.
One possible solution is that you move CP3, but I don't think they'd do that. CP3 has been an invaluable addition and even if they have an agreement to move him to a contender at the deadline, by getting Fox the Spurs have become that playoff contender (though not a legit le contender). I think both sides would kind of view it as doing CP3 dirty to dump him at that point (and I'm not sure that many legit contenders want or need CP3 anyway).
First, Fox was measured before his draft, his official measurements were:
Height without shoes: 6' 2''
Height with shoes: 6' 3.25''
Standing reach: 8' 4''
Weight: 169.6 lbs
Wingspan: 6' 6.5''
Vecenie had a quite interesting podcast about Fox. For him, Rockets are the team that should try the most to get him. What he is hearing about Spurs is that Klutch has tried for quite some time to put a guard in SA with Wembanyama.
Link below start at that tidbit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKE4V09nL0c&t=1800s
Huerter's contract isn't that bad. He's a much more useful player than Collins, for example. While your suggestion might be what's the best move for the Spurs, I put a near zero possibility of SAC agreeing to that.
In reality, Houston is likely the better trading partner for SAC for Fox anyway. They can return picks and more young talent (Spurs fans don't want to give up any young talent, which is going to be a problem). SAC should probably also look for a total tear down by moving Sabonis and DeRozan as well, but I doubt they'll do that - so they'll attempt a soft reconfiguring as opposed to a total tear down, and it will probably just mean another decade of mediocre to poor results (hopefully through 20131)
I just tried to find some more comparison pictures and he's obviously grown since those draft measurements were taken.
You can't tell me Dejounte has 2 inches on Fox.
He's legit 6'4 with great wingspan, size is definitely not an issue.
Not difficult to be more useful than the worst player in the league.
Huerter is a Keldon level player, if not worse.
It's Rich Paul we're talking about, he'll want to pair him with Wemby.While your suggestion might be what's the best move for the Spurs, I put a near zero possibility of SAC agreeing to that.
In reality, Houston is likely the better trading partner for SAC for Fox anyway. They can return picks and more young talent (Spurs fans don't want to give up any young talent, which is going to be a problem). SAC should probably also look for a total tear down by moving Sabonis and DeRozan as well, but I doubt they'll do that - so they'll attempt a soft reconfiguring as opposed to a total tear down, and it will probably just mean another decade of mediocre to poor results (hopefully through 20131)
Going from Sabonis to Sengun would just be more of the same, I doubt Fox wants to play with another big who can't defend the rim at all.
Watching this Vecine suggestion, what the is he smoking?
Whitmore and Sheppard are both out of the rotation in Houston, Adams and Jeff Green are washed veterans, HOU picks would be low value and '25 PHX pick isn't good, either.
Just Devin by himself is almost worth more than that package.
Last edited by LeBowen; 12-23-2024 at 02:00 PM.
I don't think we'll see, because ATL isn't looking to move Trae and Trae isn't looking to get out. By all appearances both sides appear happy with where they are at.
A CP3/Fox back court sounds truly terrible to me, even though CP3 obviously isn't in the long term plans, and moving Castle to SF pretty much negates his size advantage, so you'd have an undersized PG in CP3, an undersized SG in Fox, and Castle out of position. I think this is the worst approach for a team with Wemby... I dream about a historically good D, not one where three positions are compromised because we think Victor can cover any and all shortcomings. Atlanta just moved on from this same mistake, moving Dejounte from PG to SG, where he lost his size advantage to become a completely average sized defender instead of an unusually lengthy one. Undersized back courts are such a massive built in issue to overcome, and the possibility of them producing championships is so statistically tiny that i just don't see the point in even investigating that approach.
I agree he's about a Keldon level player. It probably wouldn't cost a FRP to get off Keldon, and Keldon's contract is significantly worse.
It wouldn't cost SAC an FRP to get off Huerter.
I agree - which is a big part of why I wouldn't do this now. But I could definitely see PATFO rolling out CP3/Fox lineups just like they are cramming CP3/Tre lineups down our throat right now.
Sometimes you really let your Spurs-Colored Glasses get the best of you, tbh.
Funniest thing is when Bulls fans were clowning on the Spurs for letting them have DeRozan and all I could say was man I seen this hot start to the season crap with him before man, wait until Feb-March when the games start mattering. Sac didn't even get the early season honeymoon out of it though.
If we trade Devin and Tre, it would be a 3 man guard rotation.
CP3/Fox/Castle with any combination being able to play together. Champagnie would also get some SG minutes if needed.
CP3/Fox/Jeremy/Barnes/Wemby
Castle/Champ/Keldon/Bassey
That's a reasonable 9 man rotation. The next move would be to upgrade Collins into a legit backup big.
Upgrade Keldon into a legit starting wing in the summer. If Castle improves enough that wing starts in place of Jeremy and Castle starts in place of CP3.
Yeah so long as you have CP3, then one of Castle or Vassell has to go (I'd keep Castle of the two). The problem is that CP3 isn't a long term solution either. Fox/Castle/Vassell would actually be a really nice long-term 3-man guard lineup in and of itself, but I personally don't find it very realistic to get Fox without SAC demanding one of them. Sochan doesn't fit with Derozan/Murray/Sabonis either so I don't think it's a matter of swapping him into the trade. Spurs could always just go super-pick heavy and involve a third team to get SAC the promising young player their fans seem to insist on as part of the deal (which makes sense from their POV given that trading Fox doesn't take them in and of itself)
I think PATFO still holds to their principles even at the cost of losing out on a player.
There's no way they trade Castle a few months into his rookie season after all the scouting they did.
Kings also aren't a well-ran franchise, while Castle has upside who's to guarantee he develops. Sabonis is 28 and they'll want to keep competing with him.
Devin's fairly team friendly deal just started, he'd instantly be Kings' best floor spacer and if it's Fox+Huerter for Devin+Tre it would be a PG+SG from either side.
Then they could use those picks to get another player or two.
I think they'd want Castle only if they're trading everyone away and starting a full rebuild, which doesn't look likely.
They finally got back into the playoff picture and the team is generating money, that's all their ownership cares for.
Don't most of the Fox/Spurs rumors have the trade happening this summer rather than at this season's deadline? If so, the whole CP3/Fox thing won't be a problem because CP3 will be a free agent. The Spurs can tell him he's welcome to stick around if he's willing to come off the bench, and if not then thanks for a great season and good luck wherever you go.
I think that's absolutely correct. From the SAC point of view, I don't see them going total blow it up. It would be too painful to try and move Fox, Sabonis, Derozan and Monk. At that point they might as well move Murray as well. I'm not sure we've ever see a firesale so significant in a short amount of time. Gobert/Mitc and Kyrie/KD probably the closest examples but that was only two guys... can you think of anything closer?
So if we put our SAC glasses on and think about potential destinations that can deliver draft capital and promising young players (going to us this :
- OKC - gotta assume they are out. They have no need for Fox and they certainly aren't giving up JWill or Chet. They have some other young players they could piece together, but this will hamper their ability to keep their big 3.
- SA - Only Devin or Steph make sense. A Derozan/Sochan/Sabonis lineup would be completely unworkable... it's gross even thinking about it... only Gregg Popovich would try something so insulting.
- BKN - Doesn't fit their timeline at all and don't really have a player that makes sense for SAC. Cam Thomas is the only one who remotely fits but he'd be a major downgrade from Fox
- UTA - Doesn't fit their timeline either, unless they made a couple of other moves. Fox + Lauri would be an interesting duo. Keyonte George + Cody Williams + multiple FRPs might make sense... but I don't think Utah is ready to do this.
- HOU - Lots of young players to choose from, and draft capital. Yeah, HOU aren't the juiciest (but neither are SA's own), but PHX27 is nice, and they also have the two best of PHX29, DAL29 and their own. HOU27 with BKN swap rights might be their best trade chip.
- NOP - this could be a dark horse? Zion + CJ + Picks for Fox + Monk + Huerter works. I would want zero part of Zion, but he could be enticing risk for a GM with nothing to lose.
- ORL? Fox would be an interesting backcourt pairing with Suggs. Not sure if Orlando has enough interesting talent to try and keep Suggs/Paolo/Franz though... they'd probably have to lose Suggs. Could be interesting.
- DET? At some point the Pistons gotta try something right? They were rumored to be interested in Lavine last year.
I wanted to Trae Young but those debates will end up at a draw as both sides significantly over valued their preferred assets.
Now trading some of the Hawks picks for Lauri is whole different story.
I'd guess that the Kings would be interested in Vassell most, as I don't think they want a tear down completely, and their spacing issues with Murray forgetting how to shoot / DeMar / Sabonis mean that Sochan and Castle would fit badly.
I wonder about something like Vassell and Tre Jones to the Kings, return their swap rights and add a 2025 first from us or Atlanta, a bunch of seconds to give the Kings more assets (The Charlotte first / 2 seconds, some others), Keldon and the Bulls pick to the Bulls, Coby White to the Kings, Huerter and Fox to SA.
I think the Bulls would accept (can outright tank easily, but the Bulls Ownership has historically been a push to mediocrity group), Spurs would be better, fits the type of deal I'd guess the Kings would want. Exact picks are probably a little light, but the structure makes sense to me.
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