Phoenix Suns: Take a Step Back

[I H8 Mavs Fans]

You know what I believe? I believe this site blows, as does Spursreport. Everyone on here is a buch of whiney little es. Everyone from the pathetic Spurs fans refusing to accept that their team just got beat, spouting conspiracy theories about ratings and Mark Cuban's influence, to the Pistons fans whom all season participated in this SICKENING love-affair with the Spurs fans about their predestined rematch, to the absolutely pitiful trolling Mav fans. And now I make an honest attempt to actually talk some basketball with some fellow fans here, and be polite in doing so, and I get this condescending bull .

Well you, and this forum. There's nothing more pathetic than fans ing about excuses for why their team didn't win, and no excuse is more laughable and downright petty than the officiating. Add the conspiracy theories to boot, and you have a bunch of ing whiney es that the 3 time NBA champions should be ashamed to call their fans. Again, Spurs fans of all people should be the ones who know this better than anyone, considering the "asterisk" bull the Spurs had to put up with after their first championship. It's even more infantile than the idiot Mav fans I've had to deal with ing about how they would've won in 03 if Dirk hadn't gone down.

excuses. They're bull . Scoreboard, es.

I wish all Mav fans were like this guy bravo my good sir, and enjoy DBB.com or mavtalk, whichever little weiner board you post at.

[SirChaz]

You know what I believe? I believe this site blows, as does Spursreport. Everyone on here is a buch of whiney little es. Everyone from the pathetic Spurs fans refusing to accept that their team just got beat, spouting conspiracy theories about ratings and Mark Cuban's influence, to the Pistons fans whom all season participated in this SICKENING love-affair with the Spurs fans about their predestined rematch, to the absolutely pitiful trolling Mav fans. And now I make an honest attempt to actually talk some basketball with some fellow fans here, and be polite in doing so, and I get this condescending bull .

Well you, and this forum. There's nothing more pathetic than fans ing about excuses for why their team didn't win, and no excuse is more laughable and downright petty than the officiating. Add the conspiracy theories to boot, and you have a bunch of ing whiney es that the 3 time NBA champions should be ashamed to call their fans. Again, Spurs fans of all people should be the ones who know this better than anyone, considering the "asterisk" bull the Spurs had to put up with after their first championship. It's even more infantile than the idiot Mav fans I've had to deal with ing about how they would've won in 03 if Dirk hadn't gone down.

excuses. They're bull . Scoreboard, es.

[Shank]

He's right about the ' you' part, you know.

[pussyface]

these suns fans have conclusively proven that beating the la teams is a triumph. bravo! anyone who disagrees with this is just arguing for the sake of arguing. the issue is entirely one sided.

[JMarkJohns]

these suns fans have conclusively proven that beating the la teams is a triumph. bravo! anyone who disagrees with this is just arguing for the sake of arguing. the issue is entirely one sided.

You play who ya got.
You beat who ya play.
You never allow oneself to be in the position where one or two bad calls can blow your game.

What part of this do you fail to grasp?

No one is taking anything away from the Mavs for beating a pretty futile team in Memphis or for even beating an undermanned and undersized team in Phoenix.

You won. Just as the Suns did for the first two rounds. Both teams advanced. That's really all there is to it.

Quit ing.

[MissAllThat]

Quit ing.

Asking a Mavs fan to quit ing is like asking Shaq to learn to consistently shoot over 70% from the free throw line. Its just not going to happen, but I guess its nice to keep hoping.

[pussyface]

according to jmark, the only single peice of relevent information that can be taken away from the Suns postseason is that they finished in the final four.

to him, it is inconceivable that any other lesson could be gleaned by examining anything more in depth...

you suggest that all conference finals runs are inherently created equal because teams "played the teams they played" and "advanced".

do you think this might be a slight oversimplification?
would beating kobe's 06 lakers in 7 be an equal accomplishment to beating jordan's 90's bulls in 4 because all that matters is "advancing", or would one series win be more impressive/indicative of greatness than the other?
Consider this a rhetorical question, because I don't think there is any chance you are going to honestly consider this inquiry; your going to spout off about something irrelevent.

[JMarkJohns]

do you think this might be a slight oversimplification?
would beating kobe's 06 lakers in 7 be an equal accomplishment to beating jordan's 90's bulls in 4 because all that matters is "advancing", or would one series win be more impressive/indicative of greatness than the other?
Consider this a rhetorical question, because I don't think there is any chance you are going to honestly consider this inquiry; your going to spout off about something irrelevent.

What the are you even talking about? Every playoff team advances because of a few favorable matchups, whether it be favorable in player or in record.

Do you think Jordan's or Magic's or Bird's teams never played any lesser teams en route to the le? You're fooling yourself.

Do I think a sweep over Jordan's Bulls is more impressive than a seven-game win over Kobe's Lakers? Of course, but where is the logic in this question? They are playing styles and decades apart.

The question you should have posed is "do I think the Mavs seven-game win over the Spurs is more impressive than the Suns seven-game win over the Clippers". Of course I do. Beating the defending Champions is always one of the hardest things to do, especially when they are a three-time winner. Suns did what was necessary to overcome a team that posed a lot of matchup problems. Mavericks did what was necessary to overcome a team that has plagued them for a number of years.

Of course the latter is the more impressive feat. Doesn't mean the prior isn't impressive when everything is taken into account. Were the Clippers better than the Spurs? No. Were they as tough a matchup as the Spurs? For the Mavs, probably not. For the undersized Suns, maybe so.

However, will I admit that a first-round sweep over Memphis is more impressive than come from behind, seven-game win over the Lakers? Not really. To me, neither the Grizzlies or the Lakers were particularly good teams. They were solid clubs with good records and one or two good players. Each had flaws that could be easily exploited. Where being impressed with the Suns factors in is that they were down and were counted out. They shouldn't have come back, but did. They shouldn't have been able to win in LA without Raja Bell, but did. They had nothing going for them, had very few bounces go their way, yet overcame. Rising up to the challenge is far more impressive than smoking a gimme team.

Will I admit the Mavericks trip has been more impressive? Of course. They won every series on the road. That shows they have finally figured out how to close out games and series. They whooped a team they should have, beat a team they shouldn't have and did what was needed against a team that has recently given them fits. They did a of job and I have stated such on many an occasion in many a thread.

However, the extent to which one is impressed with Dallas' success has absolutely nothing to do with the extent one should be impressed with the Suns', so again, I fail to see your logic or even your need to know.

[pussyface]

You play who ya got.
You beat who ya play.
You won. Just as the Suns did for the first two rounds. Both teams advanced. That's really all there is to it.

Quit ing.

this rudimentary/grossly oversimplified afront to logic is what inspired my last post. you tried using this line of reasoning to suggest that it really doesn't matter who you played or how many games it took to beat them as long as you "advance," and that is why I invoked Jordan's Bulls.

All conference final runs are not created equal...that's my point, and one that you apparently agree with, although it seems to contradict your last post on page 6.

[pussyface]

when I make pertinent points that illustrate serious flaws in your logic, you unfailingly respond with something irrelevent using the rouse that you don't understand the relevance of where I'm coming from.

I have concluded that this is not because you are an idiot and are incapable of connecting the dots...I think it is because in this context, you are incapable of being intellectually honest with yourself. you are a classic narcicist.

[Trainwreck2100]

when I make pertinent points that illustrate serious flaws in your logic, you unfailingly respond with something irrelevent using the rouse that you don't understand the relevance of where I'm coming from.

I have concluded that this is not because you are an idiot and are incapable of connecting the dots...I think it is because in this context, you are incapable of being intellectually honest with yourself. you are a classic narcicist.

Actually it's cause nobody knows what the you are saying.

[MadDog73]

Look, no rational person expected the Suns to go as far as they did.

The fact they beat the Lakers and Clippers is nothing to sneeze at... I had them losing to both those teams.

Of course, I had the Spurs beating the Mavs, and the Pistons beating the Heat, so I was way off this year.

Hmm, I guess you could argue the Pistons were a mirage, too, based on your logic (Piston opponents were weak, too). Good luck with that...

[pussyface]

i wouldnt say that they were a mirage the way the suns were, but playing as they were during the playoffs, like the suns, was never going too get them a le this year.

also, they didnt struggle with their atrocious first round opponent thw way phx did (5 games versus 7)

I cant imagine what in your analysis led you to believe that the Lakers would/should beat the Suns in a 7 game series.

going into the playoffs, phx was considered a second tier contender/"scary" team while LA was laughed off as a one-man show that shot its load just by qualifyinh for the postseason.

[pussyface]

another major problem with groupthink counterarguments: being an overacheiving team does not mean that a team is a serious contender.

i have never argued that they didnt overacheive or that their fans shouldnt be proud or whatever.

[MadDog73]

i wouldnt say that they were a mirage the way the suns were, but playing as they were during the playoffs, like the suns, was never going too get them a le this year.

also, they didnt struggle with their atrocious first round opponent thw way phx did (5 games versus 7)

Hmph. Lakers weren't that bad, a a lot better than the Bucks in any case.

In any case, who cares about struggle? Didn't the Mavs let some team come back after a 3-0 lead, and tie it 3-3 one year? WTF was that about?

Crazy happens in basketball. The Suns were a good team, not as good as the Spurs or Mavs obviously, but not as bad as the Grizzlies, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Nuggets, Wizards, or Bulls.

What the , since we're going by who took who to 7 games, the Best team is: The Heat (didn't go to seven games with anybody)

, no point playing the Finals, hand the Heat the trophy, they're obviously the best.

If your whole argument is that the Spurs/Mavs should have been the WCF: Duh. Seedings were screwed up. But to say the Suns didn't even deserve to be there is going too far.

[pussyface]

"Hmph. Lakers weren't that bad, a a lot better than the Bucks in any case.

In any case, who cares about struggle? Didn't the Mavs let some team come back after a 3-0 lead, and tie it 3-3 one year? WTF was that about?"

first point is debatable...couple of .500 teams...bucks have better players/lakers of course have best player...
at any rate, it is inconceivable to me that a real le contender (sa/dal) could have been pushed to 7 games by that Lakers team.

As for the Mavs blowing that 3-0 lead to win in 7, i can explain it this way; that mavs team was not a serious contender and was never going to win a le. its not a coincidence they went out in the next round that year. this is consistent with my stance that the phoenix suns of this year, like the Nellie Mavs of the past few years, aren't to be taken all that seriously as le threats.
Blowing a 3-0 lead is a pretty clear indication that something ain't right... its not a coincidence that no champ has ever let a team force a game 7 when leading 3-0.

[pussyface]

What the , since we're going by who took who to 7 games, the Best team is: The Heat (didn't go to seven games with anybody)

, no point playing the Finals, hand the Heat the trophy, they're obviously the best.
screwed up. But to say the Suns didn't even deserve to be there is going too far
If your whole argument is that the Spurs/Mavs should have been the WCF: Duh. Seedings were .

this is one giant stretch. i feel okay about the Mavs going 7 with the Spurs because they were the two best teams in the league this year. this whole thread has been about looking at things like who yr wins came against to determine yr real place on the totem pole, not disregaurding what teams you play as irrelevent (as you did with your Miami argument).

Also, I never said any such thing as the Suns "didnt even deserve to be there." of course they did, they beat the teams they were matched up with; thats not their fault, but doesnt mean we cant step back and analyze in hindsight to come up with a realistic assesment of what the team really accomplished.

[JMarkJohns]

going into the playoffs, phx was considered a second tier contender/"scary" team while LA was laughed off as a one-man show that shot its load just by qualifyinh for the postseason.

Half the experts out there picked the Lakers over the Suns. So much for all that then.

[pussyface]

Half the experts out there picked the Lakers over the Suns. So much for all that then.

"About the only downer in the NBA right now is that Amare Stoudemire's knee never got better, or else the Suns could be considered serious le threats rather than just a dangerous second-tier contender... "

Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports playoff preview
Ill post you a link.
Maybe this isnt such a cut and dry, "you are 100% right" issue, huh?

[pussyface]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

written on April 20.

[pussyface]

it is funny the extent that Suns' fans are going through to portray themselves as Little Sisters of the Poor. no one really expected the lakers to advance in the 06 playoffs, this is revisionist history.

Going into the postseason, the suns were in fact the LAS VEGAS favorite to come out of their side of the western conference to make it to the conference finals (NOT la/la/or denver).

...find me an article from anyone in the national media that says lakers were anything close to "second tier contenders."

Also, according to Vegas: Lakers were a clearcut underdog to the Suns (...just the facts).

[BillsCarnage]

Asking a Mavs fan to quit ing is like asking Shaq to learn to consistently shoot over 70% from the free throw line. Its just not going to happen, but I guess its nice to keep hoping.

[JMarkJohns]

Tony Mieja, CBSSportsline: Suns in 7
David Dupree, USA TODAY: Lakers in 7
BJ Armstrong, ESPN: Lakers in 6
Greg Anthony, ESPN: Lakers in 6
Scottie Pippen, ESPN: Lakers in 7
Marc Stein, ESPN: Suns in 7
Chris Sheridan, ESPN: Suns in 7
John Hollinger, ESPN: Suns in 7
Stephen A Smith, ESPN: Suns in 7
Scoop Jackson, ESPN: Lakers in 6
Sean Deveney, TSN: Suns in 5
Andrew Bagnato, MSNBC: Lakers in 7
Steve Kerr, Yahoo: Suns in 6

Your guy doesn't even make a prediction. He talks about the Suns as dangerous, but also talks about a potential Clippers/Lakers matchup in the second round.

I think this clearly shows the majority of experts thought the Suns would struggle at best, lose at worst and they did so relatively evenly.

[picnroll]

pussyface is Monty Python's Black Knight of internet jousting. With no arms, no legs left he'll call it a draw.

[BillsCarnage]

pussface, make sure you stick around this board for a while - through the finals and lets even see if you have the cajones to comeback next season as well.