Manu Flop and Don't let ur sons be Spurs fan?

[DarrinS]

I see...so you're making claims about about something you didn't even watch...

and now you're bagging on the quality of the finals since your team is out. Sweet...

I do agree that both games have been sloppy, but it's certainly watchable, especially as a Mavs fan

Hopefully, the basketball gods will be merciful and make this a sweep.

Drawing Charges doesn't exactly equal Flopping.

Manu is at least in the top 3 floppers.

Man, that was pretty harsh. Sure, he flops every now and then, but I've also seen him get steamrolled by some big guys. He's no softy. I'd rather have him take a charge (or a flop, if you prefer), than be a matador (Dirk).

[picnroll]

Manu may be top three in flopping but Dirk is number one in flailing and stumbling through the lane like he got tripped.

[Kori Ellis]

Man, that was pretty harsh. Sure, he flops every now and then, but I've also seen him get steamrolled by some big guys. He's no softy. I'd rather have him take a charge (or a flop, if you prefer), than be a matador (Dirk).

I don't know why the word flopping offends people.

Flopping doesn't mean anything other than he exaggerates (or fabricates) contact to try to get a foul. Manu does it on both ends of the court and he does it constantly. Yes he takes a lot of hard contact too. But to not realize how much he flops is crazy.

[LEONARD]

Dirk is the man...

Cuban is the man...

Terry is going NOWHERE...

Kori rules...

The Mavs / Spurs series was a coin flip. Can't wait for '06-'07...

[Kori Ellis]

Manu may be top three in flopping but Dirk is number one in flailing and stumbling through the lane like he got tripped.

Yeah I already said earlier that Dirk flails quite a bit.

As for Manu and Dirk, they both flop -- a lot.

This season Manu accidentally flopped once when Nazr barely tapped him (Manu's back was to him and thought he was an opponent) and Manu dropped to the ground as if he had been shot. It was hysterical when Manu was laying on the floor and realized it was Nazr.

Dirk flails more than flops. But give him some credit, he flailed his way to the free throw line and onto to the Finals. Manu has been fishing for weeks.

It's just part of what they do. I don't know why fans get so insulted by it. It's just a small part of their games.

[Shank]

Manu may be top three in flopping but Dirk is number one in flailing and stumbling through the lane like he got tripped.

Fine, whatever. It still won't change anything.

[nbascribe]

I don't know why the word flopping offends people.

Flopping doesn't mean anything other than he exaggerates (or fabricates) contact to try to get a foul. Manu does it on both ends of the court and he does it constantly. Yes he takes a lot of hard contact too. But to not realize how much he flops is crazy.

See one of the biggest problems why we ain't in the Finals is because Manu cut his hair too short. He needs to go back to the long hair look so that when he flops, the refs can "see" the fouls.

[strangeweather]

One stat I would love someone to explain:

According to 82games, only 18% of Dirk's shots are from inside. He drew fouls on a whopping 12.3% of his shots.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05DAL12A.HTM

Is he drawing a ton of fouls on jumpshots? Is he drawing fouls more than 50% of the time he goes inside?

Before anyone attacks: I'm not criticizing Dirk. I'm just trying to make sense of this apparently bizarre stat.

[Kori Ellis]

Brad Miller drew fouls on 13.7% of his shots and he's primarily a jumpshooter too. I'm not sure 12.3% of Dirk's is an astronomical number. Is it?

[LEONARD]

One stat I would love someone to explain:

According to 82games, only 18% of Dirk's shots are from inside. He drew fouls on a whopping 12.3% of his shots.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05DAL12A.HTM

Is he drawing a ton of fouls on jumpshots? Is he drawing fouls more than 50% of the time he goes inside?

Before anyone attacks: I'm not criticizing Dirk. I'm just trying to make sense of this apparently bizarre stat.

It's probably a combo of a couple things...

1. His jumpshot is tough to defend and defenders overcommit on pump fakes or overextend and get a piece of him when he's shooting

2. He gets fouled a lot when he drives

Hard to say really...

[picnroll]

Dirk has a lot of Reggie Miller in his game.

[Shank]

How so?

I can't believe I'm wanting an answer from you. Sad.

[picnroll]

I can believe I'm not going to answer you so see if you can figure it out.

[strangeweather]

Brad Miller drew fouls on 13.7% of his shots and he's primarily a jumpshooter too. I'm not sure 12.3% of Dirk's is an astronomical number. Is it?

Miller took 25% of his shots from inside, which is a few more than Dirk, but point taken.

Some other jump shooters, for comparison:

Damon Jones: 93% JS, 5.3% DF
Bowen: 85% JS, 5.3% DF
Terry: 84% JS, 6.2% DF
Stackhouse: 80% JS, 11.2% DF
Szczerbiak: 78% JS, 10.0% DF
Peja: 77% JS, 8.3% DF
Mike Miller: 77% JS, 9.0% DF
Hedo: 76% JS, 10.3% DF
Rip: 75% JS, 8.2% DF

Dirk's ability to get to the line isn't without comparison, but it's still reallly high, relative to this sample.

[td4mvp21]

It's probably a combo of a couple things...

1. His jumpshot is tough to defend and defenders overcommit on pump fakes or overextend and get a piece of him when he's shooting

HEY YOU SAID NO LOGIC.

[Kori Ellis]

Miller took 25% of his shots from inside, which is a few more than Dirk, but point taken.

Some other jump shooters, for comparison:

Damon Jones: 93% JS, 5.3% DF
Bowen: 85% JS, 5.3% DF
Terry: 84% JS, 6.2% DF
Stackhouse: 80% JS, 11.2% DF
Szczerbiak: 78% JS, 10.0% DF
Peja: 77% JS, 8.3% DF
Mike Miller: 77% JS, 9.0% DF
Hedo: 76% JS, 10.3% DF
Rip: 75% JS, 8.2% DF

Dirk's ability to get to the line isn't without comparison, but it's still reallly high, relative to this sample.

Most of those guys are all relatively small. I pulled Brad Miller because he's another big who hangs on the perimeter.

I'd say Dirk gets fouled because he creates mismatches and is difficult to guard.

[FromWayDowntown]

One stat I would love someone to explain:

According to 82games, only 18% of Dirk's shots are from inside. He drew fouls on a whopping 12.3% of his shots.

http://www.82games.com/0506/05DAL12A.HTM

Is he drawing a ton of fouls on jumpshots? Is he drawing fouls more than 50% of the time he goes inside?

Before anyone attacks: I'm not criticizing Dirk. I'm just trying to make sense of this apparently bizarre stat.

I'd be curious if the calculation of shot attempts in the distance classification equals the shot attempts in the fouls drawn category.

For statistical purposes, if a player is fouled on a shooting attempt, he is credited with a FGA only if he makes the shot. The fouls drawn statistic accounts for that by adding in the number of times a player was fouled in the act of shooting -- in Dirk's case, another 225 FGA over his official number of attempts during the regular season (82 games calculates fouls drawn on 1789 shot attempts; according to the NBA, Dirk had 1564 FGA during this past season).

If the 82games number for calculating the percentage of shots taken from various ranges doesn't include the number of times the player was fouled in the act, then I'm not sure that you can ever really square those numbers.

[strangeweather]

Most of those guys are all relatively small. I pulled Brad Miller because he's another big who hangs on the perimeter.

I'd say Dirk gets fouled because he creates mismatches and is difficult to guard.

Fair enough. There's no question that he's by far the best of any of those guys, and the Spurs can certainly attest to the difficulty of guarding him.

[DubMcDub]

The "Mamas dont let your babies grow up to be ____" is played at every game at the AAC. I like how some of you are taking it so personally though.

[strangeweather]

I'd be curious if the calculation of shot attempts in the distance classification equals the shot attempts in the fouls drawn category.

For statistical purposes, if a player is fouled on a shooting attempt, he is credited with a FGA only if he makes the shot. The fouls drawn statistic accounts for that by adding in the number of times a player was fouled in the act of shooting -- in Dirk's case, another 225 FGA over his official number of attempts during the regular season (82 games calculates fouls drawn on 1789 shot attempts; according to the NBA, Dirk had 1564 FGA during this past season).

If the 82games number for calculating the percentage of shots taken from various ranges doesn't include the number of times the player was fouled in the act, then I'm not sure that you can ever really square those numbers.

Nice catch.

[LEONARD]

HEY YOU SAID NO LOGIC.

I did, didn't I??

Most of those guys are all relatively small. I pulled Brad Miller because he's another big who hangs on the perimeter.

I'd say Dirk gets fouled because he creates mismatches and is difficult to guard.

Once again Kori comes thru with the real answer

[DubMcDub]

I'd say Dirk gets fouled because he creates mismatches and is difficult to guard.

The exact same reason Duncan and every other great player in the NBA get fouled a lot--because they are better than the person guarding them (usually).

[td4mvp21]

I did, didn't I??



Once again Kori comes thru with the real answer

Yep and I even said exactly what you wanted to hear too.

[sabar]

You'd be an idiot to not try to fabricate contact and draw charges in the NBA. It denies the other team an easy bucket as most of them are charges through the paint. Not only that but the defenders get possession. Every player knows this and every single one will try to draw a charge and get fouled. Manu loses his balance on purpose when he's touched and Dirk flails like he's having a seizure to draw contact. Nothing new. Yes, some consider it dirty play as you are essentially lying or making fouls that didn't exist, but it's part of the game and always will be.

I'm glad we have a top ten flopper. More points for us.

[ace3g]

I present the one the only the only, the Flailing/Flopping Dirk Nowitzki

aka Karl Malone


aka Reggie Miller


aka the Cry Baby (Barely even touched, just whining for the foul)


aka awkward shooter to get phantom calls


oh and these were thrown in for good fun