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ok, some also prefer to play playstation
The only thing that's old and BS is your stereotyping of "American superstars".
You putting Tim Duncan in that category?
ok, some also prefer to play playstation
Point taken.
But that fact is that Team Argentina represents the absolute best 12-15 players in the country. Or at least you aren't going to find 5 other Argentinians good enough to bump off members.
Same with every other country. Except the US.
KG, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Allen. None of those guys would be sitting out an NBA Finals.
And it isn't a lack of patriotism. The priorities are just different in this country when it comes to basketball.
Yes, indeed, then the world started playing basketball, and the players decided that it was important for them to play against the best players from across the world once in a while. If the players didn't see it as important to represent their country, why would they play, and why would a guy like Bowen be disappointed to miss out?
You are seeing it only from the fan's side. The players see it differently. It is important for them to play for their country.
I don't know if the Spurs would get their 'heads handed to them' but they certainly wouldn't do as well!
It's true. TD was there - he has splinters in his ass from his days of riding the bench, foul ridden.
That excuse that USA doesn't send their best team is OLD and BS.
Okay. Thank you
I hope you don't honestly believe that this statement was justified.
ShoogarBear's makes some good points, although I believe nothing should be held against the countries that DO send their best players.
Also: pardon my ignorance, but what is the 'Vasquez' way?
Bowen is a terrible example. He is the most atypical US team selectee of all time. Using Bruce Bowen's at udes are representative of the typical NBA player is completely inaccurate.
Other countries are sending their very best players, bar none.
I repeat again:
Duncan
Garnett
Shaq
Kobe
Allen
Redd
Does Argentina have any players of on that level who are not participating? Does Spain? Any country at all except the US?
No.
Why? Because it's more important to those countries than it is to the US.
Duncan, Garnett, Shaq and Allen already played for Team USA.
Okaaay . . . and Manu, Scola, and Oberto already played for Argentina. Why aren't they sitting this one out?
Could it be because the NT is the single most important team in Argentina, whereas in the US it is not?
First to say there are countries who haven't sent all of their best players and because of injuries. For instance Smodis comes to my mind, probably one of the top 5 PF's in Europe currently. Why? Because he wants to rest. The national team is not that important.
Which brings me to another point... it's not that their contries are not sending the best players - the countries send the best players AVAILABLE. And that's what ALL countries do, from USA to Lebanon. They send the best players available. A player can be unavailable because... he is injured. Because... he has some problems with the coach/teammates. Or... because he doesn't give a about his team and his country. Every country has players in each of these categories. USA... USA just happen to have lots of players who don't give a about their country. It's just that easy.
Take one example. Shaq (not a good example, for his health and career playing for NT would really be a bad move, but let's forget that for a moment) doesn't want to play for his country at the moment? Ok, what if he would take another citizenship, for instance, Japanese? He would also return the American citizenship. What would you say then, would you still talk about "we are still so cool, we just don't care about these exhibition game, Shaq doesn't care for those games"? Wouldn't it be true, that Shaq is just unavailable and you can't count him on the list of AVAILABLE players? I mean he just took a Japanese citizenship and returned American. Well, for me there is no difference between this crazy scenario and a situation where a player doesn't want to play for his national team just without a solid reason - in both cases he doesn't give a for his country.
What is all this obsession with "we are too strong for any country on the planet. Even if we loose, it would be because best players don't play." Face the truth: best available players play for every country, including USA. If someone doesn't care about national team, it's your problem, he is not an available player. Russians could make an excuse, that they haven't won a WC le for a long time, because some top basketball players from middle of Russian freezing north don't want to play at such unimportant events. "But but but we have Shaq and KG and... " -- "yeah, yeah, we have Aleksey, Grigoriy and Leonid and they all kick your ass."
I used to give some credit to "who is not playing". I don't do that anymore. You want to prove you have the strongest team? Send it in and we'll see if it's true. Nobody asks some nonUSA team who's missing, even if he could be the most important part of the team.
Anyway a team is more than just a bunch of individuals. A team is tactics, spirit, brain. Putting in the mix someone who you think is a better individual doesn'r neccessary make a better team. I think this would especially be true for USA team.
Okay, congratulations, you've crossed the threshold into complete ing piece of morondom.
The US--players and fans alike--just doesn't care enough about international play to make it a priority over the NBA or the NCAA. Sorry but we just don't. It hurts your feelings to hear that? Tough luck. It's the truth.
We don't look down on Olympics or the WC. We'd like for our best players to go, but if that doesn't happen we don't get all that worked up about it. I guess we should just keep quite and not say the truth about that either, to protect your wittle feewlings.
Oh, no, that's right, I forgot, according to you every other country has a Tim Duncan sitting at home, too.
We don't need to prove jack . The day your players stop aspiring to play in the NBA, maybe there'll be something to talk about.
It has nothing to do with how much you care for your country, and only a pathetic piece of moron would feel need to continually rationalize that somehow it does.
WBCs < WNBA
I said "why was Bowen disappointed" to illustrate the point that the players really care about playing at the WBCs (regardless of what NBA fans think), which you completely ignored.
Sure the rest of the world's fans probably care more than US fans about the WBCs, that's not in dispute. I was suggesting that the US players care a lot more than the US fans.
As for the players who are in the team, it is about depth of talent. The players you list above have already played for the US (except Redd?), and by in large did poorly or are getting older, so no wonder they aren't playing.T To compensate, the US has a far deeper pool of talent than any other country by a factor of at least 10, so you can afford to play younger star players when the aging ones opt out and not lose much in the way of talent. There is no other country that can do that. (BTW, Turkoglu and Okur aren't playing for Turkey due to difference of opinion with the coach...)
Anyway, MY POINT was that regardless of what we fans think, the players obviously see it as important and good on them.
I'll also mention that US fans saw it as pretty important WHEN THE US WAS UNBEATABLE (ie. all throughout the 90s). Now that you've had a few failures in a row the old pride is dented and people aren't that interested - no-one wants to get behind a loser... except true fans who will stick with their team no matter what happens. I'm sure most of us here feel that way about our Spurs.
i was readin sum ,
this team, 9 of its members wear nike shoes, this is the nike team, goin to asia to get money, ft.
You stay fixated on one player and conveniently ignored the 5-6 I listed. Tell me why they aren't coming if it's so important.
And is the WC more important to Bruce than an NBA le? No. You have no point at all.
Again, you convienently ignored all the top-level players who clearly haven't made it a priority. Once again, how many top level players from other countries are sitting it out?Sure the rest of the world's fans probably care more than US fans about the WBCs, that's not in dispute. I was suggesting that the US players care a lot more than the US fans.
If it was as important to the US players as you need to believe, Duncan and Garenett would be there.As for the players who are in the team, it is about depth of talent. The players you list above have already played for the US (except Redd?), and by in large did poorly or are getting older, so no wonder they aren't playing.T To compensate, the US has a far deeper pool of talent than any other country by a factor of at least 10, so you can afford to play younger star players when the aging ones opt out and not lose much in the way of talent. There is no other country that can do that.
Tell me again how many players pack it in because they already have an NBA championship.
NBA le/NCAA le >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WC. If that's your defintion of "important".Anyway, MY POINT was that regardless of what we fans think, the players obviously see it as important and good on them.
The US players see it as important and want to win. It's just not a huge priority. Just like the US fans feel.
Thanks for the cultural insight. No, the US saw the ORIGINAL DREAM TEAM as important. Once that novelty was achieved, interest rapidly dropped.I'll also mention that US fans saw it as pretty important WHEN THE US WAS UNBEATABLE (ie. all throughout the 90s). Now that you've had a few failures in a row the old pride is dented and people aren't that interested - no-one wants to get behind a loser... except true fans who will stick with their team no matter what happens. I'm sure most of us here feel that way about our Spurs.
The difference between interest in the 1992 and 1996 teams was orders of magnitude. And even if the US maanged to get all their best players together again, the interest will be nowhere near even 1996.
Dwarf > Sequ
NBA claims that it is the best league in the world (and I agree). But, just claiming something without proving it, doesn't hold water. Since NBA would like to have global influence they must show the rest of the world that they are the best. So I expect to see an NBA selection on every big international compe ion (its business). Players they send must be good enough to win that compe ion and circle is closed.
Last edited by sendman; 08-23-2006 at 06:48 AM.
Now, let us say that next year we have a tournament...Euroleague v NBA Champion
We really have a promotion spectacle, but let's say.
5 years from now Euroleague wins that tournament. What remains to the USA? Then even NBA is not the strongest league. USA is fighting for dominance.
Comparison FIFA v NBA...is comparing UEFA to the Estonian basketball league. NBA means National basketball association and is important just as long as the league has money and TV time all over the world. As an ins ution...you are Estonia (if we would presume that an Estonian guy went to Italy to invent calcio). You have money and that is all. Even China could dominate in 10 years and NBA goes to history. It's that simple. NBA is under FIBA as is Euroleague. FIBA is here to stay.
WTF are they playing for?
How can USA v Slovenia happen without the WBC?
SOME of you americans are pathetic. You send a super duper dream team at a time where there is practically no compe ion and its "we are the best ever we own everyone we can demolish people in our sleep this is our sport". I mean if this was so irrevelant then why send half of the greatest 50 ever! Moreover at a time when there was practically no compe ion! Then, you send really good players (#1 picks, MVPs, allstars, etc) and get your ass handed to you and its "oh we just dont care about the WC. we REALLY care about the olympics." So you send a couple more MVPs and get your ass handed to you again, and its "well, we still have the best players. if we sent the best players we would have the best team."
ARGENTINA, LEBANON, PUERTO RICO, ETC, DO NOT CHOSE TEAM USA'S NATIONAL TEAM. THAT IS YOUR ING PROBLEM NOT OURS. IF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THIS , DONT WATCH IT, DONT TALK ABOUT IT, AND DONT POST ABOUT IT. IF YOU REALLY DONT CARE THEN WHY DO YOU EVERY TIME YOU LOSE??
"our imaginary team is the best, its never lost a game!!!" whoop de ing doo, congratulations. My team is there and it will try and beat whoever stands in front of them, your super team of duncan garnett shaq is the four HOFers for all i care, punked by a starless detroit team. Remember that? Ive come to the conclusion the US will never send its best team again, because if they lost they'd lose their favorite cop-out: "if we sent our best..."
ah, but if you had some balls....
So they win, and you have something ty to say. They lose, and you have something ty to say. You tell people if they don't like it they shouldn't talk about it, but then you incessantly for three paragraphs about americans, whether they win or lose. Get off your high horse, you ignorant hypocrite. You are pathetic, and it doesn't matter where you are from.
If that team was in this compe ion....the same thing would happen. That was a once in a lifetime acheivement which was never and will never be repeated again.You send a super duper dream team at a time where there is practically no compe ion
Duncan, Garnett and Shaq play on the same team?your super team of duncan garnett shaq is the four HOFers for all i care, punked by a starless detroit team.
ARGENTINA, LEBANON, PUERTO RICO, ETC, DO NOT CHOSE TEAM USA'S NATIONAL TEAM. THAT IS YOUR ING PROBLEM NOT OURS. IF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THIS , DONT WATCH IT, DONT TALK ABOUT IT, AND DONT POST ABOUT IT. IF YOU REALLY DONT CARE THEN WHY DO YOU EVERY TIME YOU LOSE??Yes because We choose the team.ah, but if you had some balls....
dude...why the American hate? The rest of the world has gotten way better than 1992 and I think its a good thing. I have no problem when Team USA gets challenged. When they get beat, its because the other team played better and I give props accordingly. If your country loses, its for the same reason. Are you a good sport and give the opponents credit? That is the way it should be. Fear none, respect all.
ok I get two misunderstood replies from totally different viewpoints...
Obstructed view:
I said some americans. specifically, the ones that say "if we sent." Well you didnt send them! The ones that were sent are the ones that are going to get criticized if they lost, and praised if they won. I'm just tired of hearing "if we sent." Live with the team you did send, and if you really don't care and are so sure you have the best team regardless of outcomes, don't follow the god damn tournament! And since you are convinced I talk about the US when they win, show me, I love to learn new things about myself..
SAMikeyP: I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I dont hate the US, its team, or its people- I've lived in the US for over a decade and have friends and family there. The government is a different story but hey its hard to find any good ones! What I meant to say is that those hypothetical teams of duncan, garnett, shaq, kobe, etc are only paper teams and SOME people use them as copouts to cover the failures of these "lesser" teams, when as the four HOFer team showed paper teams aren't guaranteed championships. Believe me, most fans around the world would rather the US sent its best but we have no control over that. Every basketball forum ive been to in recent weeks is covered with posts along the lines of "we could own even more" and "it doesnt matter if we lose we're still the best". Im just tired of some people wanting it both ways, "we won, we're the best" and "it doesnt matter we lost we're still the best, we just dont care about this tourney"
I think its pathetic to have that double standard and really would prefer if the US would just send the best or send no one at all. Its unfair to compete in a tournament and then just copout when any failure comes along, but grab the glory when it comes.
I agree...the best should always be sent. I also think that a committment has to be made by those players for a length of time which is finally happening here. Has the US had the most talent on paper since '92? Definetly. But what made us lose was not superior talent but rather a lack of cohesion that other teams have. If the 2004 team had been together as long as Argentina's team has been...I think the result would have been different. I think if this team stays together from now until the 08 games...they will be the favorite.
I also agree that cop-outs are for pussies. If you win, celebrate, if you lose, be a man and give credit to the other team and come back better.
This thread is worthless. Why argue about the importance of the WC's to Americans? Team USA is going to kick the out of everybody in this compe ion. After this happens all the other nationalities on this board will shut their pie-holes. The team we have in Japan currently is as good as any we've sent since 92 in my opinion.
You must not have been reading all the posts much.... Or you read poorly...Team USA is going to kick the out of everybody in this compe ion. After this happens all the other nationalities on this board will shut their pie-holes. The team we have in Japan currently is as good as any we've sent since 92 in my opinion.
They are a favorite still, no matter how long they`ve been together.I think if this team stays together from now until the 08 games...they will be the favorite.
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