Now The Knicks Think Bruce Bowen Is a Dirty Player

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then his teammates should have been men and given their names instead of being little cowardly es.

I couldn't agree more.

[hitmanyr2k]

Didn't Artest do that just last year? Shaq missed a month as a result and Ron walked away without a scratch, fine, or suspension.

I remember that play and I thought that was intentional as well. Why?

1. Because I saw Artest stick his foot exactly where Shaq would land after he got the rebound.
2. Artest did the Dennis Rodman "look-away" as if to appear what he was doing was unintentional (similar to Bowen last night).
3. Lastly, because Artest showed absolutely no reaction at a 300+ pound man landing on his foot. He didn't even look in Shaq's direction. He just stayed with the classic Dennis Rodman "look-away" as if nothing happened and ran back down court. That tells me he was expecting it.

If anyone has a re-play of this play you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You just have to see the signs.

[veronicamae]

i just watched the vid. to me, it looked like while yes he could have landed differently, he looked 100% like he was readying to box Francis out in the event that NY got the rebound. in order to do that, you're going to do it as efficiently as possible, and that includes getting ready to do so while still in the air.

[duncan2k5]

With Bowen guarding the team's best perimeter player every night for the last three or four years if he was really dirty there would be more incidents than this. How many jump shots from Dirk, Finley, Kobe, et al has he defended without killing anyone?

The replay showed that Ray Allen messed up his ankle on his own. I didn't actually see VC's injury but given his ease of injury I'm inclined to believe that he was just being a little . On all of that, I'd say this is just an accident.

this is the right answer

[Obstructed_View]

Feb 13, 2005 - The Denver Nuggets placed forward Nene on the injured list on Monday with a left knee sprain. The 22-year old former first round pick was injured in the second quarter of his team's 94-79 loss to the New Jersey Nets on Sunday when he landed awkwardly on Vince Carter's foot.

[duncan2k5]

Your momma did.

LMAO!!!

[duncan2k5]

I remember that play and I thought that was intentional as well. Why?

1. Because I saw Artest stick his foot exactly where Shaq would land after he got the rebound.
2. Artest did the Dennis Rodman "look-away" as if to appear what he was doing was unintentional (similar to Bowen last night).
3. Lastly, because Artest showed absolutely no reaction at a 300+ pound man landing on his foot. He didn't even look in Shaq's direction. He just stayed with the classic Dennis Rodman "look-away" as if nothing happened and ran back down court. That tells me he was expecting it.

If anyone has a re-play of this play you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You just have to see the signs.

i remember that. he looked like he didnt even know what was going on. i thought it was funny how shaq was writhing in pain on the ground, and artest was there lookin all su ious

[duncan2k5]

this thread extending to 7 pages on something an "unidentified" knick said is baffling

[pjjrfan]

I saw the play and the replay. I immediately thought that Bruce got a bit too far underneath the shooter. It would have been different had Bruce rose up with him and tried to block his shot at the point of release and Francis came down on him.

I don't know whether Bruce's actions were accidental or intentional. Because so many players have been hurt in this fashion, it's hard to believe the number of players getting hurt in this fashion is merely a coincidence.

If this is a "specific trick" in Bowen's tactical arsenal (and I hope that it's not), I hardly see the point in it. Anyone who has played the game and has twisted or turned an ankle knows how painful this can be.

I love Bowen for his skill, defensive effort and professionalism. Therefore, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I hope there's not a pattern starting here.

It's a compe ive game and everyone's looking for an edge, yet no one wants to see anyone get hurt - accidental or on purpose.

Bowen has done this forever. Well, as long as he has been a Spur. He doesn't undercut people he just turns and takes a step back, it irks the shooters and it undermines their confidence and concentration. Bruce gets away with it because he is simply playing position defense and boxing out. It's one of his tricks and Bruce has a lot of them. He is in my opinion a great defensive player he won't physically take out a guy but he just gets in your space and ruins your rhythm and timing, it's a great skill, and has won him a solid career in the NBA.

[jmard5]

Physical is fine when its chest to chest, body to body, etc...

When you be "physical" with a player when he can't protect himself - that's the definition of dirty or a cheap shot.

Francis is just protecting himself.

[LilMissSPURfect]

timmy sprained his foot landing on sheed's foot as well and no hoopla outta that one either!

[Obstructed_View]

timmy sprained his foot landing on sheed's foot as well and no hoopla outta that one either!

That's because Rasheed can't cover Duncan.

[MI21]

Pretty much the exact same thing happened to me during a game about 2 months ago. Needless to say the guy who did it to me got a push before all the players came in and broke it up. It's just not something you do to a jumpshooter. It can definitely happen by accident, but other times you can see its on purpose.

It's a dirty little trick and whilst I don't think Bruce does it all the time or anything, he does know what he is doing. Dude is probably the smartest defender in the league and all of a sudden people think that he doesn't know where he is standing? Laughable.

But he does do it and its the only dirty part of his game, and he doesn't do it often so I'm not sure you can call Bruce a really dirty player. He is certainly no Stockton, Malone, Howard, Laimbeer, Mahorn or any of the other famously dirty types.

[Axl Van Dam]

Francis hurt, mates
irked at Bowen

Steve Francis did not play in the second half of last night's loss to the Spurs after spraining his ankle. Some Knicks felt it was caused by Francis being undercut by Bruce Bowen.
Bowen, one the league's best defensive players, has been accused by Vince Carter and Ray Allen of not giving them enough room to land when they shoot jump shots.

Francis, who was injured in the first quarter and returned shortly after that, was not available for comment after the game but several teammates, who did not want to be identified, felt Bowen's play was dirty. X-rays taken at the Garden were negative but it is not known if Francis will be available for tomorrow's game against Denver. Channing Frye also sat in the second half but wasn't hurt. He shot 0-for-5 and is inching closer to losing his starting job.


Frank Isola

Whiny little es!!! They criticize Bruce's style of defense and yet they want to remain anonymous. Whiny pussies!!!!

[dirk4mvp]

That is a pretty move by stayig anonymous.

[5ToolMan]

The Knicks think Bowen is dirty because he uses dirty tricks. No revelation there.

I have to respect Kobe. He does not cry over a player who earns his deep playing tough defense playing defense.

In this thread Laker Fan sounds a little light in the sneakers like NBA wooses Carter, Allen, Iverson and Francis.

[T Park]

A lot of Bowen's defense starts with his feet. Everyone knows that. But if you look at the tape of any NBA game, you'll find several instances of what Bowen "did" to Francis. Just like was mentioned in this thread earlier, Francis did it to Manu in the same game.

Bowen is crafty as . "Dirty" just depends on your defini ion of dirty. To me, dirty is throwing elbows, undercutting players while they are in the air, etc.

Dirty players, to me, are guys like Karl Malone, Danny Fortson, Juwan Howard, etc.

Then there's a line of crafty, hard-nosed, tricky players that includes Bowen, Artest (except in his moments of psychotic behavior), etc.

Bowen will always be accused of stuff by some players because he rattles them.

Ray Allen accused Bowen of repeatedly "punching him in the stomach" during a game. Now if Ray Allen, All-Star/Superstar that he is, was actually getting repeatedly punched in the stomach in a game, the league would do something about it.

That ends the deBate right there.


Thank you Kori.

[Isiah Thomas]

That was deliberate I demand a suspension

[kris]

Man, I just watched it 5 more times and that was the sneakiest dirty move of all time. If you've played basketball, you pretty much know that was about as unnatural a move as they come. No one goes up to contest the shot and then splits their feet apart like that to under the opponent. Bowen had to really try to extend his leg out there. The fact that there is debate whether it was dirty or not shows how clever Bruce is. If you don't think it's dirty, pretend you're Bruce on that play and jump up like you are trying to get a hand towards the ball, then turn a little bit and split your one of your feet away from the other If he was boxing out, he would have just turned around and put his arms back. (Why would you split your feet like that?) Bowen had to really try to do that. If he didn't have the reputation, I could possibly see it being some "accidental" thing, but this is Bruce Bowen and that was no accident.

[boutons_]

"Bowen had to really try to extend his leg out there"

Yep, I was already convinced of that weirdness in the Bruce/Vince incident, but I gave Bruce the benefit of the doubt. He no longer gets that benefit. His foot goes spaz on purpose. Mr. Good Guy/Hard Worker/Spokesman/FamilyMan plays dirty. I'm very disappointed.

I'm surprised that the Bruce/Franchise incident hasn't made nearly as much noise as the Bruce/Vince incident.

[spurtime]

I think it's intentional and I think the offensive player needs to adjust to it. Bruce takes the offensive player out of his comfort zone...Too bad.

[pas2704]

Bruce Bowen is a clean player. Just ask his mother.

[LEONARD]

cheap and dirty...

[2Cleva]

Just for the record, what Bowen did WAS against the rules, he just didn't get caught.

Francis was undercut by the Spurs' Bruce Bowen as he made a jumper in the first quarter of the Knicks' 105-93 loss Monday night. When he came down, he landed on Bowen and twisted the ankle.

The play was a textbook example of a tactic the NBA is supposed to be cracking down on this season. In an officiating video shown around the league, players were warned to give jump shooters a clear landing spot. No foul was called on the Francis play.

"I didn't even pay any attention to those rules changes," Francis said. "I was asleep for that whole video, if you've noticed in my play."

[nkdlunch]

Man, I just watched it 5 more times and that was the sneakiest dirty move of all time. If you've played basketball, you pretty much know that was about as unnatural a move as they come. No one goes up to contest the shot and then splits their feet apart like that to under the opponent. Bowen had to really try to extend his leg out there. The fact that there is debate whether it was dirty or not shows how clever Bruce is. If you don't think it's dirty, pretend you're Bruce on that play and jump up like you are trying to get a hand towards the ball, then turn a little bit and split your one of your feet away from the other If he was boxing out, he would have just turned around and put his arms back. (Why would you split your feet like that?) Bowen had to really try to do that. If he didn't have the reputation, I could possibly see it being some "accidental" thing, but this is Bruce Bowen and that was no accident.

you obviously have not seen Bowen defend in the past. He always lands with legs split, so he can either recover his man, or go for a rebound, or steal, etc. rookie if shooter lands on his feet, tough .


like ppl have mentioned before, landing on somone's foot happens ALL THE TIME