American founded to be free, not secular

[ChumpDumper]

I don't buy that. You can judge who is and isn't a Christian based on a summit meeting of bishops, but there isn't enough evidence to tell you who is going to heaven?

Your confidence in one answer doesn't jibe with your complete lack of confidence in the other.

"I know who can be called a Christian but I don't know who is saved."

[smeagol]

I don't buy that. You can judge who is and isn't a Christian based on a summit meeting of bishops, but there isn't enough evidence to tell you who is going to heaven?

Your confidence in one answer doesn't jibe with your complete lack of confidence in the other.

"I know who can be called a Christian but I don't know who is saved."

Being a Christian is defined by following Christs teachings. The Mormons introduced the teachings of John Smith and his Book of Mormon and they have placed it on par with the Bible.

It's fairly simple to see why they are not Christians.


With regards to slavation, though: How can a mere human be certain of who is saved and who is dammed? Nobody knows what's inside a man's heart, only God.

And frankly, no human knows for sure who is saved and who is not: Not the Pope, not the Protestant pastors, not the Orthodox Patriarchs.

But chump: the two issues are completely different.

[Spurminator]

My reading comprehension is at the level of a third grader. I need every post spelled out for me, "Dummies" style, in order to follow along. That, or I simply claim to not be satisfied with an answer that I don't have a rebuttal for.

[ChumpDumper]

Being a Christian is defined by following Christs teachings. The Mormons introduced the teachings of John Smith and his Book of Mormon and they have placed it on par with the Bible.

But that's all about Jesus too. Just because someone made up some new stories about Jesus, does that invalidate the entire Christianity of the religion?

It's fairly simple to see why they are not Christians.

Not really. They believe in Chirst as the savior, do they not? Is the Nicene Creed the real litmus test for you, or are there others?

With regards to slavation, though: How can a mere human be certain of who is saved and who is dammed? Nobody knows what's inside a man's heart, only God.

How can a mere human be certain of anything when it comes to religion?

[Guru of Nothing]

My reading comprehension is at the level of a third grader. I need every post spelled out for me, "Dummies" style, in order to follow along. That, or I simply claim to not be satisfied with an answer that I don't have a rebuttal for

Nicely put.

[jochhejaam]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: Originally Posted by jochhethejahatheham

My reading comprehension is at the level of a third grader. I need every post spelled out for me, "Dummies" style, in order to follow along. That, or I simply claim to not be satisfied with an answer that I don't have a rebuttal for.

Ad Hominen? That's all you got?
You were manhandled throughout this post because you couldn't substantiate your baseless assertions, and that left you in the position of trying to redeem yourself (in your mind) through Ad Hominen. Well done indeed.


Think things through before you post, and you'll find you may not get caught with your pants down so often.

[Spurminator]

Ad Hominen? That's all you got?

When in Rome... (And it's spelled "Ad Hominem." Yep, I've also got that.)

You're not interested in contributing thoughts to meaningful discussion, you're too obsessed with how I'm arguing a point instead of the point itself. You lean on semantics and circular reasoning so you can yell "scoreboard" at the end as if this was some kind of contest.

Basically, you've asked me to provide Scriptural, or other, evidence that one can be saved by Christ in some way that is not directly referenced in Scripture. If you don't understand the inherent fallacy in such a demand, I don't see the point in putting much time into a dialogue with you. You might as well ask if God can make a square circle or if I can disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The burden is not on me to prove anything because I have made no absolute assertions related to Salvation; all I have done is left the door open for God, in His divine and supreme power, to apply Christ's sacrifice for our sins in any way He sees fit. It's not "watered down" and it's not "dangerous." People who believe this will not be tempted to live in hedonistic sin and "hope for the best" when Judgment comes.

Anyone who wishes to see the Kingdom of Heaven should his life according to Scripture. If not, they risk missing out on Salvation. I assume we agree on this, you just want me to word it in a way that sounds more exclusionary or absolute.



Now here's where you chime to pout about how I either put words into your mouth or did not directly respond to your question. And another jochhejaam-heavy thread moves forward at a complete stand-still.

[smeagol]

But that's all about Jesus too. Just because someone made up some new stories about Jesus, does that invalidate the entire Christianity of the religion?

When you believe in "new" stories which conflict with what Christianity has been teaching since the Crucifiction, you are not a Christian.

Did you read what ES posted as some of the Mormon's beliefs?:

1) God is a created being of flesh and bone;
2) Jesus is his actual physical son that was conceived when he, God, slept with Mary;
3) God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three separate people who take turns holding the office of the Godhead;
4) God was a faithful Mormon man on some other planet, and received as reward dominion as god over this planet, Earth;
5) Faithful Mormons become gods over their own planets when they die;
6) Mormons are supposed to populate their planets with spirit children;
7) God is married to his goddess wife;
8) We are spirit children of God the Father conceived through his wife;
9) There are three levels of heaven;
10) Jesus and Satan are brothers;
11) God decided men needed salvation, so Jesus and Satan developed competing salvation plans, and God picked Jesus';

Every one of these 11 beliefs contradicts what Christians have believed for 2000 years.

What additional proof do you need?

Not really. They believe in Chirst as the savior, do they not?

If somebody believes Christ is there savior but also believes God lives in Mars and when we die we all get to party in Venus before we are allowed in Heaven, which is located in one of Uranus' moons, I don't think they are Christans either.

How can a mere human be certain of anything when it comes to religion?

I'm certain Mormons, JW, Seven Day Adventists and "Christian" Scientists are not Christians.

[ChumpDumper]

And yet you allow for the possibility of their being allowed into heaven for their belief in Christ.

How Christian of you.

[smeagol]

And yet you allow for the possibility of their being allowed into heaven for their belief in Christ.

How Christian of you.

Is there a point somewhere in your comment?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure. If you missed it, don't worry about it. You're going to heaven.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]

When in Rome... (And it's spelled "Ad Hominem." Yep, I've also got that.)

You're not interested in contributing thoughts to meaningful discussion, you're too obsessed with how I'm arguing a point instead of the point itself. You lean on semantics and circular reasoning so you can yell "scoreboard" at the end as if this was some kind of contest.

You talk about me scoreboarding? Okay, I guess you get 1 point for winning the spelling contest which gives you a grand total of ...1 point. Congratulations...
Care to explain the where my reasoning is circular?
The problem is that you fail to articulate your talking points, and when asked to go into detail you either ignore the question or resort to changing the subject alltogether <---(intentionally misspelled so you can add another point to your scoreboard).

Basically, you've asked me to provide Scriptural, or other, evidence that one can be saved by Christ in some way that is not directly referenced in Scripture.

Nope. You're the one that stated, and I quote, that "I believe the Scripture does lay out specific guidelines for salvation. That said, I do not believe it necessarily limits salvation to those guidelines".

So, you stated that you believe there are other guidelines that lead to salvation yet you offer absolutely nothing in the way of an explanation. Please share the reasoning behind such a brash statement.
Perhaps you have a book in the works led Spurminator's Additional Guidelines To The Scriptual Guidelines For Salvation ?

The burden is not on me to prove anything because I have made no absolute assertions related to Salvation;

No again. You absolutely asserted (see your above quote) that the Scripture lays out specific guidelines, but that you don't believe salvation is limited to those guidelines. I'm not sure which is worse, watering down the plan of salvation or implying that you believe there are other avenues beyond "God's clearly stated guidelines" without offering a clue as to what those other guidelines might be.

Anyone who wishes to see the Kingdom of Heaven should his life according to Scripture. If not, they risk missing out on Salvation. I assume we agree on this, you just want me to word it in a way that sounds more exclusionary or absolute.

It's tempting to point out that "should his life" doesn't make sense as you did with my spelling error, but I'll take the higher road and refrain from doing so...

And we do agree on you're assertion that living the life according to scripture will lead to the Kingdom of Heaven. Where we disagree is with you stating that it can be done so outside of these guidelines.

Also, if you don't mind, explain how this insinuates that I'm asking you to be exclusionary? (It doesn't)

Now here's where you chime to pout about how I either put words into your mouth or did not directly respond to your question. And another jochhejaam-heavy thread moves forward at a complete stand-still.

More Ad Hominem <sigh>

[smeagol]

Sure. If you missed it, don't worry about it.

I sure did. Care to expand?

You're going to heaven.

Says who?

[Spurminator]

Surprise, surprise. Another long joch post about how someone else posted instead of what they posted about.

Yawn.

When you choose to bring some contribution or argument to the actual subject in discussion, I'd be happy to continue this.

[DarkReign]

Kill em all, let God sort em out.

These threads are some of the more meaningless, self-indulgent, ego-stroking propoganda recitals this board will ever see.

From one post to the next, neither person has any desire to hear or listen, just spout belief and villify the surrounding hedonists.

Preach on, drive on, see you in the hereafter.

[johnsmith]

Kill em all, let God sort em out.

These threads are some of the more meaningless, self-indulgent, ego-stroking propoganda recitals this board will ever see.

From one post to the next, neither person has any desire to hear or listen, just spout belief and villify the surrounding hedonists.

Preach on, drive on, see you in the hereafter.