Real 9-11 Research

[RandomGuy]

In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).

However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true.

[RandomGuy]

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
1. If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a do ent from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any do entation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

The capability to conduct rigorous simulations of the aircraft impact, the growth and spread of the ensuing fires, and the effects of fires on the structure is a recent development. Since the approach to structural modeling was developed for the NIST WTC investigation, the technical capability available to the PANYNJ and its consultants and contactors to perform such analyses in the 1960s would have been quite limited in comparison to the capabilities brought to bear in the NIST investigation.

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well do ented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

[Nbadan]

which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings.

See, my whole issue with the NIST report is it treats each building as a box, of course, each building had 47 center re-enforced trusses.

[Nbadan]

owever, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

In which case the steel would buckle and bend causing the building to topple over at the point where the beams became compromised, like a tree.

[RandomGuy]

See, my whole issue with the NIST report is it treats each building as a box, of course, each building had 47 center re-enforced trusses.

47 steel reinforced trusses that could have supported how much mass?

[Nbadan]

47 steel reinforced trusses that could have supported how much mass?

that would depend on how many of them were compromised in the initial impact. The fact that Tower 2 collapsed first, even though it did not appear to suffer a direct impact on the center trusses is a scientific conundrum.

[ChumpDumper]

In which case the steel would buckle and bend causing the building to topple over at the point where the beams became compromised, like a tree.

Which it did, then gravity's pull on several acres of office building did the rest.

[RandomGuy]

that would depend on how many of them were compromised in the initial impact. The fact that Tower 2 collapsed first, even though it did not appear to suffer a direct impact on the center trusses is a scientific conundrum.

If you read the NIST report, you would know why. It's in there, I promise.

[RandomGuy]

that would depend on how many of them were compromised in the initial impact. The fact that Tower 2 collapsed first, even though it did not appear to suffer a direct impact on the center trusses is a scientific conundrum.

The NIST report addresses this.

Basically, the second building was hit a bit farther down, meaning the damaged section had to support more weight, and the way the airliner hit affected the fires somewhat.

Read the NIST report, and they explain it in MUCH more detail.

[Nbadan]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

[Extra Stout]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Err... they did release all their data. It's in the technical support do ents on the freaking website.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/

Have at it.

[Extra Stout]

Dammit.

[RandomGuy]

Err... they did release all their data. It's in the technical support do ents on the freaking website.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/

Have at it.

CTers that other people don't read their websites because everyone else has closed minds, but when it comes to reading the NIST report, not reading it is ok.

[RandomGuy]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Draft report on project 1: Design, Construction, and Maintenance of Structural and Life Safety Systems
(Note: Reports are presented in .pdf and may require the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download or update Adobe Acrobat Reader free.)

Executive Summary
Full Report (275 pgs.)
Draft supporting technical reports
Design and Construction of Structural Systems (Appendices)
Comparison of Building Code Structural Requirements
Maintenance and Modifications to Structural Systems (Appendices)
Fire Protection and Life Safety Provisions Applied to the Design and Construction of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 and Post-Construction Provisions Applied after Occupancy
Comparison of Codes, Standards, and Practices in Use at the Time of Design and Construction of World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7
Comparison of 1968 and Current (2003) New York City Building Code Provisions
Amendments to the Fire Protection and Life Safety Provisions of the New York City Building Code by Local Laws Adopted while World Trade Center 1, 2, and 7 Were in Use
Post-Construction Modifications to Fire Protection and Life Safety Systems of the World Trade Center Towers
Post-Construction Modifications to Fire Protection, Life Safety, and Structural Systems of World Trade Center 7
Do entation of the Fuel System for Emergency Power in World Trade Center 7

[RandomGuy]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Draft report on project 2: Baseline Structural Performance and Aircraft Impact Damage Analysis of the World Trade Center Towers (Note: Reports are presented in .pdf and may require the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download or update Adobe Acrobat Reader free.)

Executive Summary
Full Report (458 pgs.)
Draft supporting technical reports

Reference Structural Models and Baseline Performance Analysis of the World Trade Center Towers
Analysis of Aircraft Impacts into the World Trade Center Towers (Appendices)
Chapters 1-8
Chapters 9-11

[RandomGuy]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Draft report on project 3: Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel (Note: Reports are presented in .pdf and may require the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download or update Adobe Acrobat Reader free.)

Executive Summary
Full Report (184 pgs.)
Draft supporting technical reports

Contemporaneous Structural Steel Specifications
Steel Inventory and Identification
Damage and Failure Modes of Structural Steel Components (Appendices)
Mechanical Properties of Structural Steels
Physical Properties of Structural Steels

[RandomGuy]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Draft report on project 4: Active Fire Protection Systems (Note: Reports are presented in .pdf and may require the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download or update Adobe Acrobat Reader free.)

Executive Summary
Full Report (138 pgs.)
Draft supporting technical reports
Post-Construction Fires prior to September 11, 2001
Fire Suppression Systems
Fire Alarm Systems
Smoke Management Systems

[RandomGuy]

The NIST report is speculation. Let them release all their data so that their calculations can be scientifically duplicated.

Draft report on project 5: Reconstruction of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers (Note: Reports are presented in .pdf and may require the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download or update Adobe Acrobat Reader free.)

Executive Summary
Full Report (238 pgs.) (Appendixes)
Draft supporting technical reports
Visual Evidence, Damage Estimates, and Timeline Analysis
Chapters 1-8
Chapter 9-Appendices
Experiments and Modeling of Structural Steel Elements Exposed to Fire
Fire Tests of Single Office Workstations
Reaction of Ceiling Tile Systems to Shocks
Experiments and Modeling of Multiple Workstations Burning in a Compartment
Computer Simulation of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers
Fire Structure Interface and Thermal Response of the World Trade Center Towers

[RandomGuy]

I think I have made my point.

Dan, this entire thesis of controlled demolition is based on quackery, and scientific ignorance.

I have no doubt that you, mouse, et al. will keep your closed minds and refuse to even consider this possibility, but it is there for everybody else to see.

[RandomGuy]

Since verbose, difficult-to-read scientific reports contradict my claims of conspiracy, I'll use a different approach: Nothing says "Science" like lots of photos, drawings, and short captions in a PowerPoint or Flash animation backed by spooky "conspiracy music."

[Nbadan]

The fire and smoke behavior were simulated using the Fire Dynamics Simulator (FDS) software developed by NIST.

They wrote their own simulation program.

[Nbadan]

Err... they did release all their data. It's in the technical support do ents on the freaking website.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/

Have at it.

Where are the building blue-prints showing the trusses? Liar.

[Nbadan]

NIST's Working Hypothesis for Collapse of the WTC Towers

Even NISt calls it a working hypothesis, but to those in the 911 faith movement, it's fact.

[ChumpDumper]

They wrote their own simulation program.

Whose simulation program did you use?

[johnsmith]

Even NISt calls it a working hypothesis, but to those in the 911 faith movement, it's fact.

I absolutely love when you call it the "faith movement". As if to say that conspiracy theorists are in the majority.

Good stuff jackass.