Alberto Gonzales to resign..

[ChumpDumper]

I'll give you a few minutes to find out who they are.

[Wild Cobra]

So you are accusing John Negroponte and Bob Mueller of propaganda and innuendo.

Awesome.

What the are you talking about?

Neither of them were there for the 3/10 visit with the AG. By Comey’s own testimony, just before this happened he talked to Mueller by phone. Where was Negroponte suppose to be?

He was in the room with Ashcroft, Ashcroft’s wife, Goldsmith, and Philbin. There may have been a medical person there.

He stepped out to call Mueller.

Came back in, later Gonzales and Card came in the room.

Very short discussion, Gonzales and Card left.

What was spoken about isn’t specified and assumption are made in Comey’s testimony. Negroponte’s memorandum is supplying requested dates and times. Nothing supporting perjury. Same with Mueller’s testimony. He was not present for the assumed perjury. His notes say that at 1940 (7:40 PM) when he arrived:

“Card and Gonzoles have come and gone.”

Anything he says is hearsay.

There is nothing specified that what was spoken about in the room was the same program spoken in other places that support the assumed perjury. Gonzales and others say there are different programs, or something to that effect.

From the hearing transcript:

COMEY:

---snip---

I got out of the car and ran up -- literally ran up the stairs with my security detail.

SCHUMER: What was your concern? You were in obviously a huge hurry.

COMEY: I was concerned that, given how ill I knew the attorney general was, that there might be an effort to ask him to overrule me when he was in no condition to do that.

SCHUMER: Right,

OK. COMEY: I was worried about him, frankly.

And so I raced to the hospital room, entered. And Mrs. Ashcroft was standing by the hospital bed, Mr. Ashcroft was lying down in the bed, the room was darkened. And I immediately began speaking to him, trying to orient him as to time and place, and try to see if he could focus on what was happening, and it wasn't clear to me that he could. He seemed pretty bad off.

SCHUMER: At that point it was you, Mrs. Ashcroft and the attorney general and maybe medical personnel in the room. No other Justice Department or government officials.

COMEY: Just the three of us at that point.

I tried to see if I could help him get oriented. As I said, it wasn't clear that I had succeeded.

I went out in the hallway. Spoke to Director Mueller by phone. He was on his way. I handed the phone to the head of the security detail and Director Mueller instructed the FBI agents present not to allow me to be removed from the room under any cir stances. And I went back in the room.

I was shortly joined by the head of the Office of Legal Counsel assistant attorney general, Jack Goldsmith, and a senior staffer of mine who had worked on this matter, an associate deputy attorney general.

So the three of us Justice Department people went in the room. I sat down...

SCHUMER: Just give us the names of the two other people.

COMEY: Jack Goldsmith, who was the assistant attorney general, and Patrick Philbin, who was associate deputy attorney general.

I sat down in an armchair by the head of the attorney general's bed. The two other Justice Department people stood behind me. And Mrs. Ashcroft stood by the bed holding her husband's arm. And we waited.

And it was only a matter of minutes that the door opened and in walked Mr. Gonzales, carrying an envelope, and Mr. Card. They came over and stood by the bed. They greeted the attorney general very briefly. And then Mr. Gonzales began to discuss why they were there -- to seek his approval for a matter, and explained what the matter was -- which I will not do.

And Attorney General Ashcroft then stunned me. He lifted his head off the pillow and in very strong terms expressed his view of the matter, rich in both substance and fact, which stunned me -- drawn from the hour-long meeting we'd had a week earlier -- and in very strong terms expressed himself, and then laid his head back down on the pillow, seemed spent, and said to them, "But that doesn't matter, because I'm not the attorney general."

SCHUMER: But he expressed his reluctance or he would not sign the statement that they -- give the authorization that they had asked, is that right?

COMEY: Yes.

And as he laid back down, he said, "But that doesn't matter, because I'm not the attorney general. There is the attorney general," and he pointed to me, and I was just to his left. The two men did not acknowledge me. They turned and walked from the room. And within just a few moments after that, Director Mueller arrived. I told him quickly what had happened. He had a brief -- a memorable brief exchange with the attorney general and then we went outside in the hallway.

SCHUMER: OK.

Now, just a few more points on that meeting.

First, am I correct that it was Mr. Gonzales who did just about all of the talking, Mr. Card said very little?

COMEY: Yes, sir.

SCHUMER: OK. And they made it clear that there was in this envelope an authorization that they hoped Mr. Ashcroft -- Attorney General Ashcroft would sign.

COMEY: In substance. I don't know exactly the words, but it was clear that's what the envelope was.

Notice how Schumer leads Comey to easy answers, and disregards pointed questions anyone seeking the truth would ask. He never asks if the program was the same as another incident. He let's assumptions stand.

What about Card's testimony? Goldsmith, and Philbin's testimony? Why do we never hear what they said, or did they even testify? They were in the room! Could they confirm Gonzales' story?

[01.20.09]

GWB is just putting his mark on his legacy.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're Saying Comey and Mueller are lying in an attempt to smear Gonzales three years in the future.

Awesome.

Why didn't Ashcroft testify?

[Wild Cobra]

So you're Saying Comey and Mueller are lying in an attempt to smear Gonzales three years in the future.

Awesome.

Why didn't Ashcroft testify?

Ashcroft? I don’t know if he did or didn’t. You tell me. I can assume that he was in no condition to clearly recall the events as he was medicated while in the hospital. With the other people in the room who had their full capacities, I would like to her their viewpoint.

My God man. Do you even absorb my words?

I would suggest that Comey is very carefully parsing the truth. He is playing along with answering question that implicate Gonzales without lying. I haven't see any words of Mueller's to suggest he is trying to do anything. I haven't searched for his testimony however. What is his testimony? I don’t have the time to research everything I would like to. However, the research and viewpoints I have researched and supplied clearly put your posted remarks to shame. Your turn for supplying RELAVENT FACTS. Comey was the deputy yet Gonzales was selected when Ashcroft’s four years were up. Worse yet, he resigned and was likely forced to resign as some say Ashcroft got an agreement by Comey he would sign of on ‘the program’ before Ashcroft went into the hospital. Assuming that is true, Comey violated that agreement. Comey says Gonzales tried to cir vent his decision and won and admits he was upset over it. Is it possible Comey has an axe to grind?

Now I have a serious request. Support you suppositions.

Why is Gonzales guilty? I have repeatedly shown you why the evidence does not support it. I would like you to supply some evidence that does instead of trying to sidetrack me with stupid suppositions and remarks, and asking questions without addressing the viewpoints I have clearly made..

WHERE'S THE BEEF?

[ChumpDumper]

Ashcroft? I don’t know if he did or didn’t. You tell me.

He didn't, but why would you believe me?

I can assume that he was in no condition to clearly recall the events as he was medicated while in the hospital. With the other people in the room who had their full capacities, I would like to her their viewpoint.

His wife then.

I would suggest that Comey is very carefully parsing the truth.

I would suggest he's saying what happened.

I haven't see any words of Mueller's to suggest he is trying to do anything.

So you didn't read the do ents. Ok.

However, the research and viewpoints I have researched and supplied clearly put your posted remarks to shame.

Seeing as you didn't read it, you have no basis for comparison.

Comey was the deputy yet Gonzales was selected when Ashcroft’s four years were up.

What does that have to do with anything? Come back with a relevant fact.

Worse yet, he resigned and was likely forced to resign as some say Ashcroft got an agreement by Comey he would sign of on ‘the program’ before Ashcroft went into the hospital.

"Some say"? Who say? Hearsay? You've got nothing here.

Why is Gonzales guilty?

I'm all for a full investigation of this incident. I'm confident Gonzales will be proven to have lied to congress repeatedly.

I have repeatedly shown you why the evidence does not support it.

Actually, you have shown nothing. The wild discrepancies between the contemporary do entation and testimony of both Comey and Mueller remain. You're as poor an advocate as Gonzo was an AG. If it was that easy to clear Gonzo, he'd still have a job today.

[Wild Cobra]

So you didn't read the do ents.

I'm not sure which one you are talking about. I read everything posted in this thread. I have seen no testimony that where Mueller states facts that differ with the specific time and place that is at issue.

"Some say"? Who say? Hearsay? You've got nothing here.

Yes. It is irrelevant however. It is also hearsay like your stuff is. I'm only pointing out it exists. At least I don’t rely on that level of evidence to make my decisions like you do.

Actually, you have shown nothing.

What I have shown is that the accusations have no credible basis. It's almost impossible to prove someone innocent. That's why the burden of proof is to show guilt. You have not shown that.

The wild discrepancies between the contemporary do entation and testimony of both Comey and Mueller remain.

Spell them out to me unless you are unable to show that point. I fail

If it was that easy to clear Gonzo, he'd still have a job today.

Not with the democrats trying to destroy him. They won't let it go.

Ask yourself this. Why would Gonzales need to lie about what was said?

Why are they trying to get him on perjury over this?

Because it's a witch hunt and a drumhead trial!

Do us a favor please. Spell out what Gonzales did wrong, and the specific points of the evidence that show it. If you are right about it, I'm just not seeing it. Wouldn't you like it to see me admit I was wrong again? If so... Where's the Beef?

[clambake]

WC, then what you're saying is that gonzo turned out to be the biggest pussy of them all.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, then what you're saying is that gonzo turned out to be the biggest pussy of them all.

Nope. That was answered. He is involved in too many inquiries to be effective any longer. That is my belief as to his resignation. I am not stating that as fact.

Why are so many of you 'baiters' in this forum? Some of you are even masters at the art.

wiki; Baiter:

A baiter is someone in an Internet discussion group who deliberately posts aggravating messages on a message board. Often, this is part of a previous conflict between the baiter and the baiter's intended target.

Baiters are different from Flamers because they do not directly insult their target; instead, they post something likely to aggravate him/her.

[clambake]

his involvement is no one elses fault but his own. he already stated, over and over and over how he couldn't recall what he does at work.

he was never effective, you can drop the "any longer".

[clambake]

wiki: how to use the term "baiter":

refer to someone as a baiter when you find yourself without a legitimate arguement.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not sure which one you are talking about. I read everything posted in this thread. I have seen no testimony that where Mueller states facts that differ with the specific time and place that is at issue.

Sure thing counselor, you've really rezearched this well.

Yes. It is irrelevant however. It is also hearsay like your stuff is. I'm only pointing out it exists. At least I don’t rely on that level of evidence to make my decisions like you do.

You just did.

What I have shown is that the accusations have no credible basis. It's almost impossible to prove someone innocent. That's why the burden of proof is to show guilt. You have not shown that.

Actually there is a huge credible basis for the accusations. Worthy of a full investigation. Gonzo is trying to dodge it by resigning.

Spell them out to me unless you are unable to show that point. I fail

You certainly do fail. I'm glad we can agree on that.

Not with the democrats trying to destroy him. They won't let it go.

Let what go? You claim he did absolutely nothing wrong, so he's indestructible.

Ask yourself this. Why would Gonzales need to lie about what was said?

The reasons are obvious. Why would Mueller lie three years before the hearings?

Why are they trying to get him on perjury over this?

Because there are clearly discrepancies between Gonzo's testimony and the evidence contemporary to the events he testified to.

Because it's a witch hunt and a drumhead trial!

Not at all. He was given every opportunity to modify his testimony to address these discrepancies. Congressmen on both sides of the aisle were incredulous at his actions.

Do us a favor please. Spell out what Gonzales did wrong, and the specific points of the evidence that show it. If you are right about it, I'm just not seeing it. Wouldn't you like it to see me admit I was wrong again? If so... Where's the Beef?

It's ok, it's been proven you aren't very smart. If you don't get it by now, you never will -- so let the grown ups talk about this.

[Wild Cobra]

wiki: how to use the term "baiter":

refer to someone as a baiter when you find yourself without a legitimate arguement.

Actually, I was just trying to have fun with the word. This is a political forum, and just the sheer nature of such we all tend to bait each other to one degree or another. I was hoping someone was intelligent enough to call me a hypocrite over it. Consider this. I do may share of 'baiting', dont I?

Oh well, you guys are no fun.

[Wild Cobra]

Yes. It is irrelevant however. It is also hearsay like your stuff is. I'm only pointing out it exists. At least I don’t rely on that level of evidence to make my decisions like you do.

You just did.

Nope, I don't rely on it. I was pointing out a differing unconfirmed view that may or may not be correct chump.

What I have shown is that the accusations have no credible basis. It's almost impossible to prove someone innocent. That's why the burden of proof is to show guilt. You have not shown that.

Actually there is a huge credible basis for the accusations. Worthy of a full investigation. Gonzo is trying to dodge it by resigning.

I don't see it. I listened and watched various You Tube links. What is more telling than what is asked and said are the obvious questions that should be asked that are not asked. You are falling hook-line-and-sinker for the lefts propaganda. I want you to point individual items out so I can show you why they are not relevant. Point, counterpoint. You are refusing to give me a single correlation. Therefore, your partisanship must be so instilled in your soul, you are blind. I just will not sit down and counter about twenty points I have seen that make Gonzales seem guilty to those who are ignorant to the line of questioning involved.

Again... consider the questions that should have been asked by anyone seeking the truth that were not asked!

Spell them out to me unless you are unable to show that point. I fail

You certainly do fail. I'm glad we can agree on that.

Again, spell the points out please. I'll bet I can show clear holes in every one of them I see you are not up to the challenge.

Chicken.

As for the "I fail," I don't know what got deleted, but there was more to follow. I don't specifically remember, but I was probably saying "I fail to see any assumptions that have other answers." Operator error on the keypad I quess.

Not with the democrats trying to destroy him. They won't let it go.

Let what go? You claim he did absolutely nothing wrong, so he's indestructible.

They won't let their hatred go. If they asked proper questions that would seek the truth, I could be less harsh on them. However, they appear to stay away from the questions that would show Gonzoles is innocent of what they are grand-standing with the media for.

Ask yourself this. Why would Gonzales need to lie about what was said?

The reasons are obvious. Why would Mueller lie three years before the hearings?

Lie about what dammit.

I have repeatedly asked what Mueller and others have said that is in opposition and you cannot tell me. I'm getting a bit pissed at your childish at ude.

What did Mueller say?

Oh... That's right... You are making this up... You are lying about this and have no answer to give me...

Why are they trying to get him on perjury over this?

Because there are clearly discrepancies between Gonzo's testimony and the evidence contemporary to the events he testified to.

Bull . He has answered to the supposed discrepancy. It is a reasonable answer and Comey is allowed to imply rather than factually state. They have proven that they will do whatever they can to discredit Gonzales. They are simply after hiss ass at all costs.

Because it's a witch hunt and a drumhead trial!

Not at all. He was given every opportunity to modify his testimony to address these discrepancies. Congressmen on both sides of the aisle were incredulous at his actions.

Sure, he was pretty shaken by the way he was grilled and badgered by Schumer in the hearing. They are clearly after his ass, he knows it, and is nervous. He isn't handling personal attacks very well. Some people handle such things better than others.

Do us a favor please. Spell out what Gonzales did wrong, and the specific points of the evidence that show it. If you are right about it, I'm just not seeing it. Wouldn't you like it to see me admit I was wrong again? If so... Where's the Beef?

It's ok, it's been proven you aren't very smart. If you don't get it by now, you never will -- so let the grown ups talk about this.

Actually, I am in the 99%+++ percentile of intelligence. I see the fine nuances of what is and isn't said. I am simply not ready to jump to conclusions where I see more likely reasons. You obviously don't understand the fine nuances, and take the leftist propaganda at face value.

This is obviously the case because you refuse to show me what I am supposable missing. That's OK. You must be afraid I will prove you wrong.

I dare you. Give me a few clear examples of what cons utes this perjury. I challenge you to see if I can or cannot show a perfectly reasonable explanation that opposes yours. Let's go that far, then we can debate the merits of each.

Or... are you chicken?

Now I have not fully researched everything yet. Little by little I am finding more info. A complete transcript of all testimony would help if anyone knows it's location.

I gotta cut this short. Again, no proof reading so you might have a few more laughs.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, I am in the 99%+++ percentile of intelligence.

X 99+++

[MannyIsGod]

@ that claim

[George Gervin's Afro]

[George Gervin's Afro]

....

Actually, I am in the 99%+++ percentile of intelligence.

[xrayzebra]

No sweat, the AG IG is looking into it all. I wonder if he was
appointed by Clinton.

I wonder if the dimm-o-craps will ever get around to doing anything
but holding hearings.

One thing about these forums, all the liberal, progressive types
love to stay in lockstep. All you have to do is get one to say
something and all the rest come piling in.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No sweat, the AG IG is looking into it all. I wonder if he was
appointed by Clinton.

I wonder if the dimm-o-craps will ever get around to doing anything
but holding hearings.

One thing about these forums, all the liberal, progressive types
love to stay in lockstep. All you have to do is get one to say
something and all the rest come piling in.

lockstep? it's called reality ray.. It's far easier when you deal in reality. You should try it. The first step would be to get your news from other places besides Fox News and talk radio..

[Oh, Gee!!]

but...but...Janet Reno....errr-err..Clinton.....Lewinsky...ummmmm...ummmm...White water!!!

[DarkReign]

One thing about these forums, all the liberal, progressive types
love to stay in lockstep. All you have to do is get one to say
something and all the rest come piling in.

Well, its about time the party showed some solidarity, theyve been picking at scraps for 15+ years.

Define irony. America's two-party political system is so ed-up and one party is so defunct, that the only way they gain power is when the other party s up so bad, the American people vote them in.

Define "lesser of two evils".

[xrayzebra]

^^I thought I had said that many times.

[DarkReign]

^^I thought I had said that many times.

Well, then youve been right once.

Repubs have always been more organized and focused than Dems.

Dems are a party of cast-offs, of outsiders. Obviously, not every Dem is, but the party does a -job of hiding those ultra-liberal types that turn the public off.

Repubs on the other hand have their share of ultra-conservative, "take over the world" types, but the party does a bang-up job of hiding those individuals. Or in Bush's case, masquerading under a mask of patriotism and false pretense.

Dems are associated with East Coast, big city living New York types.

Repubs are the down home, family values, rural MidWest/South types.

One party realizes their message must apply to the masses, full-well knowing that the masses cant reach a consensus by themselves on anything.

The other party thinks everyone in the country thinks exactly like them and only tailors their pitiful policy on a minute scale to appease the masses.

But who gives a anymore? Electronic voting is going to replace the need to appease the masses anyway.

[ChumpDumper]

One thing about these forums, all the liberal, progressive types
love to stay in lockstep. All you have to do is get one to say
something and all the rest come piling in.

One thing about all these forums, neocon types love to stay in lockstep and try to bring up Clinton whenever some Republican has his ass handed to him.