The Jena Six

[TLWisfoine]

I'm sorry, I thought you started the party issue:



You go on to compare republicans with keeping the blacks down in various postings. I would ask how does that apply when Jena is more democrat then republican?

You see, the thing is, democrats and liberals tend to make empty promises to the black community, to buy there vote. More republicans and conservatives tend to believe in equal rights, and that we are all created equal. For one to say that we have to give something to the black community is the same as saying they are not equal! What an insult!

The pressing issues in the black community should be making them get off their asses and trying to make a better life for themselves, rather than trying to vote in politicians who say they will give them something!

Now you have an exchange about who did what political wise. All the time, nobody is addressing what the black community needs to do to help itself. More republican and conservatives believe in getting out of peoples way so they can improve themselves. Democrats and liberals want to tell everyone how to live and use transfers of money. When you keep someone dependant on a system rather than making them fend for themselves, you maintain a status quo that is not much better than slavery. When dignity is lost, what is there to live for?

Actually, you and your boy ray did. So just tell me this, do you think those politicians in Jena are racist just because they are Democrats?

[TLWisfoine]

\

You really do need to get a life. Funny, black people
being poor is much worst that white people being poor.
And I am a Compassionate Conservative with no
compassion. You are a joke, a really sad joke. You have
no idea of what you want. You just want it and whitey
has kept you from getting it. Funny, though that is not
true. There a many black people who are very successful.
Only you don't see them, because they do like the rest
of mankind, they get up, go to work everyday and
try to get ahead in life. Every study I have seen says the
same thing. Want to get ahead, black/white/yellow/green
or whatever, finish high school and go on to college if
possible. That is the secret to get the young black
person out of the hood. And into a neighborhood of
normalcy. You want me to be compassionate, will that
help all those who live off welfare? How. I ask before
and you still haven't answered: what is my responsibility?
I can guarantee you if I went into a black neighborhood
and started trying to tell some/any family or young
tough hanging on a street corner to get his/her butt
back in school I would be a statistic in a New York
minute. If I tried to go into a black neighborhood and
told them to quit the jive talk and speak real English
the same results would occur. I have no desire to end
my life in that fashion. Look what you say about people
who have made something of their lives and try to tell
you that it is YOU not THEM that has to do the heavy
lifting. No one can live your life for you, that is your
responsibility and yours alone. I learned that the hard
way myself. Thank God! Don't talk down to me about
being poor. My fine adversary, poor is damn well poor
hungry is damn well hungry. And yes, there is nothing
wrong with helping your fellow man, regardless of race.
But helping and supporting them are two different things.
The means to end poverty have always been out there,
the same with homelessness. The poor will always exist,
why, because in most all cases young people will go
through a period of low wages. It is called the starting
point. The secret to improving yourself is called being
dependable. You show up, do the job you are hired to do,
and try doing it better than anyone else. I will guarantee
you success and I don't give a damn what race you are.
I know of what I speak. Those qualities are rare in the
workplace. Even a young person flipping hamburgers
can succeed at McDonalds if he displays those traits. He
will be the boss instead of the flipper and believe me
the boss makes a of a lot more than the worker.
But crying I am being held back cause of whatever
reason is not acceptable. It is not a new thing either.
Believe me many people of all races uses the same lame
damn excuse. So if you will excuse me, I have finished
my dissertation on this race subject.

About Jena, I made the statement which I think has
been shown to be correct. There are many aspects that
have not been reported correctly or otherwise and there
is a good possibility an error in the justice system. It
is in the hands of the court system, not in Jena, so lets
just see what happens.

Well it appears that we are both entrenched in our beliefs and aren't going too be budging anytime soon. I'm done with this as well, my fine adversary.

[DarkReign]

Good, ing, game.

Too
ing
Easy.

MannyIsGod > Wild Cobra

Sooooo, what FPS/MMO do you currently/formerly play?

I have read your tag lines a thousand times, in other places.

GFG?

[DarkReign]

Yes I know why. You can start with this phony war on drugs that goes hard after the users and not the suppliers. Also, how in the is crack cocaine a worse drug than cocaine and why does it carry a heavier prison sentence when you are caught using it. You can thank every black persons hero for that, Bill Clinton.

Also you can point out the disproportianate funding of schools and the cutting of after school programs in the urban cities of America. Unless you are inclined to believe that blacks somehow have this criminal gene that whites don't.

Obviously, its not a "criminal gene". Its poverty. Generational poverty combined with almost-completely-absent education.

Its no question, by ratio, black people commit way more felony crimes than whites. But why is the question?

I have steered away from government intervention as the answer in the sociological persepective of America, and I hold to that. People have to want to change themselves before anyone can help them do it (I am not speaking categorically of black people there).

As for the disparity in school funding. First, the government should not be running out education system. It was never intended to and was vehemently warned against by this country's forefathers, but I digress. The reality is, that they do. With that in mind...

If I am not mistaken, school funding is done on a local level. I can only speak of the Detroit Metro Area (for obvious reasons) where schools, education, lack of $$ are huge issues for the city right now. It has to do with everyone leaving the city except black people. What was once a bustling city 50 years ago is a ghost-town. When population leaves, so do tax dollars on wages in a city like Detroit that has a city tax.

Therefore, less money to fund education (which gets idiot, wanna-be gangsters like Kilpatrick re-elected) and other services to the city's citizens. 48 school closings across the city last year alone.

The problem is exponential. As the population dwindles, the problems get worse and worse. No companies are moving to Detroit to employ, which means the trend of an ever-decreasing yearly population will continue until its death (which, judging by the state's budget crisis and financial ruin, will be quite soon).

Good people live in Detroit...hardworking folks. There is just not enough of them left to cover the detriments. As long as that is the case, the money will never, ever move back in. Which means the city will die. Sad, really.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, you and your boy ray did. So just tell me this, do you think those politicians in Jena are racist just because they are Democrats?

No, not because of party. The point was being made that republicans are racists by remarks in the thread, therefore, I simply pointed out the makeup of the politicians. If democrats were so much better than republicans regarding race, and if this was an issue of prejudice, why is it still happening?

I believe someone said Jena was republican controlled... FALSE...

You forget that the civil rights vote had more than 80% of the republicans voting YES and only about 60% democrat voting YES when it needed a 2/3 vote.

Yes... Republicans free the slaves starting with president Lincoln, and cont9inued through history to be the less racist of the two parties.

You make a claim that democrats changed sides in the south to republicans, and I agree with Ray that some did. So what. That doesn't means it was the racist democrats that switched. Like Zell Miller says "I didn't leave the democrat party, they left me." I say it's more likely the democrats who changed didn't like the shift of the democrat party to the degree of liberalism they moved to. That's why democrats defected! The conservative ones left. It wasn't about race, but right and wrong.

So TL...

You make it about party. I am just showing there is not a connection between the paries as you imply.

[Yonivore]

On the 50th anniversary of President Eisenhower's use of troops during the Little Rock school desegregation crisis, Shelby Steele finds that this event "was the beginning of a profoundly different America." He writes:

[T]he deeper historical importance of the Little Rock crisis follows from the simple fact that it was televised. . . .[T]here was the daily gauntlet that the black students were made to walk--innocence face to face with evil. And, finally, there was great suspense. How would it all end? Would there by a military clash, another little civil war between North and South?

So Americans watched by the millions and, in this watching, saw something that would change the country fundamentally. Every day for weeks they saw white people so consumed with racial hatred that they looked bestial and subhuman. When white racism was a confident power, it could look like propriety itself, like good manners. But here, in its insecurity, it was grotesque and shocking. Worse, it was there for the entire world to see, and so it broke through the national denial. The Little Rock crisis revealed the evil at the core of segregation, and it launched the stigmatization of white Americans as racists that persists to this day. After Little Rock whites stood permanently accused. They would have to prove a negative--that they were not racist--in order to claim decency. And this need to forever beg one's innocence is the very essence of white guilt. . . .

By the mid-1960s this [guilt] had already given us a new illiberal liberalism--a busybody, interventionist liberalism that was more bent on erecting an American redemption than ensuring freedom. The Great Society wanted to make America look like a country in which Little Rock could never have happened. It failed because it was a venture in denial rather than in realistic social transformation. And today's "diversity" will fail because it, too, is only a denial--a kitsch that gives us an image of an America shorn of Little Rocks.

Well said.

Fifty years ago, the face of the civil rights movement was innocent black school children who were trying to get an education. Today, it's black teenagers who beat a white student unconscious and apparently were overcharged by a prosecutor.

We've come a long way, baby.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No, not because of party. The point was being made that republicans are racists by remarks in the thread, therefore, I simply pointed out the makeup of the politicians. If democrats were so much better than republicans regarding race, and if this was an issue of prejudice, why is it still happening?

I believe someone said Jena was republican controlled... FALSE...

You forget that the civil rights vote had more than 80% of the republicans voting YES and only about 60% democrat voting YES when it needed a 2/3 vote.

Yes... Republicans free the slaves starting with president Lincoln, and cont9inued through history to be the less racist of the two parties.

You make a claim that democrats changed sides in the south to republicans, and I agree with Ray that some did. So what. That doesn't means it was the racist democrats that switched. Like Zell Miller says "I didn't leave the democrat party, they left me." I say it's more likely the democrats who changed didn't like the shift of the democrat party to the degree of liberalism they moved to. That's why democrats defected! The conservative ones left. It wasn't about race, but right and wrong.

So TL...

You make it about party. I am just showing there is not a connection between the paries as you imply.

how smart does old zell look now??

By the way you can keep mr spitwad

[Nbadan]

Hey Chumpy, 'black leaders' finally dug down deep enough to bail Bell...

Bail was being posted Thursday for Mychal Bell, a black teenager accused of beating a white classmate, after a district attorney's announcement that he would not appeal a higher court's decision moving Bell's case to juvenile court, according to the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Bell's bail was set at $45,000, Sharpton said. The paperwork was being worked out, he said, and the bail bondsman was at the courthouse.

Earlier Thursday, Bell was moved from jail to a juvenile facility, according to his attorney, Lewis Scott.

LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters said his decision not to appeal was based on what he believed is best for the victim in the case.

"While I believe that a review would have merit ... I believe it is in the best interest of the victim and his family not to delay this matter any further and move it to its conclusion," Walters told reporters.

CNN

[cuongnet]

Wish I new that yesterday. There was a freaking giant roach on the ceiling at home and I tried killing it with my sandal. Bad Idea. That er started flying all over the place. I ran out of there like a little 12 yr old girl. Cant stand those things.

[Nbadan]

By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN

Mychal Bell, one of the Jena Six, sits in his father's home in Jena, La., Thursday, Sept. 27, 2007.(AP Photo/Kita Wright)

NEW ORLEANS (AP) -

When a 17-year-old at the center of a civil rights controversy in a small Louisiana town left jail, he had a stranger to thank.

Dr. Stephen Ayers, who lives about 135 miles away, said he felt compelled to help the family of Mychal Bell by posting the teen's bond and allowing him to go home for the first time in 10 months.

Bell is one of six black teenagers accused of beating a white classmate in the central Louisiana town of Jena, where more than 20,000 demonstrators gathered last week to protest what they perceive as differences in how black and white suspects are treated.

Ayers, 42, of Lake Charles in southwestern Louisiana, said Friday that he isn't politically active and isn't usually one to "get into things like this." But then a patient whose feet hurt after the march gave him a report on the event, in which Ayers did not participate.

AP News

[TLWisfoine]

[B]By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN

Mychal Bell, one of the Jena Six, sits in his father's home in Jena, La., Thursday, Sept. 27, 2007.(AP Photo/Kita Wright)

AP News

How much you want to bet Wild Cobra and his ilk wishes that it was another chair he was sitting in.

[Поповић]

He's been arrested 4 times but he's a sweet little angel.

[Wild Cobra]

How much you want to bet Wild Cobra and his ilk wishes that it was another chair he was sitting in.

You would lose such a bet.

I just want to see justice served. You cannot let someone get away with assault just because they play the race card.

[703 Spurz]

How much you want to bet Wild Cobra and his ilk wishes that it was another chair he was sitting in.

Electric chair no but some sort of punishment. the racism excuses. What these guys did, white and black, aren't right. They all deserve to pay for what they did

[Wild Cobra]

I should have done this sooner. I looked for key word searches with "lasso" and "jena six". My guess about the nooses being lassos is correct!

Jena 6 - The Story:

The following day, September 1, 2006, three nooses were found hanging from the tree in question. Two of the nooses were black and one was gold: the Jena High School colors.

'Jena Six' defendant Mychal Bell released from jail:

"<<<<The following day, September 1, 2006, three nooses were found hanging from the tree in question. Two of the nooses were black and one was gold: the Jena High School colors. >>>>
August 31, Thursday. Two nooses (or lassos) were found hanging from the tree. They were the school colors. Most likely they were lassos from the schools’ rodeo club. [note: Rodeo clubs do not have hangman nooses.]

A black teacher stated in an interview that the kids, white & black, were playing with the nooses/lassos…. Hanging & swinging from them, putting them around their necks, etc. So she took them away from the kids. "

I saw someplace else that they just played a game against the Mustangs!

[Nbadan]

Context is important here WC...you have to remember that Jena has a history of racial tension....if your living in that sort of kettle pot, you certainly don't want to do anything that can be misconstrued....lassos or nooses.....

[Wild Cobra]

Context is important here WC...you have to remember that Jena has a history of racial tension....if your living in that sort of kettle pot, you certainly don't want to do anything that can be misconstrued....lassos or nooses.....

Yes, but still. Not everyone things of the implications of their actions. Especially high spirited school kids, at a school with a rodeo team! The day before the three presumed nooses, was the opposing teams mascot, a mustang, was caught in a lasso. The next day, after the tem win, three lassos. All lassos were of the school colors. Not regular rope. A lasso is also wrapped differently than a noose.

Everyone knew what it meant. You think otherwise? People just wanted to make something out of it that wasn't there. Without looking back, I don't remember the kids name, but one of them has a mother who is a local civil rights leader. It seems to me she misconstrued the incident with the so called nooses.

That goes for the confederate flag also. It gets denounced for slavery, but that is not what it meant. So what. It enrages some people. That's their social insecurities, and we shouldn't have to cater to other peoples problems. They just need to get over it, and not assume everything is racist. When they do, I say that makes then the one who is prejudiced. When political correctness tries to subvert free speech of an action not meant to be one of hate, we know PC is wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

Who hangs lassos from trees?

[ChumpDumper]

That goes for the confederate flag also. It gets denounced for slavery, but that is not what it meant. So what. It enrages some people. That's their social insecurities, and we shouldn't have to cater to other peoples problems. They just need to get over it, and not assume everything is racist. When they do, I say that makes then the one who is prejudiced.

Swastikas are innocent Sanskrit symbols of well-being and anyone who says different is needs to get over it, right?

[Wild Cobra]

Swastikas are innocent Sanskrit symbols of well-being and anyone who says different is needs to get over it, right?

A swastika used by the Germans was specific in color and directional orientation, whereas the swastikas it came from in the Hindu traditions were either right handed or left handed, often had other symbols in the areas within, and generally of other colors. Comparing the swastika with the confederate flag is like comparing squares and rectangles. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is rarely a square.

There are only a limited number of confederate flag designs as with the German swastika. The Hindus had endless designs for their swastika as it is a pattern. Not a symbol. There was often text written in the four sections also. I should have also specified the battle flag rather than the confederate flag. That is what I meant anyway.

In some ways you are right. The swastika became a symbol of Germany which was of oppression. The battle flag was used by states that practiced oppression.

Many people still see the battle flag as a symbol of states rights, and of history. It is still part of the Mississippi flag as well.

The swastika was the symbol of an evil empire. The confederate flag was not. The people who flew the confederate flag in days past and today are not racists just because they fly it. I have never heard of someone using the specific German swastika in any use other than in Nazism. Have you?

If you are to apply the confederate flag to racism, then you must apply all symbols of the period and area as such also. Why isn't that done? My thought is that someone just picked it as a symbol to cry about.

Besides, the confederate flag is a sweet and simple piece of artwork!

Oh I almost forgot. It is a universal symbol for rebels. The south rebelled against the north! I'm pretty sure most people who appreciate it do so for their rebellious nature. Not because the south wanted to keep slavery. Myself, I can be rebellious, and I always liked the Battle Flag.

[xrayzebra]

Interesting about the Confederate flag. The one used by Texas
was the one pictured. Also by six flags over Texas theme park.




A little history on how the "battle" flag came into being.

The first national flag, the Stars and Bars, is the flag most commonly used in the Six Flags of Texas today. It was adopted by the provisional government, and first raised in Montgomery, Alabama on March 4, 1861. As adopted, the Stars and Bars has a blue field with a circle of seven stars, and three horizontal stripes -- red, white and red. It was originally intended that stars would be added as states joined the Confederacy, but the version with just seven stars remained common in Texas, which was the seventh state to join the Confederacy. Texans sometimes modified this flag design by arranging six stars in a circle, with a seventh star in the middle of the circle. This version can been seen in the drawing of the reverse of the state seal on the Secretary of State's Web site.

This flag was used as the Confederate flag until May 1, 1863. However, the strong resemblance between the Stars and Bars and the United States flag created confusion on the battlefield, so a variety of battle flags were subs uted. The most famous of these battle flags is the one originally used by the Army of Northern Virginia. It was a square with a red ground, marked with a blue saltire bordered with white and with a white five-pointed star for each of the Confederate states. A rectangular version of this flag was used as the naval jack.

Although Confederate troops used a number of other battle flags, this flag was one of most popular and widely used. According to the Handbook of Texas Online article on Flags of Texas, in 1906, the United Confederate Veterans designated the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia the flag for use by veterans organizations. Because of its popularity and wide recognition, this flag was sometimes used in Six Flags displays. However, in 1936 the Texas Centennial Exposition opted to use the Star and Bars and the use of the battle flag as one of the Six Flags has declined.

The battle flag design was incorporated into both the second and third national flags of the Confederacy. The second flag, know as the Stainless Banner, flew from May 1, 1863 until March 4, 1865 and was a white banner with the battle flag in the upper corner near the pole. In March of 1865, the Stainless Banner was modified by the addition of a vertical red stripe. Neither later flag is commonly used in Six Flags displays.

[Extra Stout]

Yes, but still. Not everyone things of the implications of their actions. Especially high spirited school kids, at a school with a rodeo team! The day before the three presumed nooses, was the opposing teams mascot, a mustang, was caught in a lasso. The next day, after the tem win, three lassos. All lassos were of the school colors. Not regular rope. A lasso is also wrapped differently than a noose.

I am assuming that you are a relatively educated person, and are not so stupid as to fall for such a lame rationalization of the events.

It is interesting to see how the oral tradition among the racists in Jena for this excuse has spread. First the opposing team was the "Cowboys" and the nooses represented hanging rustlers. Then somebody noticed that Jena did not in fact play a team called the Cowboys, but rather the Mustangs, so the nooses became "lassoes." And, now, there's a nifty new innovation where a mustang is caught in a lasso and the three "lassoes" on the tree are in school colors.

It is propaganda BS which only caters to people who will dismiss the obvious in order to fit the narrative which they would like to believe, which in your case apparently is that there is no such thing as racism, and that any purported case of racism is just black people with an at ude problem.

Nooses hanging from a tree has a long-standing meaning in the Deep South, and it is not "school spirit."

That goes for the confederate flag also. It gets denounced for slavery, but that is not what it meant.

So what did it mean, genius? State's rights, in some high-falootin', eye-dee-yall-istic sense, rather than specifically the "right" of states to keep slavery legal if they so choose? Then why did the Battle Flag in its current form enjoy a renaissance during the Civil Rights Movement? Exactly which "state's right" were them Southern boys advocatin' for, other than the "right" to keep Jim Crow on the books? Exactly who many times do you have to bend your mind to escape a motivation that should be plainly obvious to the most casual observer?

Or what of the other so-called justification, "Heritage, not Hate?" Whose heritage, exactly, other than that of southern whites? Are they any blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, Greeks, Italians, etc. who identify with that flag? Are you happy when Mexican-Americans, citizens of this country, fly the Mexican flag to represent their "heritage?" Would you support a move to get the Tricolores incorporated into the flags of those states which once were part of Mexico? Since when is nationalist ethnic separatism part of the fabric of American ideals? So, what, "multiculturalism" is bad when it is dark-skinned people calling attention to their differences, but it's just wonderful for Anglo-Celtic southerners to do it? And why exactly are southern whites so damn proud of their ancestors' being traitors to America in the first place? Is this some sort of defense mechanism where they know deep down that their culture and heritage is putrid garbage, a stain upon America's history, a legacy of undemocratic aristocratic classism bordering upon feudalism which contradicts the founding ideals of the United States of America -- whose dissemination into modern "conservatism" corrupts our body politic just as much as any other corrosive element does, and that their ancestors fought and died for a worthless cause, indeed for nothing if not the perseverance of evil, but rather than dealing with that, they pretend as though it were something noble, something to be proud of?

And what the is wrong with you that up in Oregon you choose to identify with them? Do you hate America? Do you wish the Confederacy had won? Are you prone to rebel against authority for unjust and self-serving causes?

[xrayzebra]

[QUOTE]And why exactly are southern whites so damn proud of their ancestors' being traitors to America in the first place? [/UNQUOTE]

Traitors in what sense. Much of the fight was about States Rights.
Yes, slavery was part of it. Many were not
so happy about Lincoln (The Federal Government) telling them
could not leave the union. As a matter of fact: "All slaves in the Confederacy were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation, which stipulated that slaves in Confederate-held areas, but not in border states or in Washington, D.C., were free. Slaves in the border states and Union-controlled parts of the South were freed by state action or by the Thirteenth Amendment, although slavery effectively ended in the U.S. in the spring of 1865." (Taken from
Wikipedia American Civil War. So I hardly find the Southerners
as traitors. They had a valid reason for going to war, in their
estimation.

[Extra Stout]

So I hardly find the Southerners
as traitors. They had a valid reason for going to war, in their
estimation.

If treachery can be excused by having a "valid reason" in one's own estimation, then there is no such thing as treason.

Benedict Arnold had a "valid reason" for flipping over to the Tory side, in his own estimation.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I am assuming that you are a relatively educated person, and are not so stupid as to fall for such a lame rationalization of the events.

flawed premise