Okay, I got to a break . . . .
But my point is that its hard to claim that yours is the best team in the league, or even a legitimate contender, when the only teams that you beat at playoff time are low-seeded teams that had average regular seasons. You could compare how the same teams have done against playoff teams that won less than 50 games in the regular season, but I'm not sure what it would prove, other than that a team that struggles against good teams in the playoffs is dominant against crappy teams. Well, now there's quite an accomplishment!!I've ALREADY shredded this argument. Youre right, some teams don't lose to 50+ win teams in the playoffs...they lost to teams who DIDN'T win 50+ games in the playoffs
In any event, you've still yet to deal with my proof that the Suns haven't beaten anyone who's worth a damn in two years, while I've shown that other teams that have a claim to elite status have been more successful in that regard.
Actually, what I've proven is that the Suns can't beat good teams and inflate their playoff performance by beating up on crappy teams. You can say that beating up on crappy teams while losing to good teams is somehow indicative of the fact that the Suns are a great team, but I'd suggest to you that no team ever won a le just by beating up on crappy teams at playoff time.All you've proven is that the Suns don't lose to crappy teams, while others do (or are a crappy team themselves)!
Again, that's the breaks of being in this day and age. The point is that if the Suns are going to be considered legitimate contenders, they must beat either Dallas or San Antonio -- if not both. History, as I've demonstrated, shows that the Suns have consistently failed in that effort; meanwhile, the Spurs have consistently dispatched the Suns and the Mavericks have split with the Suns; that the Mavs have beaten the Spurs doesn't have anything to do with showing that the Suns win against quality opponents at playoff time, which, after all, was my point.Not to mention that the only series that "count" for the Suns are against San Antonio and Dallas. Cleveland and Detroit have never won a series against San Antonio or Dallas. Miami is NDEFEATED!
In any event, thanks for essentially admitting that the Spurs and Mavs have been the dominant playoff teams in the West for the last several seasons.
By the way, in being undefeated against Dallas and San Antonio in playoff series, the Heat have managed to do the very thing that the Suns haven't -- they've beaten a quality playoff opponent when it mattered. Again, that is precisely my point.
I maintain -- what conspiracy? I'm not suggesting that there's some effort to promote the Spurs, Mavs, Pistons, Cavs, or Heat over the Suns; I'm merely proving that when it comes to beating quality teams that the Suns lag substantially behind other teams that have had even a small amount of sustained playoff success.
Again, you're trying to get me to change my argument and I'm not going to do that. My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with overall playoff success, no matter how many times you try to suggest that I'm making that point. I haven't jacked around with criteria at all -- in my first post, I wondered how "elite" teams have fared against playoff opponents who won 50+ games in the regular season. I had a feeling the Suns hadn't done well, and, what do you know? the numbers bore me out on that.
For a franchise that has won 60 games in two of the last three seasons, the inability to beat teams that won 50+ games in the playoffs over that span is remarkable.
See, there again, you're the one changing criteria -- my analysis focuses exclusively on playoff series while using regular season records as a basis to determine whether a team is a quality opponent or not. When you play in the big boy world of NBA championships, regular season head-to-head records don't really mean much.
You're just like the team you follow -- convinced that you've won when all of the objective evidence around you conclusively establishes that you're actually a loser.
I would not EVER want to be you. Then I would be a fan of a loser team.
And that would truly suck. I have no idea what it feels like to be a fan of
such a team. Must feel pretty bad being let down so much.
The inferiority complex must be a terrible weight on one's shoulders.
This is still making my drunk ass head hurt.
Let Odom mania begin
PURE GOLD!
Looks like he relates well to blonde haired bags.
So much for that 'ownage' he was proclaiming...Okay, I got to a break . . . .
But my point is that its hard to claim that yours is the best team in the league, or even a legitimate contender, when the only teams that you beat at playoff time are low-seeded teams that had average regular seasons. You could compare how the same teams have done against playoff teams that won less than 50 games in the regular season, but I'm not sure what it would prove, other than that a team that struggles against good teams in the playoffs is dominant against crappy teams. Well, now there's quite an accomplishment!!
In any event, you've still yet to deal with my proof that the Suns haven't beaten anyone who's worth a damn in two years, while I've shown that other teams that have a claim to elite status have been more successful in that regard.
Actually, what I've proven is that the Suns can't beat good teams and inflate their playoff performance by beating up on crappy teams. You can say that beating up on crappy teams while losing to good teams is somehow indicative of the fact that the Suns are a great team, but I'd suggest to you that no team ever won a le just by beating up on crappy teams at playoff time.
Again, that's the breaks of being in this day and age. The point is that if the Suns are going to be considered legitimate contenders, they must beat either Dallas or San Antonio -- if not both. History, as I've demonstrated, shows that the Suns have consistently failed in that effort; meanwhile, the Spurs have consistently dispatched the Suns and the Mavericks have split with the Suns; that the Mavs have beaten the Spurs doesn't have anything to do with showing that the Suns win against quality opponents at playoff time, which, after all, was my point.
In any event, thanks for essentially admitting that the Spurs and Mavs have been the dominant playoff teams in the West for the last several seasons.
By the way, in being undefeated against Dallas and San Antonio in playoff series, the Heat have managed to do the very thing that the Suns haven't -- they've beaten a quality playoff opponent when it mattered. Again, that is precisely my point.
I maintain -- what conspiracy? I'm not suggesting that there's some effort to promote the Spurs, Mavs, Pistons, Cavs, or Heat over the Suns; I'm merely proving that when it comes to beating quality teams that the Suns lag substantially behind other teams that have had even a small amount of sustained playoff success.
Again, you're trying to get me to change my argument and I'm not going to do that. My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with overall playoff success, no matter how many times you try to suggest that I'm making that point. I haven't jacked around with criteria at all -- in my first post, I wondered how "elite" teams have fared against playoff opponents who won 50+ games in the regular season. I had a feeling the Suns hadn't done well, and, what do you know? the numbers bore me out on that.
For a franchise that has won 60 games in two of the last three seasons, the inability to beat teams that won 50+ games in the playoffs over that span is remarkable.
See, there again, you're the one changing criteria -- my analysis focuses exclusively on playoff series while using regular season records as a basis to determine whether a team is a quality opponent or not. When you play in the big boy world of NBA championships, regular season head-to-head records don't really mean much.
You're just like the team you follow -- convinced that you've won when all of the objective evidence around you conclusively establishes that you're actually a loser.
EVA EVA EVAAAAAAAAAAA RATINGS EVA RATINGS! OWNED!So much for that 'ownage' he was proclaiming...
You always seem to forget BORING . . . .
Is he now? I've had him on my ignore list so long, I'd all but forgotten about him
It's a of a feature for one of a creature!
I appreciate you remarks about my post. I'm glad it wasn't taken as a slight to the Spurs or their fans. That was never my intent. I just fail to grasp this "All they did" mentality about th 2006 Suns. OK, All they did was overachieve with an undermanned, undersized, and, for several key players in the run, formerly underused/underdeveloped roster with two mainstays: Nash and Marion. If you'd have said Nash and Marion would lead a Suns team with three career journeymen (Bell, T.Thomas, House) and three players who were little more than bench fodder the previous season (Diaw, Barbosa, Jones) to the Western Conference Finals where they literally could have won any of the games they lost, in a very closely contested series, then I'd have called you a liar.
It was a marvelous accomplishment, one that should not be deminished.
Was it disappointing when they lost? Sure. I felt they should have won. They easily could have, but they just ran out of gas. Two seven-game series leading up to the Conference Finals will do that to an already road-weary, worn thin team.
I'll give you that the 2006-07 playoffs vs. the Spurs were disappointing. I'll do so for any number of reasons, the vast majority of them having to do with Suns coaching failures, poor handling of rotations, no adequate backup for Nash, misuse/under useage of Thomas and then - and only then - the Horry spectacle where Suns coaches lost their minds, leaving mindless Suns players to act theirs out, causing a scenerio where a miracle was needed for the Suns to survive. No such miracle came, so no such survival ensued.
"Pity 'tis true. Pity 'tis 'tis true"
- Polonius, "HAMLET"
What are we as fans to do? If I had the power to fire D'Antoni, well, I assure you I'd have never hired him for head coach in the first place. ! I'd have never fired Skiles, knowing full well it was all Jason "I get all my coaches at every level of basketball fired" Kidd and Penny "I try my best to be Kidd in the firing of coaces department" Hardaway.
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 09-27-2007 at 05:50 PM.
A Sun's fan with a brain.
Refreshing...
I'd like to think that I not only have a brain, but put it into use, as well
Eva in the stands
No ratings for NBA
Cheap shot Bobs hip check
I'd like to think that I not only have a brain, but put it into use, as well
That you do.
You being a baseball fan further proves that
Re haiku
Dirk chokes a fat one
Cuban Dances on TV
FinDog blames J Rich
Baka inu.
da_suns_fan__ gets owned
Hill makes the team better
Ratings win championships
29 hours to come up with a suitable reply to FWD's post and this is the best you can do?
No wonder people all over you.
losing is okay
ratings are more important
defense is too hard
LMAO! Troll of the Week!!!
Im guessing ElliotFan is my "imposter" as neither one of them realize they don't know how to write a haiku.
As for FromWayDowntown's "fan": Don't you get it? I WON! I don't need to keep posting because I WON!
I don't care if FromWayDowntown continues to type until his fingers bleed (told ya it was going to be LOOOOONG), it doesn't change the fact that he bailed on his "analysis" because I shredded it to death.
Now Texans want me to participate in a re-match!!!
LOL come on man. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Just admit you were raped by everyone you've argued with in this thread.
You won?
Then why haven't you even tried to make a halfway coherent reply to FWD's argument?
Oh yeah, I forgot. This is obviously the last part of the 'how to debate like a dumb ' approach d_s_f uses - fingers in ears, pretending you won, singing "Lalalalalalala, I'm not listening!"
Oh yeah. FYI, I'm not even American. It's not just Texans who think you're a complete dumbass. Congrats, you've reached the point where even people from other countries point and laugh at you.
Hey, declaring I won in 2000 even though I had fewer votes than my opponent worked for me, too.
Too bad you don't have the Supreme Court to back you up.
Don't forget, he's also got cynical, half- goty turbo-nerds laughing at him too.
You won?
Then why haven't you even tried to make a halfway coherent reply to FWD's argument?
Oh yeah, I forgot. This is obviously the last part of the 'how to debate like a dumb ' approach d_s_f uses - fingers in ears, pretending you won, singing "Lalalalalalala, I'm not listening!"
Oh yeah. FYI, I'm not even American. It's not just Texans who think you're a complete dumbass. Congrats, you've reached the point where even people from other countries point and laugh at you.
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