But in this situation, it is exactly the same thing. He stuck up for his teammates by losing it and risking suspension. Where is the strawman?
IMO, Shaq is the exception. I don't think he was very mentally tough...but he didn't have to be. He was so physically imposing and intimidating, he did what he wanted and no one could stop him. He was huge yet amazingly nimble for that size. (when he was in shape.)He was the kind of player physically that we never saw before and will probably never see again.
Holy crap! A ponky sighting!
Again, I never said it makes him mentally strong. I just said that it shows he isn't willing to take crap, which goes into being mentally strong, although he showed a weakness by overreacting to show that he won't take crap.
You said this:
The Spurs took lots of hits from guys over the years and they allowed the officials to take care of it. The only time I ever remember anyone talking about it was when Juwan Howard took out Derek Anderson and then hard fouled Malik Rose a game or two later. The rest of the time they just go to the line and take their shots, huddle up and go play as a team. I guess Amare and Diaw showed toughness. Did them a lot of good, huh?
Howard's never been afraid to voice his displeasure with anything. Ever. What he did doesn't signal a change in at ude of his team one iota. It just shows continued mental weakness by a guy who has a long history of undermining his great talent with meathead decisions.
If you think Shaq is mentally tough and ignored the number of times he totally lost it due to officiating, or hiting Alvin Robertson in the head after arguing with Laimbeer, or swinging for Brad Miller after he got fouled hard by Oakley, that is fine.
And yet I failed to find one single incident where Robinson's performance suffered due to being mentally intimidated.
There is a difference between mentally soft, and mentally dumb. That was not soft by any means. It was dumb by all means.
My last try: Josh has NEVER been willing to take crap, even to the detriment of the team. There's nothing commendable about what he did, and there's nothing tough, mentally or physically, by running up to a big pussy like Miller and hitting him from behind before anybody can separate you, and you should know that if you are a Mavs fan that wants his team to win rather than a blind defender of all things Maverick.
To me, when Howard could be taken off his game and commit stupid acts, that signals mental softness (as in exposing your emotions and allowing it to negatively influencing your game).
Also read other posts by me, saying that you can also make it obvious that you won't take crap by using it as motivation. Some guys back down, and don't really play any harder when people talk crap. Others like Duncan, step it up. And there were also plenty of times when the Spurs took hits from people, and they very clearly voiced their displeasure.
Okay, that made me laugh. I got nothing to say back to that.
Sounds like its more of a judgement issue. He's young and apparently still lets his emotions affect his judgement. That is something that can be learned in time though.Again, I never said it makes him mentally strong. I just said that it shows he isn't willing to take crap, which goes into being mentally strong, although he showed a weakness by overreacting to show that he won't take crap.
Again, mentally dumb and mentally soft are different things. Shaq I felt was mentally tough, but was also at times, very mentally dumb.
And I never said Robinson suffered due to being intimidated. I just said that Shaq had a tougher basketball mentality. Robinson was great. No question about it. He had an MVP, and 2 rings, and is one of the greatest players in NBA history, and a future HOF. So what are you complaining for?
And I never said once that it was commendable. I felt that it was very dumb. But I'd rather him shove someone that acts like a , as opposed to him tucking his tail between his legs, and doing nothing at all, whether in the moment, or in the game.
Is it really so likely that he pulls something like this late in the fourth quarter of a tie game during Game 5 of the 2008 Western Conference Finals against Bruce Bowen? Josh is hotheaded, no doubt. Stupid? Not a chance. This may not have been about losing one's but galvanizing teammates by letting them know you'll jump into a foxhole with them and have their back. Again: IT WAS A PRESEASON GAME. I will bump this thread and eat crow if he pulls this again in May.
Well, thats your opinion. I feel that it isn't a sign of softness. It's a sign of dumbness.
Agreed. But I'd rather have that emotion and fire in a player, as opposed to someone that just doesnt give a , or do , no matter what happens, like Erick Dampier. He a very classy guy, has the ability to be a very good center, but he doesn't do ever.
Emotion and fire are great qualities to have but you have to be able to temper them at times in order to use them fully to your advantage.Agreed. But I'd rather have that emotion and fire in a player, as opposed to someone that just doesnt give a , or do , no matter what happens, like Erick Dampier. He a very classy guy, has the ability to be a very good center, but he doesn't do ever
I hope he doesn't do it in a big game, but Josh has a long history of doing stupid things in big games. He has a long history of losing his cool and shoving people or going off on the officials. None of that made him mentally tough in the playoffs the last two years. Of all the things running the gauntlet through his mind, the situation were probably pretty far down the priority list.
People rarely deviate from what they are, and Josh doesn't show any signs of improvement. Maybe he'll just be able to turn off his temper when the playoffs roll around and the emotions run high. Good luck with that.
Agreed. Emotion and fire have never been qualities that were lacking in Josh Howard.
The best example off the top of my head I can think of "mental toughness" is the Spurs series against Phoenix. Someone has it in their sig. Bowen catches the ball on the wing right by the Suns bench, and they start yelling at him. He just drills a trey in their faces.
Several people are stating it was a dumb thing Howard did. I'll go a step further. If you let Brad Miller, Brad freaking Miller get into your head during a pre-season game, you have no hope of holding it together over the long haul. Shoving a guy in the back like that is like waving a flag that says, "I cannot express myself in a rational way." That's definition of weakness, a man who cannot control his emotions.
I'm all for sticking up for your teammates. However, the refs were right there, and the player wasn't in danger. Why not show how tough you are by drilling a shot right in Miller's face, or going up over the top of him for a rebound? Or boxing him out? Or 15 other things you could do to make him feel like there is no way he's superior on the court to you and your team.
Show mental toughness on the court, with the game clock running. If the other team wants to start something and pick up a tech., accept the free throws and laugh at them for being so foolish.
First of all Brad Miller! Secondly as much as Josh Howard was standing up for a teamate, he needs to control his emotions better. It is just as much of his fault as it is Brad's. Take whatever punishment they give you and learn from it. It is over and done with. Now lets move on.
I recall the real Reggie Miller once saying in an interview that he never bothered to trash-talk the Spurs after it became Popovich's team, becuase the Spurs' players would just ignore him.
LMAO dumb Miller pushed the wrong guy.
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