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We'll just agree to disagree! how about that?
Without TP this team wouldn't be a le contender, he runs the offense well and provides more quickness at the 1 than any guard in the league, creating many of the spurs points with his penetration which breaks down the defense and causes easy baskets.
Manu throws down sick dunks, makes flashy plays, and has a more "all-star" image
We'll just agree to disagree! how about that?
Manu and Parker are both equally as important to the team. And if neither of them make the All-Star team this year they are both a lock for next year's all star team.
If you don't think that scoring is a good indicator of a player's quality, you can't possibly believe in efficiency ratings. Efficiency ratings are fun to talk about but they don't necessarily reveal that one player is better than another.
Your use of efficiency ratings is laughable since you challenge other posters on their use of scoring as an indicator of a player's effectiveness.
Either stats work for you or they don't. You can't skirt the middle and use stats when they work in your favor and ignore them when they don't. In a way, those you are bantering with have more coherent arguments because they are consistent.
That statement is just as subjective as anything else anyone is saying in this thread. If you're going to challenge others for not bringing and argument, then humor me: prove to me that Manu is 'far' better than Parker regarding basketball IQ. And please define 'far.'(where Manu is faaar better than Tony, wasn't considered in the original answer)
The fact is, if you believe in efficiency ratings as a tell-all, you believe that Shawn Marion is better than Shaq and Kobe, Dirk Nowitski is better than Duncan, Brad Miller is better than Steve Nash, and Kurt Thomas is better than Manu. While efficiency ratings can be useful, I'll take Sequ's observations over a bunch of statistics that you use only selectively.
Personally, I'm not sure that Parker is better than Manu. But I do think he's more important to the team. I think he's more important because he'd be more difficult to replace, he has less nights where he contributes very little than Manu does, and he can play more minutes without completely wearing himself out. After watching both for most of the season, I'm convinced that Manu is about as good as he's going to get and that Tony can still improve. Tony is younger and has more upside.
Is Tony a better player? I wouldn't say that. But if forced to choose, I would take him over Manu. And not because some efficiency rating that also 'proved' Marion is better than Kobe would tell me to. Watching games has taught me so much more.
I've lost all respect for your takes then
Sequ has copied a post of mine that was talking about how Manu and Parker aren't really that inconsistent. It wasn't meant as a pure comparison between the two, but to show the doubters that they are pretty consistent. In no way was it meant to be a compe ion between the two.Considering Manu is way more efficient at scoring, that statement is false. Manu makes more FTs at a better %, and hits more 3pters, and takes less shots in general.
Im not arguing who the better player is cause I think they have the same value, but to say Parker has been scoring more efficiently and even way more consistently, is flat out false.
Btw Sequ, if you are going to copy and paste someone elses posts, give them credit and dont add extra things like "Parker wins" at the end.
Not to mention using the post in the wrong ing context. Not meant for comparison between the two and there consistency versus each other, there is to many variables for those stats to be exact if used to compare players.Sequ has hit rock bottom... he cannot even come up with his own sheyittt and he has to plagiarize material from some other poster without acknowledgment
Just for the record, I think the EFF rating on NBA.com is awful in comparison with other methods of determining a players efficiency.
Plus it does not take into account PACE of games, or what the opponents do against you. Its just a simple ac ulation of stats minus turnovers. Does not tell the whole story or even a decent one at that.
Mi21?
WTF are you talking about?
Don't be a wuss. Your breakdown specifically shows that Parker is above Manu Ginobili. As far as inconsistent goes. Parker is the definition. Watch a game and put down your calculator their chief.Sequ has copied a post of mine that was talking about how Manu and Parker aren't really that inconsistent. It wasn't meant as a pure comparison between the two, but to show the doubters that they are pretty consistent. In no way was it meant to be a compe ion between the two.
Btw Sequ, if you are going to copy and paste someone elses posts, give them credit and dont add extra things like "Parker wins" at the end.
Next time you don't want your hard work copied, then file for a copyright so no one won't infringe on it.
Next time you want to discuss something, drop me a pm or meet me at the HEB on Military and Zarzamora.
Keep up the great work MI21. You made my argument easier.
Parker > Manu.
Who gives a ! They are on the same team for the billionth time!
Exactly bro.......
But Parker should get the nod before Manu.
Perhaps I did go a little too far with that oneI've lost all respect for your takes then
I’m new here and I have some questions and some comments for you.
Do you really think there is not any compe ion between TP and Manu to be the second offensive option?
Do you think there is not any kind of jealous from TP to Manu?
Did you see the TP forced smile each time Manu scored against the Suns? I saw that at least six times, the guys from ESPN showed that many times because it was a very particular at ude.
Did you see at least one time Tony cheering Manu for a score or something?
Obviously I'm Manu fan, but I'm wrong?
Thank you for your answers.
Cheers,
To Tony lovers and Manu bashers?
Manu have better Effciency stats AND better '+/- stats' (2 former regular seasons and playoff), that's a FACT easy to verify, not a subjective statement. Now some questions....
why everyone tries to discard Efficiency stats and rely on just scoring for stating that tony is better?
Why no one talk about the better '+/- stats'?
why try to discard Efficiency ranking based on comparisons between players from DIFFERENT teams?
why don't you check NBA teams and see wich players have the highest efficency? wouldn't the best players would have the best efficiency, when comparing players of the SAME TEAM? Does it happen the same with scoring? (Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman?)
Why don't you ask some friends of yours with real basketball knowledge and ask them if it isn't noticeable that Manu has greater Basketball IQ than Tony? would you tell the answers gotten here?
Why Tony didn't show leadership and Manu did ? (wheter in Euroleague, on his NT or when Tim was injured?)
I'll b waiting for these answers.
I love Parker in Leading the SPURS! BUT BUT BUT
I would Love to see MANU running/leading the ALLSTAR team! (as a Point Guard)!!!!!!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhh MAAAAAAAMMMMA!
Tony was the first one to jump off the bench when Manu dunked in overtime.... don't read too much into it.....
More than 150,000 peolpe thin that Manu is Better than Tony
There are 426,406 people in the All Star Ballot who think that Manu is one of the 2 better guards of the NBA and 274,521 who think that tony is one of the 2 best ones and consider that many put a PG and a SG, and while Tont only has of Rival to Nash, Manu has to Kobe, T-Mac and Ray Allen
Probably yes, but the Only Happy Face of Tony in The 4th and The Overtime
must have been that, but In all that time had Poker Face
Remember Manu said that Tony had "flu-like" symptoms... You wouldn't look all that excited if you were benched because you couldn't perform while sick.
So why is Parker>Manu?
Because he isn't a hot dog?
If you think Manu is a hot dog/balla from And 1, then wtf do you think AI is?
Manu has proven that he is a good leader, and is just more exciting.period.
Manu led his team in Olympics.
He also stepped up during Duncan's injury last year.
I think you people are going too far with this whole Tony/Manu rivalry. Those of you who claim TP doesn't celebrate when Manu scores, haven't been watching very closely, I've seen him high five, jump up, laugh and do all sorts of things after a Manu-esque performance. IMO they both respect each other, and they are both extremely good basketball players which brings with itself an inherent sort of friendly compe ion. Having said that, I also believe that TP is more of the kind of guy that likes to show off, and Manu isn't as much. I know, I know, you wouldn't think so after seeing some of the plays he does, but I would dare say that's just the way he plays, fancy only when he has to.
Right. Tony was sick that day. He didn't do much cheering at all. There's nothing but love and respect between Tony and Manu. People have been trying to say that they don't like each other for the past couple years. It's ridiculous. They are teammates with a common goal -- a championship. And it will take great games by both of them to get there.Remember Manu said that Tony had "flu-like" symptoms... You wouldn't look all that excited if you were benched because you couldn't perform while sick.
Thank you Hegamboa for your answer but please see again the video and put focus on my comment about Tony face in the whole game. If he not jumped after that incredible Manu's dunk would be too much.
That's really not important but show something, which is natural because in some way they are competing, that is almost obvious.
Anyway, Tony is one of the best spg on the NBA with an incredible future but probably because his youth show by now some of this at ude.
Cheers,
POINTS??
so bowen should be traded... Tp handles all the game of spurs... manu is a creative player who brings so nice moves and has proven he can be a "killer" for scoring when it counts...
how can you compare them... they dont even play at the same position. But one thing is sure.... both will improve. Parker has been able to shut down some great PG like nash, arenas... i would not have done it some seaons ago for sure.
Manu has scored 48.... don't think he would have been able to do it last season, he has stepped up.... i used to watch him in Europe.... he was even better than today cause he had more responsabilities... during olympic tournament, he impressed everybody...
but please dont value a player on how many points he can score during ONE night... yesterday, scalabrine scored something like 30..... so you would suddenly place him on the all star list.... please...
NO leadership for the french team... how can write this??
Tp has been playing really well during the last matchs.... some other players just sucked like wahad or moiso, but tp scored when he had too and even took the last shot ( even if at this time he failed badly!!)
who is shooting on the court each night.. tp or manu, i bet it's more tp who has to control all the attack...
i think everybody forget something... TP is the point guard of.... of who???.... of popovich....!!!!! that means that 90% of the systems are effective and 50% are targeted to Tmi duncan who decide then to score or to pass....
every points that tp scores.. he creates his own shoot or layup.. what about he had more systems for him.... sure he could score more
but is it what spurs need.. no, and tp is a great pg because he accepts and likes this discipline and organisation... he's unselfish like manu, bruce.. even rasho used to score more in minesota... but who care's.....
is basketball a statistic game or a collective game??
i meant "shouting" r talking on the court
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