Ukraine

[clambake]

Should there be any type of restrictions as far as what type of arms people are allowed to own?

if no, you think it should be legal to own nukes

if yes, you think 2A allows for some restrictions on the right to bear arms, and it’s just a matter of agreeing on where that line is

I like your civility with joey….while he is screaming

[Winehole23]

Endgame is pretty simple, Russia will not be a threat to the West and will bleed out to irrelevancy again. That will demand sacrifices from the West, sure, but as much as Russia is trying to hide it, it's only a matter of time until their economy collapses. Right now their trajectory is to become the next North Korea.

Ukrainians are doing the heavy lifting now, but this can easily spill, considering Putler managed to bring in historically neutral countries into the West sphere of influence. But Russia neither can afford or win a World War, despite the rhetoric. The biggest problem is that they cornered themselves and haven't given themselves an out.

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

This conflict seems dangerous to all sides, tbh.

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Invictus



Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank what ever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of cir stance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scrolls,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

[Thread]

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

Tell it, Winester.
Testify!!!

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[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

This conflict seems dangerous to all sides, tbh.

What kicked off the situation of the nineties was the collapse of the Soviet regime. Now that period had Chernobyl blow up on top of a failed war in Afghanistan and prolonged economic stagnation. Thing is that Russia has been experiencing growth for over a decade in the present day. This is not a long suffering Soviet people inured to Stalin's pogroms.

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Let us proceed...

[velik_m]

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

This conflict seems dangerous to all sides, tbh.

EU imposed sanctions unanimously. They will require consent of all members of EU to be removed. They might be more permanent than US sanctions.

Comparing 90s Russia's economy crash to this one is stupid. That was not a result of sanctions and Russia was bailed out by the west who was eager to have a free and democratic Russia. There is no more illusion of that possibility with this regime. Sanctions will not be removed until Russia demonstrates that it's no longer a danger to the rest of Europe. That would require at the very least a new democratic regime, reparations to Ukraine, maybe even giving up nukes. It's not happening.

Russia is ed, their GDP is already projected to fall 30% by the end of the year. Their imports have fallen by 85%. Europe will reorient to northern Africa for energy needs. Russia has no-one else to sell their energy to in Europe and that is pretty much all they sell. No-one will invest in Russia. Even doing business any business in Russia might be too risky, possibly locking you out of the much larger and richer western market.

Their only hope is China, but that will come with a price and I'm not even sure China can afford to prop-up a massive kleptocracy that in Russia.

[ElNono]

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

This conflict seems dangerous to all sides, tbh.

Pre-conflict they were already not even a top 10 economy in the world, and you can count the number of countries in their "multipolar world" with one hand. There's going to be bumps on the road, but it's absolutely clear who has more to lose the longer this stretches out.

IMO, this boils down to something pretty simple: nobody wants to deal with a neighbor who's a bully and you can't take seriously anything he says. Ukraine so far has been nothing but a landgrab and flat out stealing resources.

Today is Ukraine, tomorrow is Moldova... if you were in Poland or Germany shoes, do you really want to be their neighbor next?

Even if Ukraine bends the knee tomorrow, the sanctions are not going anywhere. The conditions for those sanctions to go away at this stage are a full withdrawal, returning Crimea as well, and a worldwide apology tour. It's not happening, not with this midget.

So the pressure is going to stay there until this midget starts feeling some internal pressure or goes away. In the meantime, Russia continues to be isolated, going the way of North Korea, the US keeps making money with weapons, oil and liquified gas, and Europe rebuilds it's energy infrastructure and builds up their army in case the bully steps out of line.

Also, Russia imploded in the '90s. Sure, the average Russian might've survived worse, but the country itself, leadership, politics, etc completely blew up. If that were to happen now, that's exactly what the West would want, as it implies a regime change.

Is it dangerous? It's always dangerous when you have a lunatic dictator at the wheel. But the danger is not going to go away by bending over.

[ElNono]

Here's the big miscalculation from Putler: He thought Europe would just look the other way like it did with Crimea when they tried to pull this off, but Europe has seen this as a war on Europe, and a dictator on a power trip.

He should've planned to have an exit strategy and the possibility to give himself an out, but he didn't. He has been embarrassed already and forced to scale down the goals of the war when it became clear he couldn't take over the country.

Not only he re-united Europe, but also caused countries with economies much larger than his to start spending serious money on defense, just to stop him if he gets any funny ideas. He brought new countries, some of his neighbors, into NATO.

There's simply no angle where you can look at this and objectively conclude this has been positive for Russia, or their stated goal to be a leader again in this world.

[pgardn]

What kicked off the situation of the nineties was the collapse of the Soviet regime. Now that period had Chernobyl blow up on top of a failed war in Afghanistan and prolonged economic stagnation. Thing is that Russia has been experiencing growth for over a decade in the present day. This is not a long suffering Soviet people inured to Stalin's pogroms.

Most of the growth is in very specific sectors thus in their case, individuals.
They definitely look good compared with the poorer Eastern Europe countries Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine...
But This is a country with huge economic potential that has managed corruption and inefficiency in a magnificent manner.
And now the world, especially Russia and Ukraine, just got a whole lot poorer. Basically money has been spent on transferring destruction to a particular region in the world imo.

[hater]

"The West"



Nobody respects these losers anymore

Greek dogs

[hater]

I guess I am not as sanguine as you that Russia will bleed out economically before our European allies cave. Russia survived worse in the 1990s -- well within living memory for many Russians -- and it isn't the 1990s anymore. It's not like Russia's not going to be able to find export markets for its various raw goods and its industrial base might actually be up to the task of import subs ution this time around. I mean, you could be right, but I don't see how it's inevitable. I think there's a nonzero chance our European allies could find the economic price too high before Russia gives up.

This conflict seems dangerous to all sides, tbh.

Yup Russians can eat shoes.

European dogs cant. They are pussies. They will fold first. No doubt

Doesnt matter. Thats what US wants. EUROPEANS bent over so Sam can ram that all the way in

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Let us proceed...

[Ef-man]

More fine shooting.

[Ef-man]

[pgardn]

Yup Russians can eat shoes.

European dogs cant. They are pussies. They will fold first. No doubt

Doesnt matter. Thats what US wants. EUROPEANS bent over so Sam can ram that all the way in

So why dont you go permanently naked and bold into the wilderness and give us a feeling for how liberating eating shoes can be?
And am I supposed to or just

I need to know the pictures you understand.

[pgardn]

I like your civility with joey….while he is screaming

He is a lawyer. He might practice the art of convincing rhetoric based on reasoning when some of us use claw hammers.
btw, these also fall under weapons to be used when massacres in Uvalde is the goal, very efficient machines.

Two functionalities in one implement.

[horseshue]

So why dont you go permanently naked and bold into the wilderness and give us a feeling for how liberating eating shoes can be?
And am I supposed to or just

I need to know the pictures you understand.

There are some truth to what hater is saying. In russia there is a belief that americans will stop fighting if they run out of toilet paper, while russians can wipe their ass with finger.

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There are some truth to what hater is saying. In russia there is a belief that americans will stop fighting if they run out of toilet paper, while russians can wipe their ass with finger.

...the only American/s fighting over here is Biden. He's just jazzed he ain't out at Dover &&& still can fight Putin. It's like shaved pussy, like money from home.

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RED ROVER, RED ROVER LET VLADDY COME OVER


BOOM!!!

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AN OLDIE, BUT A GOODY...

CHARGE!!!

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"Strictly the dregs."