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  1. #1776
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I said no casual chain OTHER than the one scientists are trying to form. We all believe in causal chains, and folks who don't believe in divine intervention are bound to one chain to explain everything. I'm with those people.
    If you believe a god initiated the big bang, you believe in a causal chain. I am curious though, why just one god? Where did the god go? What makes you think there was ever a god to begin with?
    Deism is part of theism. It's not a matter of individual interpretation. Theism is the belief that god exists. Deists believe god exists. Therefore, deists are theists.
    Deism is part of theism like atheism is a belief. You technically do not even believe a god exists, just that one once did. If you believe a god exists now, where does the god reside, what contact have you had with the god, what evidence do you have, what doctrine, what rationale other than some smart men who were too ahead of their time to call themselves atheists were claiming to be deists?
    As far as your judgment of deists go, we just disagree. You believe what you do about it because you still equate religion and theism. Therefore, you see deism as being close to atheism. But I don't think so. Rather, it fills one of the four squares in the cross-plot of religion/non-religion and theism/atheism.
    No it doesn't. Fundamentally it's a notion that you harbor that an en y either exists now that's basically irrelevant or that one once existed that's still irrelevant. It's not grounded in reason and science, and it's just a weaker version of the god of the gaps approach.

    If we laid all our cards on the table, the majority of us have doubts about all of it, and none of us have an absolute certainty regarding deities. Some of us however are ok with admitting that we require more evidence than we've seen to actually profess a belief in the existence of something as extraordinary as a god.

  2. #1777
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    anybody who has ever looked at the sun

    You are seeing the light energy given off, not the atom changing states.
    And it's more fusion, hydrogen to helium.
    But point well taken.

  3. #1778
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    "reason" I came from a fish.

  4. #1779
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    I think Heisenberg did, but I'm no certain about it.
    He did not see this.

    He helped model it mathematically.

  5. #1780
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    He did not see this.

    He helped model it mathematically.
    I think he saw it but didn't actually know it's velocity, or he knew it's velocity but closed his eyes... something to that effect.

  6. #1781
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    "reason" I came from a fish.
    You came from a vagina that smelled like a fish. Not the same thing.

  7. #1782
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I think Heisenberg did, but I'm no certain about it.
    hah, i beat you to the edit

  8. #1783
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    You came from a vagina that smelled like a fish. Not the same thing.
    How would you know that? You enjoy smelling fishy vaginas?

  9. #1784
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    hah, i beat you to the edit
    I still ed it up

  10. #1785
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    How would you know that? You enjoy smelling fishy vaginas?
    Cause I'm your dad.

  11. #1786
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    These guys think you have to see a fish turn into a reptile...

    There is actually a lot more evidence to see this, than a hydrogen atom changing states.
    But you never see these guys arguing about hydrogen atoms, or water molecules, which they have never seen.

  12. #1787
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Cause I'm your dad.

  13. #1788
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    These guys think you have to see a fish turn into a reptile...

    There is actually a lot more evidence to see this, than a hydrogen atom changing states.
    But you never see these guys arguing about hydrogen atoms, or water molecules, which they have never seen.
    It doesn't matter what the unwashed, uneducated believe. Burgers aren't going to flip themselves.

  14. #1789
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  15. #1790
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    These guys think you have to see a fish turn into a reptile...

    There is actually a lot more evidence to see this, than a hydrogen atom changing states.
    But you never see these guys arguing about hydrogen atoms, or water molecules, which they have never seen.
    Where did water come from?

  16. #1791
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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  17. #1792
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    If you believe a god initiated the big bang, you believe in a causal chain. I am curious though, why just one god? Where did the god go? What makes you think there was ever a god to begin with?

    Deism is part of theism like atheism is a belief. You technically do not even believe a god exists, just that one once did. If you believe a god exists now, where does the god reside, what contact have you had with the god, what evidence do you have, what doctrine, what rationale other than some smart men who were too ahead of their time to call themselves atheists were claiming to be deists?

    No it doesn't. Fundamentally it's a notion that you harbor that an en y either exists now that's basically irrelevant or that one once existed that's still irrelevant. It's not grounded in reason and science, and it's just a weaker version of the god of the gaps approach.
    I don't think you get what I am saying about chains. I do believe in one. It's the same one you believe in. It's not a special one like it is in religions.

    You can't seem to understand the separation. It's not a hard concept to get, really. Where did god go? Were does a programmer go when they're letting their simulation run? Just because god started it, doesn't have to mean he's constantly tinkering with it.

    Again, you keep being stubborn in or equivalency of religion and theism. So you don't understand that there are four genera or belief generated by these dichotomies. You keep insisting there are two by misrepresenting the third genus. You haven't even addressed the fourth genus of atheistic religion. You're missing the entire structure of the issue, which is as bad of a folly as anyone in this thread has made.

  18. #1793
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    These guys think you have to see a fish turn into a reptile...

    There is actually a lot more evidence to see this, than a hydrogen atom changing states.
    But you never see these guys arguing about hydrogen atoms, or water molecules, which they have never seen.
    Will anyone ever be able to observe a fish to a reptile?

  19. #1794
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Where did water come from?
    poseidon, you dumb

  20. #1795
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Will anyone ever be able to observe a fish to a reptile?
    did anybody observe your grandfather giving birth to you?

  21. #1796
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    . I should of known.

  22. #1797
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    did anybody observe your grandfather giving birth to you?
    Yes, a bird was there and saw it all go down.

  23. #1798
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    I think he saw it but didn't actually know it's velocity, or he knew it's velocity but closed his eyes... something to that effect.
    Human eyes can't see atoms.

    You are correctly thinking about assessing its position indirectly thereby screwing with its momentum, so you can't assess this quan y. One can only indirectly measure one or the other.

    but...

    These guys think you have to see an ape like animal turn into a human for it to be so...
    They can't believe anything unless they personally witness the event.
    Good luck with that.

  24. #1799
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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  25. #1800
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    Human eyes can't see atoms.

    You are correctly thinking about assessing its position indirectly thereby screwing with its momentum, so you can't assess this quan y. One can only indirectly measure one or the other.

    but...

    These guys think you have to see a ape like animal turn into a human for it to be so...
    They can't believe anything unless they personally witness the event.
    Good luck with that.
    Not true at all. I believe in God and I've never seen him.

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