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  1. #1801
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Owners have won the war. Players are taking a 12.3% paycut an the system will be more owner friendly than the previous one.

    Now, the question that will never be answered is if it was unavoidable or if players would have done better y being more aggressive (desertification and threat of creating a new league).

    I'm also quite pessimistic about Spurs' future given Holt at ude during the negotiations. With Duncan being done, Spurs were in a awfully difficult spot and I can easily see now some agents pushing for their players not to go to SA. It's going to get ugly.
    I think it's an empty threat. Mid-level Free agents are going to steer clear of 1/6th of the league in San Antonio, Phoenix, Cleveland, Charlotte, and Portland? (obviously high-end free agents will avoid them because of market size) Every one of their owners has been towing a line as hard as Holt's. The Spurs have never been able to build through free agency. They couldn't do it with a max salary slot and a young core coming off a championship; they surely won't do it as a declining team.

  2. #1802
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    I think it's an empty threat. Mid-level Free agents are going to steer clear of 1/6th of the league in San Antonio, Phoenix, Cleveland, Charlotte, and Portland? (obviously high-end free agents will avoid them because of market size) Every one of their owners has been towing a line as hard as Holt's. The Spurs have never been able to build through free agency. They couldn't do it with a max salary slot and a young core coming off a championship; they surely won't do it as a declining team.
    What you can fear is that best MLE players go to franchise with a player friendly owner and the rest of MLE players goes to teams like Spurs. Spurs have been able to attract coveted players like Finley and Dice. It will be harder to do so with Holt's at ude during this lockout.

    I think Holt will be one of the most hated owners by agents alongside Jordan and Paul Allen. Holt saying that players haven't suffered enough surely won't be forgotten.

  3. #1803
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    What you can fear is that best MLE players go to franchise with a player friendly owner and the rest of MLE players goes to teams like Spurs. Spurs have been able to attract coveted players like Finley and Dice. It will be harder to do so with Holt's at ude during this lockout.

    I think Holt will be one of the most hated owners by agents alongside Jordan and Paul Allen. Holt saying that players haven't suffered enough surely won't be forgotten.
    Eh, Holt has been a driving force behind most of the player "unfriendly" CBA issues since he became an owner. I don't doubt that has meant consequences in the past for the Spurs. This just means more of the same to me.

  4. #1804
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    What you can fear is that best MLE players go to franchise with a player friendly owner and the rest of MLE players goes to teams like Spurs. Spurs have been able to attract coveted players like Finley and Dice. It will be harder to do so with Holt's at ude during this lockout.

    I think Holt will be one of the most hated owners by agents alongside Jordan and Paul Allen. Holt saying that players haven't suffered enough surely won't be forgotten.
    If the Spurs land another Tim Duncan, draft good talent around him, and start competing for les again, I have no doubt they'll replicate their past mid-level signings like Horry, Barry, Finley, and McDyess.

  5. #1805
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Holt has shown himself to be a jack-hole. It'll be harder cheering for his team after this.

  6. #1806
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Eh, Holt has been a driving force behind most of the player "unfriendly" CBA issues since he became an owner. I don't doubt that has meant consequences in the past for the Spurs. This just means more of the same to me.
    Eh, Holt wasn't that involved in the previous lockout. And if you add things like Spurs low-balling their first round picks, I'm sure Spurs don't have the bast reputation among some agents.

    In the past, Spurs have been able to build the team thought he draft (Duncan, Ginoibli and Parker). Pop was also a huge reason why players come to SA (remember Finley) and he won't be here forever. If in the future, Spurs need to improve their team through FA, they will have an even harder time to do so.

  7. #1807
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Eh, Holt wasn't that involved in the previous lockout. And if you add things like Spurs low-balling their first round picks, I'm sure Spurs don't have the bast reputation among some agents.

    In the past, Spurs have been able to build the team thought he draft (Duncan, Ginoibli and Parker). Pop was also a huge reason why players come to SA (remember Finley) and he won't be here forever. If in the future, Spurs need to improve their team through FA, they will have an even harder time to do so.
    I just don't see how this makes it any worse. He already had a rep.

  8. #1808
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    I just don't see how this makes it any worse. He already had a rep.
    From bad to worse.

  9. #1809
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    From bad to worse.
    It's a matter of opinion. If they really don't like it that much, they shouldn't take the deal.

  10. #1810
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    It's a matter of opinion. If they really don't like it that much, they shouldn't take the deal.
    Eh, agents don't vote.

  11. #1811
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Eh, agents don't vote.
    As much influence as they have in a player's decision to sign with a team.

  12. #1812
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    As much influence as they have in a player's decision to sign with a team.
    Well, not really.

  13. #1813
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Well, not really.
    Why not?

  14. #1814
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    It's a business. People suggesting that people are going to take this personally for years to come are just wrong. This happens everywhere in the work world.

  15. #1815
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious.

    First, asking a player to turn down a CBA offer and stay unemployed is way more difficult than saying to a player he should rather sign with this franchise because the owner is better.

    Second, votes are kept secret. A player can disobey to his agent by voting for a CBA and the agent won't even know it.

  16. #1816
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious.

    First, asking a player to turn down a CBA offer and stay unemployed is way more difficult than saying to a player he should rather sign with this franchise because the owner is better

    Second, votes are kept secret. A player can disobey to his agent by voting for a CBA and the agent won't even know it.
    So they don't get to vote on where the player signs either.

    OK.

  17. #1817
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    So they don't get to vote on where the player signs either.

    OK.
    What you're saying makes no sense.

  18. #1818
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    What you're saying makes no sense.
    It's quite obvious.

  19. #1819
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious.
    Yep, you got it.
    It's time for you to regroup and comes back with a stronger argument.

  20. #1820
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Yep, you got it.
    It's time for you to regroup and comes back with a stronger argument.
    Not at all. It's quite obviously complete.

  21. #1821
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Not at all. It's quite obviously complete.
    Well, not really.

  22. #1822
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Well, not really.
    Again, a matter of opinion.

  23. #1823
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Again, a matter of opinion.
    It's quite obvious.

  24. #1824
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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  25. #1825
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious.
    That is something upon which we agree.

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