2025 NBA Offseason Thread

[Seventyniner]

If Paul wants really tò be back in Phoenix, why dont Explore the chance of a trade exception or some players back from them (ex Fleming or Richards considering we still have big men spot available)?

Can Paul to PHO and Kornet to SA can be structured as a three-team deal with them being S&T'd, or two simultaneous two-team deals, where BOS ends up with a trade exception in the end? They probably would never use it cause they want to shed salary but at least they get something out of the deal.

[LeBowen]

Keldon's contract isn't an issue, but him being a part of the rotation is because he's outlived his purpose.
He was effective only when he got the ball and could attack the paint in certain matchups, but even that was random most of the time as he always tunnel visions on his drives.
With the addition of Harper, Keldon can't have the ball and him being a poor shooter makes him completely useless. Not to mention that he's arguably the worst defender on the team.
Him being the longest tenured player on the team probably means he won't start getting DNPs, meaning everyone will have to adjust to an awful player who's a net negative on both ends of the floor.

Vassell on the other hand has become a high risk contract. Right now he probably has neutral value and the takes of Spurs trying to get his value back up are reasonable.
The thing is that the chance of his value going down are just as big and if he has another poor season then we'll be stuck with a negative contract that has 3 years left.
There's very no cap space around the league and better players than Devin are getting worse contracts.
As for his basketball fit, trying to re-develop a score first, iso shot creator into an off the ball catch and shoot player isn't as easy as it seems. He's a rythm player and isn't used to not having the ball.
His size is also an issue because it negates all the size advantage Castle and Harper have over guards by pushing them down to match up with SFs.

Right now the most likely starting lineup is Fox/Vassell/Castle/Barnes/Wemby. How do we even make that work without having awful matchups on defense?
Castle is the point of attack defender, meaning one of Fox/Vassell will be stuck guarding a SF, not to mention that Barnes will get overwhelmed in most matchups.
You might say that we should start Sochan instead of Vassell or Barnes, but then our spacing gets ed with Castle/Sochan duo, barring some miraculous improvement in their 3pt shooting over the summer.

I want Keldon and Devin gone because I'm scared we'll be the victims of trying to keep everyone happy for another year and that our lineups won't be based on merit, but contract size and tenure.
Modern basketball is about creating lineups with 5 players that fit together well and not about playing 5 best individuals.

Look no further from the end of 23-24 season when we were garbage, Devin/Keldon/Jeremy got shut down for tanking purposes, then we finished the season 4-4 with Champagnie and Mamu playing major roles because they fit better with Wemby.
Same happened in 24-25 season, Devin and Jeremy were injured, only for CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup to look very good. Then things went downhill when those two recovered.

We need two 6'7-6'10 wings who can shoot the 3pt well starting alongside our ballhandlers, it's as simple as that.
If Bryant's shot translates to the NBA and he's not a negative on defense, he'll already be our best wing as a rookie.

[Ariel]

I don't understand wanting to get off Keldon's salary when it doesn't hurt the team since it expires before Wemby's extension starts, but not wanting to get off Vassell's four year deal which badly hurts the team and makes it a pain to sign Castle.

Moving Vassell is probably going to be a lot more costly given his contract, unless he takes a leap this year. But if an opportunity arises from a team that doesn't see him as a negative contract, then Spurs should take it. On the other hand, I have less faith in Keldon making any improvements, but his contract being a lot shorter means that, for trade purposes, he's almost an expiring next season, so he's more palatable for any team taking him, similarly to what happened with Zach Collins in the Fox trade. So, at least in my case, that's where I see trying to rehab Vassell's value makes sense, not because I love him long term, but because otherwise I don't think it's likely the Spurs can move him without added assets in this environment where an NBA finalist prefers to let go their starting center with a highly coveted archetype (floor spacing rim protector) rather than paying him over 20 million a year.

[spurraider21]

Vassell on the other hand has become a high risk contract. Right now he probably has neutral value and the takes of Spurs trying to get his value back up are reasonable.
The thing is that the chance of his value going down are just as big and if he has another poor season then we'll be stuck with a negative contract that has 3 years left.

i think i agree with Chinook that the spurs arent looking for ways to move off vassell or time is value. they want to see him through. sure, the durant opportunity would have you consider moves you otherwise wouldnt, but i dont see them urgently looking to offload their only capable movement shooters right now

[baseline bum]

2 things:

1) Most of the people who are against trading Vassell are still holding out hope he can look better in a different environment. He’s shown more flashes than Keldon and it’s not insane to think he can be a better defender or more efficient if he takes a smaller role. Not saying it’s a guarantee, but some people (and seemingly the Spurs) will take that bet.

2) Vassell at least has more use to this current roster. Let’s say we move Vassell for Collins…we replace one shooter (yes, I know he’s not lights out but you at least have to guard him on the perimeter) with another. We would then be down to just 3 guards that are actually relevant and be stuck with a million guys who really need to play the 3 or 4.

It’s not that I’m thrilled with Vassell’s contract or think it’s a total non-issue. It’s just not to the point where I’m willing to pretty much give him up for nothing. With Keldon I’d gladly give it up for next to nothing and even attach a couple of SRPs in the process.

Meh Primo showed flashes more recently than Vassell. I'm at the point where I give up Vassell for anything that could be a positive on this roster. I can't believe they're not trying to move that bum for Collins when Utah wants him gone.

[baseline bum]

we get it, you hate Vassell. You don't have to remind us 3 times per day

You disagree the tank core needs to be purged just like every team that goes from awful to good does? Vassell is a loser paid like a good third option and the thing he is supposed to be best at he's just a cunt hair above league average.

[Biggems]

we just signed a backup C to a 40 million dollar deal, we're good man

Doesn't mean we can't add more depth. Okc has 3 7fters. Denver has some size as does PHX. Houston has big depth. Dallas has big depth.

[Dverde]

Doesn't mean we can't add more depth. Okc has 3 7fters. Denver has some size as does PHX. Houston has big depth. Dallas has big depth.

I assumed Bassey would be the added depth at Center. He’s solid for that purpose.

[cutewizard]

Bassey or Biyombo?

[exstatic]

I assumed Bassey would be the added depth at Center. He’s solid for that purpose.

er can’t stay healthy. He’s got the knees of a 70s era NFL running back. If we’re talking 3rd stringer, sign me up for Biyambo.

[Chinook]

i think i agree with Chinook that the spurs arent looking for ways to move off vassell or time is value. they want to see him through. sure, the durant opportunity would have you consider moves you otherwise wouldnt, but i dont see them urgently looking to offload their only capable movement shooters right now

This is the first season in a while that Vassell isn't expected to be one of the top play-makers on the team. He takes so many poor "superstar" shots. Fox is by far the best PG he's played with. There is reason to hope that his efficiency increases with better quality shots and lesser defensive attention. He doesn't have to succeed as a star to be a good player, and hopefully the Spurs recognize that and take that at ude going forward rather than letting him run loose.

[RC_Drunkford]

You disagree the tank core needs to be purged just like every team that goes from awful to good does? Vassell is a loser paid like a good third option and the thing he is supposed to be best at he's just a cunt hair above league average.

no but I‘m not attaching assets to move them. And if you break up the friendship crew you start with Keldon and Branham. I‘m sure you will remind us again in a few hours how Vassell has to get traded right now.

[MannyIsGod]

This is the first season in a while that Vassell isn't expected to be one of the top play-makers on the team. He takes so many poor "superstar" shots. Fox is by far the best PG he's played with. There is reason to hope that his efficiency increases with better quality shots and lesser defensive attention. He doesn't have to succeed as a star to be a good player, and hopefully the Spurs recognize that and take that at ude going forward rather than letting him run loose.

I do agree with this. Especially if Mitch is going to be a freed coach with Pop out. If he's just going to be Pop v 2.0 then I don't think I have much hope for that.

[scottspurs]

I’m starting to think the final two roster spots will go to Riley Minix and Charles Bassey. I wouldn’t be surprised if they both signed already and we don’t hear about it until July 6th.

[spurraider21]

This is the first season in a while that Vassell isn't expected to be one of the top play-makers on the team. He takes so many poor "superstar" shots. Fox is by far the best PG he's played with. There is reason to hope that his efficiency increases with better quality shots and lesser defensive attention. He doesn't have to succeed as a star to be a good player, and hopefully the Spurs recognize that and take that at ude going forward rather than letting him run loose.

tbh i mostly hope vassell recognizes that

[Leetonidas]

I do agree with this. Especially if Mitch is going to be a freed coach with Pop out. If he's just going to be Pop v 2.0 then I don't think I have much hope for that.

This is what I'm really curious to see, whether Mitch's coaching last season was truly his own and we'll see more of the same or if he'll be able to do his own thing next season. Would really prefer the Popovich pecking order bull to be done with and just play the guys and rotations that make the most sense. Hopefully he does which should mean not defaulting to giving the friendship crew guaranteed minutes

[baseline bum]

no but I‘m not attaching assets to move them. And if you break up the friendship crew you start with Keldon and Branham. I‘m sure you will remind us again in a few hours how Vassell has to get traded right now.

Keldon and Branham suck but their contracts aren't bad so it's not a priority to find some sucker to take them like it is Vassell.

[baseline bum]

This is the first season in a while that Vassell isn't expected to be one of the top play-makers on the team. He takes so many poor "superstar" shots. Fox is by far the best PG he's played with. There is reason to hope that his efficiency increases with better quality shots and lesser defensive attention. He doesn't have to succeed as a star to be a good player, and hopefully the Spurs recognize that and take that at ude going forward rather than letting him run loose.

He does have to play defense to be a good player and I'm not very confident about that happening.

[DPG21920]

Dev as a 3 for Spurs > Keldon as a 3 for spurs. Both on shooting and defense

[LeBowen]

He does have to play defense to be a good player and I'm not very confident about that happening.

Even if Vassell magically develops into an efficent player and becomes solid on defense, we'd still be giving up size and it wouldn't be worth it.

Two man lineups, at least 300 minutes played together, sorted by NETRG.

Vassell:


Champagnie:


Not a single positive NETRTG for Vassell, with best ratings obviously being with two best defenders.
On the other hand, Champ who's obviously an individually worse player has way better ratings because he's an above average shooter and has enough size to not be exploited on defense.

[Robz4000]

Knicks

[LeBowen]

Knicks

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rFlZs8iOQ8I

Turn the ing jets on.

NBA coaching circle is a sect, tbh. People just keep falling upwards.

[baseline bum]

Knicks

Are we really one to laugh with our coaching situation?

[scott]

I’m starting to think the final two roster spots will go to Riley Minix and Charles Bassey. I wouldn’t be surprised if they both signed already and we don’t hear about it until July 6th.

Minix would disappoint me, tbh. He hasn't done anything to warrant a full roster spot. Maybe he will eventually, but a two-way to start the year seems far more appropriate. I hope we use that last spot on someone a little more capable of stepping in if called upon. A vet min guard wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Also hope we bring in some guys to compete with Bran and Wesley's last roster spot. Waiving one them in camp if they get beat out won't impact anything... though I was also surprised Flynn wasn't kept over one of them last camp.

[scott]

Not a single positive NETRTG for Vassell, with best ratings obviously being with two best defenders.
On the other hand, Champ who's obviously an individually worse player has way better ratings because he's an above average shooter and has enough size to not be exploited on defense.

I remember at one point last year I pulled some data and it showed that Vassell's on-offs made every single rotation player on the Spurs worse off

Obviously that needs to change. We'll see.