It is usually the main offense we run in the 4th quarter of playoff games. You know, those quarters that we are infamous for blowing leads in in the playoffs.
And it's a bad idea to give the ball to the best post player in the league, when the other team knows that play frontwards and backwards, when they know it is coming, and when he is being triple teamed and has a propensity for putting on the floor and turning it over.
Guards handle the ball...it's their job. We have great guards...let them handle it.
And I am not saying we should eliminate it from the play book...it becomes a better option when it isn't the predictable option and when other guys are threats...
We don't have journeymen playing the guard spots anymore...we have some of the most talented guards in the NBA.
And the ones we win championships in. Go figure.You know, those quarters that we are infamous for blowing leads in in the playoffs.
I will say that one of the major problems with four down is Tim's holding the ball and waiting to see what the defense might do when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe if he goes into his moves almost immediately the effect would be quite profound.
I use the term 4 down generously...the point I am making is actcually much more controversial and earth shattering...I am saying we are too much of an inside out team...
You notice that 3 game losing streak occurred when were still mainly running inside out plays through Massenburg and Horry...
A bigman didn't initiate the offense one single time in our 4th quarter asswhipping of Houston.
IF you guys think that's what we have to do to win then it was stupid to sign Parker, and Manu....we should have waited and signed Ray Allen...in fact right now we should trade them for Ray Allen. He fits that offense better...and if that is going to be our backbone offense we wasted money on our current group of guards.Sometimes they call it, sometimes it ends up there on broken plays. But a lot of the plays are for something other than 4 -down. It was that way last season too. There's a lot more picnroll, motion plays, and a variety of other things.
But Chump is right, 4-down is a necessary play call to win a le.
I wonder how much Manu and Tony really love that conservative halfcourt offense....I don't even think Duncan likes it that much or he wouldn't have wanted Jason Kidd.
I sense our team is set in it's ways and doesn't fully realize or understand how to utlilize all the talent that is on it.
What's sickening is that you think we have won les because of that offense...We won because of our D and we overcame that offense...
And I'll agree with you on that point.I will say that one of the major problems with four down is Tim's holding the ball and waiting to see what the defense might do when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe if he goes into his moves almost immediately the effect would be quite profound.
Whottt, it has to be a mixture. I'm not saying to just run 4-down.
LMAO. Yeah, Duncan sucks. He never scored once on the low post and no one ever got an open look from the arc on a kickout.What's sickening is that you think we have won les because of that offense.
Waive Duncan. Just get a guy who can trail on the break and stay out of our guards' way.
Too bad Parker can't finish a game and Manu can't finish practices at this point in the season. Otherwise I might agree with waiving Duncan.
And the beauty of it is Kori..we can do both...and it's debatable which one we can do better...even with Tim Duncan. That's an embarassment of riches...it shouldn't be a problem, but it seems that it is. The mindset seems to be that in crunch time it's Duncan or nothing...
That plays to the strengths of the Rockets and Pistons...and the Heat...not their weaknesses.
We got Manu freaking Ginobili...and putting the ball in his hands is just as good as putting it in Duncan...because it's a of a lot harder to doubleteam a guard than it is a bigman...I know Manu can turn it over at times...but so can Duncan.
Why do you say that? This season the Spurs seem to go to Manu as much (if not more than) Duncan in fourth quarters.The mindset seems to be that in crunch time it's Duncan or nothing...
that's been said.we can do both.
The sad thing is that Manu, Parker, Barry, even Devin and Beno...all have games that are much more compatible with each other than with an inside out offense...there is an assumption that Duncan can't still be Duncan unless we are running 4 down or a similar type offense...
I am not the one underestimating Duncan...I have yet to see a style that Duncan can't be effective and our best games the past 2 years have been games where Duncan didn't score a humoungous amount of points...
Sometimes...and sometims they don't, they haven't really been consistent with it...most of our losees have been games where we forgot about Manu and all of our guards.
Watch the 4th quarter and invariably our guards will get break opportunities and slow it down waiting to run the set offense(of which the majority of plays are still run for Duncan)...
Immaterial if the top two of those can't finish games or practices. And Devin and Beno play either quite well.The sad thing is that Manu, Parker, Barry, even Devin and Beno...all have games that are much more compatible with each other than with an inside out offense.
That's their fault. They're supposed to run if they have the opportunity (and Parker always does -- again, it's a shame he's nowhere to be found in the fourth). This is Pop, not JVG.Watch the 4th quarter and invariably our guards will get break opportunities and slow it down waiting to run the set offense
Bottom line is that Barry is effective when our guards are running the show and the tempo is up and he doesn't seem to be as effective standing around waiting for kickouts...he definitely plays better in the motion offense.
So I guess my point is that...if you want guys to stand around and bang threes when Duncan gets them open...for this season at least...we should go with Devin and Beno in that role...but if we are going to be trying an uptempo game then I think Barry is a much better option...in fact he might even serve us the best as being the main ballhandler at those times.
I say do both.
That's horse Chump...Parker has a permanent crick in neck from looking over his shoulder at what Pop wants him to do...
Even Barry looks over his shoulder some(and I don't mean when we are trying to burn the shotclock)...don't even try and tell me that's what Barry's instincts are.
The only guy that doesn't seem to give a what Pop wants is Manu...and that's becaus ehe knows he can get away with it.
That's hore Whottt. How can he look back when he's leading the break all the time? Oh yeah, he's often so gassed at the end of games he can't really run it as much and defenses get back on him. Half of the Spurs' attack is predicated on his speed alone. When it's gone, what do you really have?Parker has a permanent crick in neck from looking over his shoulder at what Pop wants him to do...
Manu and Duncan.
He can look back at the times he's' not leading the break.
I don't know what you are arguing here...Pop tends to go with conservative offense more against the better team in the NBA...You look at our matchups with Detroit...Houston...Miami...even Indiana...and those were conservatively played games on offense...when Duncan got injured Pop tried getting more conservative...
Pop should be doing just the opposite(and I give him credit for FINALLY doing this against Houston)...you don't want to get conservative against Houston, Detroit, Indiana, Miami....those are the teams you want to push because they can't match our speed or our talent at the guard spots, and it wears down their bigs.....what they can do is defend our interior game better than any teams in the NBA and match or even surpass our effectiveness in a half court offense.
The worm has turned and wrong is now right...I know this(wanting to be more uptempo) goes against the tenets of playoff basketball...
but I think it's entirely possible that the NBA has never seen a team that combines both the defensive prowess and transition and passing abilities of the Spurs...in one team. I don't think there's ever been a team has had the capabilities in both those facets of the game that the Spurs now do.
I want Pop to view and utilize our small ball abilities, our transitional abilities etc...as more than just experiments...and I don't think he does.
The key to the transition game is getting defensive rebounds and steals. That was completely happening against the Rockets. It's not like Pop is telling the Spurs to hold up on 2-1 or better breaks. , Parker often goes in 1-3 without looking back.
Sometimes Pop does hold Tony back...when we have a big lead he often does that...
Other than the obvious(rebounding), I'll agree that one of the keys to the transition is steals...something Pop discourages(and it makes sense for him to do so at some points)...
But it's also those "risky" passes that got Barry yanked from a game about a month ago...and that Manu is infamous for...
And I am not just talking about transition either...I am talking about guard oriented offense...just so we are clear on this...I mean not initiating the offense by tossing it into Mass or Horry...like we did a lot in the Detroit Game(when Detroit ate our lunch)...like we did for most of this past Houston game(and for most of the previous ones)...
I know we don't really embrace it because if we did we wouldn't be trying to figure out if we can use Barry on this team or not..unglodly awful 350% 3pt shooting PCT or not. .
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