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Ya, I find it hard to believe that they are far apart with regards to tiers of player. JJ and Manu are much closer in talent than Kobe/Manu for example. It can be argued.
Amidst all this butt-hurtness, I think it's actually a good debate asking who is the better player. I think most of the tangibles like size, strength, athleticism go in favor of Joe Johnson. Most of the intangibles like will to win, intensity, desire, clutch play go in favor of Ginobili. Not that either is lopsided in favor of the other, but I would say that's where the scales would tip for each.
I think there's a strong argument that Joe Johnson has been the #1 option on his Hakws teams while Manu has been the second or third option for the Spurs, so it's hard to compare statistics, even PER. By the way, it's funny to see some Spurs fans use PER to argue Ginobili being better when it goes in favor of the Spurs and then completely bash a statistic like PER when it doesn't. Based on PER, Chris Paul is by far a better player than Tony Parker and has been better since he's entered the league. How many Spurs fans would discredit the PER stat then?
Moreover, claiming that no team would win a le with Joe Johnson as the #1 option is pretty irrelevant since no team with Ginobili as the #1 option would either.
Now, I love Manu. He's one of my favorite players in the league, might be my #1 favorite player now because he was second only to Iverson the last few years. But, even if you do believe Manu is the better player, it's close. It's not some crazy lopsided disparity where Manu is miles ahead of Joe Johnson. It's close.
Plus, if you take into consideration right now, currently, at their respective ages, with Ginobili's diminished abilities due to injury after injury, there's plenty of arguments in favor of Joe Johnson.
Me, I'm still partial to Ginobili. I think when he's healthy and right, he's just a notch below the likes of Kobe and Wade at the 2-guard spot in the league. That's when he's healthy and right. So, I'd probably go with Ginobili in a pretty close call.
Ya, I find it hard to believe that they are far apart with regards to tiers of player. JJ and Manu are much closer in talent than Kobe/Manu for example. It can be argued.
Nothing against Manu, but if we were to pick one of these two players today, i would pick Joe Johnson over Manu. Joe Johnson is younger and more athletic than Manu. Plus JJ is probably even or a little better at d than Manu.
I would take Ginobilli at 70% over Joe Johnson at 100%
Here are the stats when Joe's team faces the Spurs.
They played 27 games against each other, 9 of those games in the playoffs.
Ginobili: 14,9 pts, 4,5 reb, 3 ast, 1,7 stl, 0,3 blk in 28,3 min.
Johnson: 14,1 pts, 3,8 reb, 2,9 ast, 1 stl, 0,3 blk in 36,1 min.
Playoffs:
Ginobili: 12,3 pts, 4,9 reb, 4,2 ast, 1,8 stl, 0,4 blk in 32,1 min.
Johnson: 9,7 pts, 4,1 reb, 2 ast, 0,9 stl, 0,3 blk in 31,6 min.
Manu >> Joe
lol and what option was Joe Johnson in that series?
Well in 03 when Manu was a rookie, Joe was the first option of the bench. He played at least 25-30 minutes a game in that 6 game series. He had a bigger role than Manu on the Spurs. Joe also took like 4 more shots than Manu.
In 05 Joe was a starter in the playoffs. But he only played the last 3 games of the Spurs - Suns series. He played 40 minutes a game. He was the 3rd option on offense, just like Manu.
Lol this poll sux...
In 2003 Manu was 25 years old and JJ was 21 years old. Don't pull the inexperience card there.
And in 2005 JJ played the entire series with one eye and a mask he wasn't used to using.
So what if he was 25 years old. Joe was already one year in the league. The inexperienced player outplayed the experienced one.
Joe played good 3 games against the Spurs in 05. Richard Hamilton aso had a mask that he wasn't used to, and he still won the championship. So who gives a about the mask.
Manu is just better.
Except Rip had been used to the mask, he's worn one his entire career. Rip actually broke his nose 3 different times because he refused to wear the mask at first.
O yeah, the 21 year old was so much more experienced than the 25 YO
Manu is better. He's got better stat's against Joe and he also's got more awards than him.
You don't have to agree with me, but 45 other guys who voted will agree.
You mean to say, Spur fans would vote for their player in a poll?
I would obviously choose Johnson over ginobili simply because he's younger. I'd say their levels are pretty similar right now but if I needed to choose one for just next season, I would rather have ginobili because he's slightly better now. Since the spurs arent just playing for one championship, Johnson would greatly extend the spurs championship window so it's a no brainer.
yes.You mean to say, Spur fans would vote for their player in a poll?
This guys are really morons to put Manu in a poll on a Spurs forum, cause we all know he will win.
So why the do you guys put a Spurs player in a poll on this forum.
oh and btw...Duncan >> Dirk
To see how big of a bunch of homers spur fans are.
lol 4-1
lol barea owning the spurs
lol bass owning the spurs
lol 4-0
That enough.
huh? Are you trying to communicate?
Sorry. It's 2.15 am here. I'm tired.
Make a Kobe vs Manu poll and look who wins. People voted for Manu 'cause they know he's the better player.You mean to say, Spur fans would vote for their player in a poll?
It occurs to me that with the 'eye for talent' that both RC and Pop have that the signing of Marcus and Ian Mahinmi is no desperation move. Marcus Haislip is more of a lighter, more athletic Hedo with his ability of shooting from any where on the floor, and the Ian Mahinmi addition, he just might be the NBA's best kept secret in that he is very fast for a big man, and very athletic like D Rob (David Robinson). One can only hope that Ian is taking summer league tutorials from the Admiral the way that Bynum is apparently under the tutelage of Kareem. Could we be witnessing the development of D Rob 2.0 in Mahinmi?
One can only hope.
We have SUCH a deadly line up as a starting 5 and impressive but also unproven bench in some players. I'm just stoked as I can maintain to see Timmy, Tony, Manu, RJ, and McDyess come on to the floor after a time out (hopefully called by the other team) for the final 3-4 minutes of important games building chemistry, and learning together how to close out games in preparation for closing out the last few games of the WCF and the '10 NBA Finals. Who is REALLY going to stop that line up? Lebron can only guard one guy, and Shag
(misspelled on purpose) can only guard so much of the paint, Kobe will be forced to guard either Manu or RJ and won't be able to provide much of any help defense, Pau's Defense is as (in)effective as Dirk's, and Byn(othing) is a no-show when it matters, and Ron Artest? Well when he has his temper tantrums, --and he will-- will fade away like he did with the Rockets when it mattered. I'm not saying that the Spurs will sweep the Fakers and the Cavs if and when we meet them in the playoffs, but not only will SA be at full strength this season, but every team will need to respect everyone on the floor when the Spurs show up for the last 3-4 minutes in every 4th quarter they play against us.
Like dirk's basketball psyche.
I don't know if Kobe would win. Manu will defeat Dirk in the Spurs forum poll.
Dirk isn't Kobe and that poll isn't a straight who's better question.I don't know if Kobe would win. Manu will defeat Dirk in the Spurs forum poll.
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