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  1. #176
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Do their elected officials get to partake in their great socialized h.c.?
    To be honest, I have no idea. Do you have any proof that all of them do not?

  2. #177
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    To be fair, sustainability and quality are different qualities, no? Considering their modest GDP taken along with their very lax work schedule, the question of sustainability is certainly valid in my eyes... even if it has zero to do with this thread
    They sure don't have our military budget to deal with...

  3. #178
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Why should only the rich be able to afford economic research?

    Why do you hate the poor?
    They hated me for being rich first.

  4. #179
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    Rated top in the world by the World Health Organization...

    But I'm sure you know better...
    Yeps, it's not sustainable. It's funny, right now the French government is working in a way of making their health-care system more similar to the American.

    Again, can you provide a link for that 1988 health-care reform by Miterrand or not? I find it very odd, Miterrand governed from teh right since 1983 or so.

  5. #180
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    To be honest, I have no idea. Do you have any proof that all of them do not?
    It was a shot at Obama and the Dem's keeping their plan all while trying to sell that all the Americans will have this new better, socialized one.

  6. #181
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    They sure don't have our military budget to deal with...
    They also threw a parade for the Nazi invaders.

  7. #182
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    They also threw a parade for the Nazi invaders.

  8. #183
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    We can solve this very quickly: point an example of a socialist regime, please.

    solve what very quickly? the point that corruption is not what defines a system? the question to you as to what the inherent consequences of the philosophies of capitalism and socialism are? my point about neoliberalism?

    how would pointing out a regime solve this?

    i want to know what the "philosophical consequences of socialism are" because that is the point you posited. what would make these "consequences" unique to socialism?

  9. #184
    Scrumtrulescent
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    They also threw a parade for the Nazi invaders.
    Okay, I laughed.


  10. #185
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    They also threw a parade for the Nazi invaders.
    This is indeed part of the problem. Some of you still think this is the 40's.

  11. #186
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Ins ute for Historical Review

    Paris in the Third Reich: A history of the German occupation, 1940-1944

    PARIS IN THE THIRD REICH: A HISTORY OF THE GERMAN OCCUPATION, 1940-1944 by David Pryce-Jones. New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1981, x + 294 pages, 116 photographs, $25.00, ISBN 0-03-045621-5.
    reviewed by Charles Lutton
    The claim that thousands of Parisians were members of the anti-Nazi "Resistance is an aspect of the Second World War that has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years. As British historian David Pryce-Jones explains in his study of Paris in the Third Reich, there was little actual resistance activity in the French capital. Indeed, during the German occupation life in Paris went on much as it had before the war.

    A striking point is the contrast between the behavior of the victorious German occupiers of France in 1940 and that of the Allied troops who overran Germany in 1945. Unlike what happened in Germany and Central Europe in 1945, when the Germans took Paris there were no scenes of mass pillage, rape, and murder. The French mass circulation weekly L'Illustration described the German soldiers as "handsome boys, decent, helpful, above all correct." Hitler even cancelled a huge victory parade that had been planned by the military, so as not to alienate the Parisians. Within a few days after the onset of the German occupation, the schools, restaurants, theaters, trains, newspapers, and other public services were back in operation on a near-normal basis. The Paris police, who outnumbered the Germans, remained on duty throughout the occupation.

    Nor did the Germans round up large numbers of political opponents and suspects. Jean-Paul Sartre, Coco Chanel, Dior, Yves Montand, Maurice Chevalier, Picasso, and Albert Camus were among those who lived and worked -- very productively -- in Paris during the German occupation. One French writer, Louis-Ferdinand Celine, expressed surprise that the Germans were "not shooting, hanging, exterminating the Jews ... stupified that anyone with a bayonet would not be using it all the time. 'If the Bolsheviks were in Paris, they'd show you how to set about it, they'd show you how to purge a population, district by district, house by house. If I had a bayonet, I'd know my business.'"

    As noted above, Pryce-Jones sheds additional light on the so-called "Resistance." Many Frenchmen intensely disliked the Partisans, who did not go into action against the Germans until after Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Communist Partisans, large numbers of whom were not native-born Frenchmen, hoped to provoke German reprisals which would then alienate the French populace. In this they succeeded. But Germans were not their only targets: throughout the occupation, other Communists, assorted leftists, and rightists were murdered by the Partisans.

    Once the Germans were forced to withdraw from France in the summer of 1944, a new "Reign of Terror" commenced. PryceJones estimates that there were 105,000 summary executions in France between June 1944 and February 1945. "The number of Frenchmen killed by other Frenchmen, whether through summary execution or rigged tribunals akin to lynch mobs or court martials and High Court trials, equalled or even exceeded the number of those sent to their death by the Germans as hostages, deportees, and slave-laborers." (The fullest treatment in English of the bloodbath that accompanied "liberation" is found in Sisley Huddleston's 1955 book France: The Tragic Years, 1939-1947.)

    Often, Frenchmen could not understand the logic involved in these reprisals. One women remarked at the time, after her daughter's head was shaved: "My little Josiane, it's too horrible. Her hair has been cut off, monsieur. Poor little Josiane! If she went to bed with Germans, it was because she's seventeen, monsieur, you follow me? But why ever cut off her hair for it? It's a crying shame, monsieur. She's just as willing to go to bed with Americans!"

    Paris in the Third Reich includes excerpts from some of the interviews the author conducted with former collaborators, German veterans, and other observers. Over a hundred photographs, some in color, supplement the text. Those interested in this chapter of contemporary history will find the book useful.
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p376_Lutton.html



  12. #187
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    This is indeed part of the problem. Some of you still think this is the 40's.
    It is ridiculous for us to try and prop up anything France does. It would never work it America (not saying it worked in France).

  13. #188
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    Ins ute for Historical Review

    Paris in the Third Reich: A history of the German occupation, 1940-1944

    PARIS IN THE THIRD REICH: A HISTORY OF THE GERMAN OCCUPATION, 1940-1944 by David Pryce-Jones. New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1981, x + 294 pages, 116 photographs, $25.00, ISBN 0-03-045621-5.
    reviewed by Charles Lutton
    The claim that thousands of Parisians were members of the anti-Nazi "Resistance is an aspect of the Second World War that has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years. As British historian David Pryce-Jones explains in his study of Paris in the Third Reich, there was little actual resistance activity in the French capital. Indeed, during the German occupation life in Paris went on much as it had before the war.

    A striking point is the contrast between the behavior of the victorious German occupiers of France in 1940 and that of the Allied troops who overran Germany in 1945. Unlike what happened in Germany and Central Europe in 1945, when the Germans took Paris there were no scenes of mass pillage, rape, and murder. The French mass circulation weekly L'Illustration described the German soldiers as "handsome boys, decent, helpful, above all correct." Hitler even cancelled a huge victory parade that had been planned by the military, so as not to alienate the Parisians. Within a few days after the onset of the German occupation, the schools, restaurants, theaters, trains, newspapers, and other public services were back in operation on a near-normal basis. The Paris police, who outnumbered the Germans, remained on duty throughout the occupation.

    Nor did the Germans round up large numbers of political opponents and suspects. Jean-Paul Sartre, Coco Chanel, Dior, Yves Montand, Maurice Chevalier, Picasso, and Albert Camus were among those who lived and worked -- very productively -- in Paris during the German occupation. One French writer, Louis-Ferdinand Celine, expressed surprise that the Germans were "not shooting, hanging, exterminating the Jews ... stupified that anyone with a bayonet would not be using it all the time. 'If the Bolsheviks were in Paris, they'd show you how to set about it, they'd show you how to purge a population, district by district, house by house. If I had a bayonet, I'd know my business.'"

    As noted above, Pryce-Jones sheds additional light on the so-called "Resistance." Many Frenchmen intensely disliked the Partisans, who did not go into action against the Germans until after Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Communist Partisans, large numbers of whom were not native-born Frenchmen, hoped to provoke German reprisals which would then alienate the French populace. In this they succeeded. But Germans were not their only targets: throughout the occupation, other Communists, assorted leftists, and rightists were murdered by the Partisans.

    Once the Germans were forced to withdraw from France in the summer of 1944, a new "Reign of Terror" commenced. PryceJones estimates that there were 105,000 summary executions in France between June 1944 and February 1945. "The number of Frenchmen killed by other Frenchmen, whether through summary execution or rigged tribunals akin to lynch mobs or court martials and High Court trials, equalled or even exceeded the number of those sent to their death by the Germans as hostages, deportees, and slave-laborers." (The fullest treatment in English of the bloodbath that accompanied "liberation" is found in Sisley Huddleston's 1955 book France: The Tragic Years, 1939-1947.)

    Often, Frenchmen could not understand the logic involved in these reprisals. One women remarked at the time, after her daughter's head was shaved: "My little Josiane, it's too horrible. Her hair has been cut off, monsieur. Poor little Josiane! If she went to bed with Germans, it was because she's seventeen, monsieur, you follow me? But why ever cut off her hair for it? It's a crying shame, monsieur. She's just as willing to go to bed with Americans!"

    Paris in the Third Reich includes excerpts from some of the interviews the author conducted with former collaborators, German veterans, and other observers. Over a hundred photographs, some in color, supplement the text. Those interested in this chapter of contemporary history will find the book useful.
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p376_Lutton.html


    The IHR? Seriously? You know they're basically a front for anti-semitic nazi-sympathizer bull , don't you?

  14. #189
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    ...

  15. #190
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It is ridiculous for us to try and prop up anything France does. It would never work it America (not saying it worked in France).
    Fries worked...

  16. #191
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The IHR? Seriously? You know they're basically a front for anti-semitic nazi-sympathizer bull , don't you?
    Ofcourse not. Google isn't that good.

  17. #192
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    God, does this thread suck.

  18. #193
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Fries worked...
    Delicious.

  19. #194
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  20. #195
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    ElNono, can you expand a bit your remarks about Miterrand and that 1988 health-care reform?

  21. #196
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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  22. #197
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Just whip out your links, mogrovejo.

    You went and boned up. Great. Share what you learned.

  23. #198
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    The IHR... they're basically a front for anti-semitic nazi-sympathizer bull
    I agree.

    But the book's author is David Pryce-Jones and it'd be a little difficult to accuse him of being an anti-semitic, nazi-sympathizer, don't you think?

  24. #199
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Please don't keep us in suspense on account of your weak bs again. That got annoying a long time ago.

  25. #200
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Quit stammering and just make your point.

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