1957 vs. 2010

[LnGrrrR]

Yes, but self esteem also comes from other factors. You can be poor and instill values in your children if you don't blame others for your position in life. Lead by example. Just because someone is financially poor doesn't mean their lives aren't rich.

Of course a poor and middle-class person can install values. But RICH CHILDREN DO BETTER EDUCATIONALLY?

Given that, are you arguing that rich parents do a better job of instilling values or not? Otherwise your above point makes no sense.

What does it say when rich parents expect their children to achieve certain benchmarks and hold them to it? Do as many poor or middle class families expect their children to go to an expensive school? No, partially because they cannot afford to send them. Their expectations aren't as high. The entire experience of growing up plays a factor. Money does influence some of these factors, but the real factors are the way we raise our children. Parents who realize this can have great performing children and be poor.

So, to sum up, you're saying that children of rich parents do better because they have more expectations placed on them. Is this correct?

[Wild Cobra]

You're completely dancing around that fact that even if/when poorer parents do have high expectations of their children and do instill high expectations within their children, expensive schools are still sometimes out of the question. That's too important a piece of this argument to just push aside.

How does that affect grades?

[LnGrrrR]

Hmmm. Are you saying this is something else government should provide? Above and beyond affirmative action?

Do you enjoy putting words in my mouth CC? I've already posted a reply, but there are means out there already. There will always be wealthy people; there will always be poor people. Being wealthy provides inherent advantages.

I'm not going to argue about creation of wealth; I'm no economist. (Then again, half the economists disagree with the other half, so maybe I should.) I'd say that affirmative action, which having very visible drawbacks, worked in its primary function to promote wealth creation for minorities. I'm not going to argue about the efficacy of these actions, or whether better actions could have been taken. It just seems to me that affirmative action has succeeded in its primary goal.

If I knew a way to create wealth among minorities without ruffling feathers, I'd be making alot more money than I am today.

[CuckingFunt]

How does that affect grades?

Good question.

Are you suggesting that schools with lower grades on average have a student body who are each, individually, underperforming?

[LnGrrrR]

How does that affect grades?

Interesting. So, schools have little to no effect on the education a child receives? I would think that a better school would provide better education, ie. higher grades.

[Wild Cobra]

Good question.

Are you suggesting that schools with lower grades on average have a student body who are each, individually, underperforming?

Interesting. So, schools have little to no effect on the education a child receives? I would think that a better school would provide better education, ie. higher grades.

Unless I missed something, this argument started with children grades vs. wealth.

I was saying the money wasn't the fix to grades. That it is how the children are raised.

[LnGrrrR]

I was saying the money wasn't the fix to grades. That it is how the children are raised.

Given that wealth seems to be a strong factor in education (ie. more wealth = better grades, on average), do you think that rich children are raised better than poor and middle class children, on average?

[Wild Cobra]

Given that wealth seems to be a strong factor in education (ie. more wealth = better grades, on average), do you think that rich children are raised better than poor and middle class children, on average?

Not entirely, because it is a community thing too. Rather than the money going to well off neighborhoods, we have less disruptive children. More actually get accomplishment in classes that have less children who are troubled. I'll bet if you looked at an example of education between an intercity school and a rich community's school, the biggest difference will be the character of the children, who were influenced by their family and neighbors. I say it still boils down to social at udes rather than money, but I agree that money does have an effect of social at ude. If schools today could discipline the disruptive students in class, maybe those who do have the desire to learn could.

[LnGrrrR]

Given that wealth seems to be a strong factor in education (ie. more wealth = better grades, on average), do you think that rich children are raised better than poor and middle class children, on average?

I'll bet if you looked at an example of education between an intercity school and a rich community's school, the biggest difference will be the character of the children, who were influenced by their family and neighbors. I say it still boils down to social at udes rather than money, but I agree that money does have an effect of social at ude.

So then your answer to my question is "yes".

[DarrinS]

Why do you suppose that Asian and Indian children excel in school?

Super wealth?

[CosmicCowboy]

Why do you suppose that Asian and Indian children excel in school?

Super wealth?

Oh that just shows the success of affirmative action...

[LnGrrrR]

Why do you suppose that Asian and Indian children excel in school?

Super wealth?

I have no clue. Also, that's a strawman. Are you disputing the studies that show higher wealth = more educated children or not?

[CosmicCowboy]

I have no clue. Also, that's a strawman. Are you disputing the studies that show higher wealth = more educated children or not?

I'm about to step out of this discussion but I really don't understand your point. We all agree there are multiple factors. You keep harping on wealth. Using that one dimensional logic you could also say that most wealthy people are white, wealthy kids are smarter, ergo white people are smarter. You are just playing argument games with one factor.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm about to step out of this discussion but I really don't understand your point. We all agree there are multiple factors. You keep harping on wealth. Using that one dimensional logic you could also say that most wealthy people are white, wealthy kids are smarter, ergo white people are smarter. You are just playing argument games with one factor.

That's ALMOST what I'm saying. Just replace "are smarter" with "have more access to educational opportunities" and you'll get my point.

As far as "argument games", you guys are the ones trying to twist around what I said. You stated that you didn't think money in Daddy's bank account played a factor, then you admitted it while simultaneously downplaying it. I'm saying it's a significant factor, and should be taken into account when trying to paint most poor people and/or minorities as a group that just wants to live on the government dole.

Does that account for some folks? Sure. There will always be some people trying to get the most out of the government they can; poor people trying to squeeze money on welfare, rich people trying to find loopholes to escape paying taxes.

But you can't go around saying "Minorities have as much opportunity as whites to get ahead" full period stop. They don't, and mainly (in my eyes) due to lack of wealth among minorities. Can they make it? Of course. But overall, they start at a very real disadvantage, however minor or major, when you take everything into account.

[LnGrrrR]

We all agree there are multiple factors.

Blacks and whites with equivalent education, skills, and ambition have equal opportunity in our society.

You left out wealth up there.

[The Reckoning]

look at the models young black kids look up to.

now look at the models indian, white and asian kids look up to.



bu..bu..but K'naan learned english from gansta rap

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why do you suppose that Asian and Indian children excel in school?

Super wealth?

parenting

[Wild Cobra]

parenting

Yes, parenting is the key, but there are peer forces too. I was in with the wrong group in my youth. Partied every night at a friend's who was an emancipated minor. Received strait A's in all my technical related classes and C's and D's in the others. I simply did no homework, completed my assignments during class, and aced my math, chemistry, physics, mechanics, drafting, etc. tests. English, history, etc. We even smoked weed on our lunch break. Sometimes I wish I tried. I probably would have graduated with a 4.00.

I know the harm of social pressures growing up, and matured later than I wish.

[Veterinarian]

look at the models young black kids look up to.

now look at the models indian, white and asian kids look up to.



bu..bu..but K'naan learned english from gansta rap

Shouldn't you be off somewhere fellating the Mookie Crew?

[spursncowboys]

If fellating is a real word, then I have a new word for my coming up deployment.

[LnGrrrR]

If fellating is a real word, then I have a new word for my coming up deployment.

It is. Where you going, Iraq or Afghanistan?

[Wild Cobra]

It is. Where you going, Iraq or Afghanistan?

Rumor has it the Navy has people running with that word more than other branches.

[spursncowboys]

It is. Where you going, Iraq or Afghanistan?

Afghanistan in Aug.

[Wild Cobra]

Afghanistan in Aug.

Good luck, stay safe.

What type of unit?

[spursncowboys]

thanks
1st Squadron-61st cavalry regiment/ 506th regimental combat team/ 101st airborne