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I wonder if the league wants more and more and fix game 5 too... hmmm
Oh, and the flea flicker and hidden ball tricks? Those are meant to fool the opponent. Like a pump fake. You don't have to be a genius to differentiate between those and flopping.
I wonder if the league wants more and more and fix game 5 too... hmmm
It would be easier to fix game 5 since it is in Phoenix.
Wow, you're all over the place. Death penalty? Where did that come from? It's not anything close to a relevant comparison.
You are judging without proof...last night looked like a deliberate flop to you...to some people it didn't. And none of us can prove it one way or the other. I agree it was a blatant flop...but I can't say for certain and neither can you.
BS, the player isn't forcing the officials to do anything...a player has no control over what the official does. What about when a player tries to draw a foul when he is on offense? Should they get fined and suspended for that as well? Your idea will create even more official intervention and it will create a total bureaucracy around the simple act of calling a foul...You would not make the game better...you would make it even more of what you hate about it.Flopping is a deliberate attempt to force the officials to intervene in the game. The officials are there to enforce the rules, but flopping makes the officials a bigger part of the game than they should be. The NBA has enough problems already with the officials calling actual fouls.
Stop being a control freak...you won't stop it unless you eliminate offensive fould entirely. And you will make it worse with extensive review every time it is a close call.It does not benefit the game for flopping to be prevalent, and the NBA should do whatever it can do discourage it. If a player makes a clear attempt to sway the game by acting (particularly an instance like Manu's where he was trying to draw a technical or flagrant foul at a crucial point of the game) he should be fined.
What do you think the opposing team is going to do when they get called for an offensive foul and lose the game?
You they are just going to let it slide, even if it was legit, if there is any chance the play could be reveresed or they could punish the player that did it to him?
And who should they appoint to judge if it was deliberate or not? You?Obviously a flop would only be fined if it was unquestionably deliberate. Stockton had a few, Manu had one last night. It wouldn't be any more of a gray area problem than decisions about fining coaches or owners for ing about officials.
What if they guys they appoint as judge are naturally lenient towards floppers? Should they do a CIA background check on them to determine their tendencies?
I love how so many Spurs fans are suddenly huge proponents of flopping now that Horry and Manu are on their team, but they were ready to lynch Karl Malone and John Stockton for beating them with such antics.
David Robinson was one of the greatest floppers in NBA history. And he was just about the best at doing it because got the call nearly every time. I din't hear you complaining when he flopped Shaq into a tech foul in game 5 in 03...I didn't see your outrage then...I didn't hear you complaining when we hoisted the trophy later on that season.
Our entire team are floppers right now...every guy on our team is a freaking flopper...Cept for Robinson and Barry(although he is becoming one)...and that's because they don't play D.
Duncan flops.
Parker flops...
Bowen flops...etc.
And I don't see Pop getting upset about it very often...I've seen Robinson and Barry flop more in the last month than I had seen them do it in their entire careers....who do you think is encouraging it?
Every coach you hear doing PBP will praise a good flopper for giving up his body and taking it...
You'd have to be a raging homer to suggest that flopping makes the game better. You try that on the street and you'd be laughed off the court. I defy anyone to suggest they wouldn't rather watch the NBA where players played with the honor and sportsmanship of taking only fouls that are actual fouls.
The NBA isn't street ball.
Flopping is the NBA equivalent of a golfer secretly moving his ball off the rough, or a pitcher using a slightly oval-shaped baseball. In other words, it's cheating.
And it's ing lame.
LMAO. You just don't like flopping. Evidently you like red tape though...because every argument I see from you, you seem to be an advocate of it, expansion of authority powers and regulation, more expense...etc.
Seems kind of an odd POV for a Libertarian to have if you ask me.
Last edited by whottt; 05-31-2005 at 07:28 PM.
What about catcher's interference?
What about a catcher framing the ball over the plate to get a stike when it was actually a ball? Who is that trying to trick?
What about every coach in every sport yelling and screaming at officials to get them to give calls in favor of their team?
Cheating is part of the game...or at least testing the rules to the maximum extent is part of the game...
And that's another thing...every one acts like modern athletes are cheaters for steroid usage...
You don't think those mofo's back in the 40's and 50's would have done steroids or anything to give them an edge? You are wrong, they would have, and they pushed the limits of honest sportsmanship too...
Lighten up Spurm...it's always been this way.
And just about every guy in the NBA flops...the same way a catcher frames the ball they try to frame an offensive foul...
The funniest one was when Shaq was complaining about the Spurs flopping in 03 and then flopped on Tony Parker lol...he got the call too...
The proof is in the tape. It's arguable to some, but no more arguable than a coach blaming the officials for a loss and getting fined, or a level 2 Flagrant.
Trying to draw a foul is different from faking one, because the foul actually happens. My method would not affect the game itself, because all fines are levelled outside the game, and I don't give a what happens outside the game anymore than I care about Mark Cuban's next reality series. If it leads to less flopping during the games, then it's worth it.BS, the player isn't forcing the officials to do anything...a player has no control over what the official does. What about when a player tries to draw a foul when he is on offense? Should they get fined and suspended for that as well? Your idea will create even more official intervention and it will create a total bureaucracy around the simple act of calling a foul...You would not make the game better...you would make it even more of what you hate about it.
Who said anything about stopping it? I'm talking about improvements here, not prevention.Stop being a control freak...you won't stop it unless you eliminate offensive fould entirely. And you will make it worse with extensive review every time it is a close call.
Who cares? The NBA can review the play for 48 hours straight for all I care.What do you think the opposing team is going to do when they get called for an offensive foul and lose the game?
Same guy they appoint judge of leveling fines for other reasons.And who should they appoint to judge if it was deliberate or not? You?
What if they guys they appoint as judge are naturally lenient towards floppers? Should they do a CIA background check on them to determine their tendencies?
You're creating a difficult scenario to support your side of the argument, but it's really very simple. They review the play, determine that the player was undoubtedly attempting to coerce a call, and fine him. No different from how they determine whether a player was attempting a play on the ball when called for a flagrant foul. Probably easier.
Robinson was good at getting in position to draw offensive fouls. Falling down when someone runs or turns into you is not a flop. When Robinson did flop, I didn't like it, but I didn't see him ever trying to bait an official into calling a technical or flagrant on his opponent.David Robinson was one of the greatest floppers in NBA history. And he was just about the best at doing it because got the call nearly every time. I din't hear you complaining when he flopped Shaq into a tech foul in game 5 in 03...I didn't see your outrage then...I didn't hear you complaining when we hoisted the trophy later on that season.
So?Our entire team are floppers right now...every guy on our team is a freaking flopper...Cept for Robinson and Barry(although he is becoming one)...and that's because they don't play D.
Duncan flops.
Parker flops...
Bowen flops...etc.
And I don't see Pop getting upset about it very often...I've seen Robinson and Barry flop more in the last month than I had seen them do it in their entire careers....who do you think is encouraging it?
I've called out Spurs for playing for fouls and flailing their arms on drives to the baskets instead of going strong. My complaints against Duncan for flopping when he's stripped are well do ented. I think it causes him to hold the ball more gently than he should.
You're not going to catch me on inconsistency, so don't bother.
The NBA should be as close to basketball in its purest sense as possible. In a perfect world, the officials would not have to make judgment calls. That's never possible, but the league can at least do whatever it can to make sure the players aren't relying on the officials to help them.The NBA isn't street ball.
???LMAO. You just don't like flopping. Evidently you like red tape though...because every argument I see from you, you seem to be an advocate of it, expansion of authority powers and regulation, more expense...etc.
Seems kind of an odd POV for a Libertarian to have if you ask me.
You keep bringing political ideology into the equation, but we're talking about a ing game here. It's a product. And I want it to be the best product it can be.
Besides, Capital Punishment IS an expansion of powers and regulation. Duh.
Catcher's interference and framing pitches are not anything that detracts from the integrity of the game. I don't hear baseball teams being slammed by other teams or fans as "pitch framers". It's simply not the problem that flopping is. It's rarely something that umpires fall for anyway. If it was, and it was becoming as big a part of the game as flopping is to basketball, then yes, I would say that MLB should do something about it.What about catcher's interference?
What about a catcher framing the ball over the plate to get a stike when it was actually a ball? Who is that trying to trick?
What about every coach in every sport yelling and screaming at officials to get them to give calls in favor of their team?
Cheating is part of the game...or at least testing the rules to the maximum extent is part of the game...
Last edited by Spurminator; 05-31-2005 at 07:53 PM.
Q.E.D. What did you need the previous verbage for?
Well, looks like the games are not fixed. Refs are really calling a tight game on shaq, so looks like there is no conspircy. Sorry.
To some degree, I agree with both of you (whottt and Spurm). Out-of-control flopping would ruin the game (those of you who watch soccer, don't you hate when a player gets fouled and spends five minutes crying on the field, is then taken off the field to receive more medical attention, only to come back 30 seconds later as if nothing ever happened).
On the other hand, penalizing every flop could be counterproductive. I would favor penalizing the obvious flops, but I agree with whottt, its very difficult to tell.
Simply take two of Manu's latest so-called flops. Last night's "hugging Amare", IMO, was a blatant flop, but others saw it as a legit foul. The AD elbow-hitting-big nose (delayed reaction) incident in the Sonics series was no flop IMO, but other saw it as a flop. In other words, as whottt said, its really hard to tell when a flop was actualy a flop or simply a legit foul.
Nevertheless, excesive flopping could ruin basketball. And Manu needs to bring it down a notch.
My two centavos.
They still want it to go 7 games so expect Miami to win in 7.
Niether series is fixed!!
In Miami the refs will be bad. Wait and see. Wade will get the Kobe treatment.
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