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  1. #176
    Linger Ficking Good! CuckingFunt's Avatar
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    The f-word is usually an immediate funny-kill for me, but I'm sure others may have gotten the humor.

  2. #177
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    My issue isn't whether or not her comments started discussion; it's whether or not that discussion is productive.
    I think it has the potential for productivity. It all depends on how people treat the conversation.

    Never said it was pointless to try. Just suggested it would require addressing several different issues in order to have any chance of sticking.
    Misunderstood you then. But I would say it's hard to effectively push a message on all fronts.

    "Unsuccessfully" being an important qualifier, there.
    I agree that it's a big distinction. What can we take from that example though? That people will listen to music they like, no matter how horrible the message, or the person sending that message? That's a rather depressing stance, but it might be valid. I'm honestly not too sure how many music/musician boycotts have been attempted (successfully or not).


    I think the tenor of the discussion in this thread has obscured my original comment and the point of my argument. I don't think that it is wrong for Judd or anyone else to call attention to the fact that hip-hop culture is incredibly misogynistic. Have never suggested that doing so is, as a concept, inaccurate or inappropriate. My point has always been that it is problematic for Ashley Judd, someone wholly removed from the hip-hop community, to single out that community as a source of negative at udes/ideals. Regardless anything else discussed within this topic -- whether or not the hip-hop community is misogynistic, whether or not other genres of music are more or less misogynistic, whether or not the overtness of misogyny has an impact on its negative effect, etc. -- the fact that Judd generalized about a community to which she does not belong and ignored the presence of misogyny within her own community automatically makes her comments an issue of "us" versus "them." Such an approach is always, ALWAYS, more divisive than it is productive.
    I can understand that point, and agree. I am optimistic that GOOD discussion could possibly come from what is admittedly a poor choice by Judd.

    The only reason I even went down this road was to refute specific comments that rap/hip-hop reflected and influenced the black community, and it seems we both agree that the community with which it interacts is far more diverse than that. As for the rest of it, I was perhaps not clear enough in my original comments on the subject, but I don't think the white community has had a direct impact on what people say (don't think, for example, that there are necessarily meetings in which rappers are explicitly told to stick to subjects that wouldn't otherwise interest them), but it has certainly had an impact on determining what is heard.
    Agreed, and I was pretty blunt in my first comments on the thread as well.

    If, when it was new/newish, white audiences, for whatever reasons, like to listen to black rappers addressing subjects in a manner that fits their perceptions of blackness, and record execs then identify that particular style/subject as being financially lucrative, then perhaps they're more likely to gamble on artists who deal with those market tested issues than they are on artists who, I don't know, rap about their experience as a gay male or about the importance of respecting women. Fast forward twenty or so years, and you have an entire generation of listeners and artists who have grown up with the expectation/understanding that hip-hop = x, y, and z. The above is all hypothetical, of course, and completely tangential to the discussion of Judd's comments, but the underlying point is that the potential impact of a largely white audience makes it impossible to realistically discuss hip-hop as the reflection of black culture alone.
    Agreed.

  3. #178
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    The f-word is usually an immediate funny-kill for me, but I'm sure others may have gotten the humor.
    Scott Thompson disagrees.

  4. #179
    Banned CubanSucks's Avatar
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    The f-word is usually an immediate funny-kill for me, but I'm sure others may have gotten the humor.
    ? Oh you're talking about !







    But seriously though, try to fix that bleeding heart of yours and get over yourself

  5. #180
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Judd was just attacking something she knows little about. I'm pretty sure Judd's hip hop collection is non existent. There was no rational for her attack.

    Don't even try to defend her. At BEST her bull was just flat out re ed and at worst it was racist. I'm choosing to believe she just attacked it out of ignorance (I would LOVE to see whats on Judd's Ipod so I could find some on there) but yeah.

    That Rap doesn't hide it as well as others is just bull . How many times do we have to provide overt examples of misogyny in music outside of rap to prove that point? Its ing overt!

    LNG, where you see "worse hiding" I see people who just willfully ignore it in other music and seek it out in rap
    .
    IDK Manny. I completely get your point, but I also don't think it's black and white. I think your last statement, underlined above, is a pretty big generalization and would bet most people don't willfully ignore it in non-rap genres. Especially for a lot of people who aren't extremely into music as an art and into appreciating thoughtful lyrics. The type of people who only listen to music casually, on the go/in the car, and don't seek it out on their own time too much. I think a large percentage of the adult population, across all races, can be classified in this category. Certainly my parents and tons of other adults I know in this country. And also as we know, a lot of people are simply stupid. If you add all of those factors, and then agree with me that gangsta rap, which is just talking with a rhythm, it really is much easier to notice misogyny in rap music, on average.

    I truly believe with the inherent musical differences in the genres, you have to "seek it out" much more frequently in rock than in rap. In rap, it slaps you in the face in plain talking, violent tone, over and over within a single song.

  6. #181
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Comparatively, how much of this discussion has been dedicated to identifying the source of misogyny within contemporary popular culture and looking for a solution?
    I actually tried to expand the conversation...

  7. #182
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    So let's discuss it. How much of that problem is chicken (rap artists being misogynystic and kids liking it) and how much is egg (rap artists being misogynystic BECAUSE kids like it)?

    And why did white kids identify with gangsta rap so much in the 90's? Simple fantasy fulfillment? A shared sense of rebellion? They wanted to piss off their parents?
    Fantasy fulfillment and shared sense of rebellion are probably the two best factors you gave, but probably not extremely big compared to the same reason anyone likes any type of music. The pissing off parents part is probably the least significant. As a suburban kid with most of my friends growing up being white and enjoying rap, I'd have to say for the most part it's really just the sound of the music, like any other appeal to other genres. I like the beats. Really, the reason why I love rap music so much is because of the beats, not much because of the lyrics. And of course it makes for popular party music in this time period in this country, and I like it a lot for getting pumped for sports and while at the gym.

    Any music that gets me in a violent and gangsta mood is a big plus for sports. In HS, before football games on game day I'd only listen to angry rap with very heavy beats, and some heavy metal on the side

  8. #183
    Motivation for me... Stringer_Bell's Avatar
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    Good looking white hoe, tbh

  9. #184
    uups stups! Cant_Be_Faded's Avatar
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    Gorgeous, really.

  10. #185
    Believe. mingus's Avatar
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    The cough analogy made perfect sense to me for the reasons I mentioned, but it's not my analogy so I'm not going to put any more energy into explaining/defending it.

    However, I take issue with the suggestion that hip-hop culture is a product solely of the black community. Or that it influences only the black community. As soon as it moved off the streets of New York and into the major recording studios, it has influenced, and been influenced by, the white community just as much as anyone else. You're nuts if you think the hyper-masculinity and misogyny present within early gangsta rap would have been anywhere near as popular or as lucrative as it was if not for its appeal to the white suburban kids who bought it in droves. It's frankly negligent to discuss the misogyny present within hip-hop lyrics (or any other characteristics of the genre) without considering the possible effect of its mixed audience on the popularity of certain trends and themes.
    i don't think it influences only the black community, but its meaning doesn't translate the same way to suburban whites, or blacks, as it does to urban blacks. the kids that don't have two parents because their dads are too busy ing hoes and gangbanging (both of which rap glorifies--again not saying its the root of the problem, but that it adds fuel to the fire) and look up to rappers are the ones that are affected, not some white kid who wants to pretend he's some bad ass by listening to it vicariously.

  11. #186
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    Damn, she's really late on this one. Did she just start to listen to rap music and become aware of the es, hoes, s, etc...?

  12. #187
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    Reminds of of our cruise we took a week or so ago. We went to watch Karaoke one night just because we had never done so before.

    Some 10 year old girl got up on stage with her older sister and did some Rhiana song about making her man feel good in bed, etc, complete with suggestive dancing and all...they were actually good singers, BUUTTTT I felt like Chris Hansen was gonna come snatch us all up at any moment. It was totally awkward.

  13. #188
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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  14. #189
    <><><><><><> ALVAREZ6's Avatar
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    Reminds of of our cruise we took a week or so ago. We went to watch Karaoke one night just because we had never done so before.

    Some 10 year old girl got up on stage with her older sister and did some Rhiana song about making her man feel good in bed, etc, complete with suggestive dancing and all...they were actually good singers, BUUTTTT I felt like Chris Hansen was gonna come snatch us all up at any moment. It was totally awkward.
    You should've gotten on stage and slapped the out of those little s.

  15. #190
    Banned CubanSucks's Avatar
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    You should've gotten on stage and slapped the out of those little s.
    and found their parents and repeat

  16. #191
    go balls deep for jesus Kermit's Avatar
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    Lick my ass, up and down
    Lick it till your tongue turns doodoo brown

  17. #192
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Rap certainly has the most explicit lyrics of any genre: talking about selling drugs, repping street gangs, and ing hoes is pretty much exclusive to rap, simply because those types of lyrics completely lack the subtlety shown in most of rock and pop, especially older stuff.

    If you want to talk about the culture of the musicians themselves, I doubt there's any difference between rockers or rappers, nor will there ever be. Big cars and houses, hot groupies, lots of cash, it's all the same across the spectrum.

    How much those explicit lyrics affect the listeners, that's up for speculation. I personally find most rap and hip hop to be really ty and obviously marketed to the young and obviously shallow who are already easily influenced by anything loud, boisterous, and obnoxious.

  18. #193
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    How much those explicit lyrics affect the listeners, that's up for speculation. I personally find most rap and hip hop to be really ty and obviously marketed to the young and obviously shallow who are already easily influenced by anything loud, boisterous, and obnoxious.
    What hiphop/rap do you like? Curious.

  19. #194
    Smell The Wallet Soul_Patch's Avatar
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    I remember when this was the , back in like 7th grade....hahah...

  20. #195
    Believe. Mulchie's Avatar
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    Rihanna ain't helpin' with her music and sexual lyrics and talking about wanting to be tied up and spanked while getting that ass waxed.

  21. #196
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Rihanna ain't helpin' with her music and sexual lyrics and talking about wanting to be tied up and spanked while getting that ass waxed.
    Fairly mysogynist post, tbh.

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