Reply With Quote
I think Pietrus might be a realistic option. Him and McDyess can be traded one for one, and PHX could then save money on cutting McDyess for the partial guarantee while getting rid of one of their many wing players.
With no money to spend, that is an impossibility. You have to package size with talent. You can't throw out garbage bigs and expect the Spurs to contend. RJ f*cked this team in more ways than one. Not only has his game wasted away, but that contract will prevent the Spurs from improving the team. Its also made the FO gun shy of making anymore moves that could drastically alter the team's structure for fear it wouldn't work. I said it was a bad trade then but I was dead wrong, it was catastrophic.
Last edited by Hoops Czar; 04-30-2011 at 04:47 PM.
I think Pietrus might be a realistic option. Him and McDyess can be traded one for one, and PHX could then save money on cutting McDyess for the partial guarantee while getting rid of one of their many wing players.
If Dwight Howard does not accept the Magic's contract extension should we take him for one year then he can leave if he wants but we can at least try to win one last championship?
Magic get:
-Richard Jefferson
-George Hill
-Dejuan Blair
-Tiago Splitter
Spurs get:
-Dwight Howard
Works on ESPN trade machine
re: the Spurs being contenders
I'm fine with a farewell tour, but people thinking the Spurs could be contenders are fooling themselves. Are the other teams going to get worse now? Is Memphis going to get worse? Is OKC going to get worse? Are the Lakers going to get much worse? Is Dallas going to get much worse? Is Portland going to get worse? How are the Spurs supposed to get better?
But moreover, this team won't win with Pop anymore. Because Pop will not change. He had all season to get Splitter ready. All damn season, especially after seeing how disastrously inadequate the non-Duncan bigs were last postseason. He already should have learned the lesson from George Hill's rookie year. But NO. He kept up his dementia with nonsense like, "It wouldn't be fair to the team".
That isn't changing. Pretend all you want that some superstar is going to dropped into the Spurs hands by Lady Luck. Even if that happened, even if the 1st rounder this year is a ready-to-go difference maker, even if Ryan Richards blows up the world as a Blake-Griffin-meets-Dirk hybrid, even if James Anderson becomes talked about like he was the next Danny Granger, even if Nando De Colo/Viktor Sanikidze/Dashaun Butler/Danny Green/2nd Rounder/Anyone becomes the lynchpin . . .
Pop will screw it up.
It's as simple as that. And I love Pop. Love him like a family member. , love him more than most of my family members. And most Spurs fans do.
But the truth is there and it hurts. Pop won't get it right. He'll bumble it up and get stubborn and ornery about it. It'll be smallball. It'll be benching and then hating Bowen. It'll be never giving chances to young players while garbage vets get time. It'll be benching Hill and Splitter. It'll be falling in love with players who hurt the Spurs like Finley and Bonner and Jefferson. AND the defense . . . it's never coming back like the old days. Pop will never have the best team on paper any more. He never won a lot of series as the underdog in the past, and that's what the Spurs will continue to be in the playoffs in the west: underdogs.
Even if you can convince yourself that Tim Duncan is still going to be a star next year when he's even older . . . Pop won't give him the help he needs. Sure, he could play Splitter a lot next year, but he'll find some other way to undercut the playoff potential of the Spurs.
Rebuild.....
Anything you add to make the team better will be countered by the worse and worse production from Manu/Duncan as they get older.
Trade them while they have value and jump start a rebuild.
"You are all delusional. We're fine. We just were unlucky with the timing on the injuries and we lost our mojo for the stretch run because of them. We just need to get a little luckier next season with the injury bug, Splitter going through training camp, and Dice not retiring."
Anyone who watched the series knows Memphis isn't a bad team.Both events are linked.
It's because Memphis are a bad team
Sub par take
I'm most concerned about the Spurs winning another championship. And by far the option that makes the most sense is to keep Duncan around. He's not a top five player anymore but he's still easily a championship caliber starter.
There's no way you go to him with the defeatist at ude of telling him the best the Spurs can do now is make it to the second round. That makes no sense.
1. The only team that would want TP or Manu would be contenders. The most contenders can give you are weak draft picks and mediocre talent.
2. Say you trade TP and Manu, that would actually hurt you in terms of tanking. Whatever players you'd get back would make the Spurs too good to properly tank.
3. In the big picture of rebuilding a championship contender, whatever scraps the Spurs can get for TP and Manu are worthless. You need to land that Top 50 Player of All-Time first and then build around that. There's no other avenue of doing it once one era has reached the end.
Our give 3 gave me a lot of happines, i don't mind sucking for 3 years if they want to retire Spurs, i would just love to cheer for them and let them enjoy the chemistry they have with the fans. They deserve it.
If we can surround them with better players than them so that Ginobili and Duncan can ; take a serious backseat, so be it, but if we can't i understand it perfectly.
Of course will be nice to see two of the Anderson, Blair, Hill and Neal emerge as a legit 2nd and 3rd best player on the team (considering next year team will be "Parker oriented)
but i doubt that happen.
We are off for two farewell seasons, Timmy's last and Manu's last, and then a couple of rebuilding seasons, but the Big 3 did put the franchise in position to a good rebuilding, we have now around the NBA the complexion of a well runned and winner franchise, and winners do choose money, but they also choose the winner mentality this core has brought to San Antonio.
Then do you guys really want to see the Big 3 struggle for the next few seasons? I think some might be still looking at the big 3 like they are not aging
I wouldn't welcome it, but it wouldn't shock me. Players get old. You can't avoid that.
Sure we could be the Lakers and put around Duncan 4 allstars, but we don't get to spend 90 millons a season.
Neither i am sure if that is what i really like.
If we can somehow manage to surround them with a compe ive cast, obviously that would be better, but if the management fails, i understand it, it's not easy to sign good players with no money and no draft picks. We passed on Scola, we missed on Jefferson, that's it, happens. We got Ginobili and Parker out of thin air.
Do you expect us to trade Jefferson horrific deal for David Lee and youngsters? we are not the Lakers, that won't happen.
The other thing to do i to assume that the best movement to look to win soon (not now, but soon) will be to trade Ginobili and Duncan (and Parker if a good deal comes) for picks and young players, Duncan and Ginobili, particulary, because of their level and shorter contracs might have good value, but still i am not sure if i want them defending other franchises, and i sure wouldnt agree on trading either of them to a rebuilding team looking to sheed salary. If i do have to see any of the big 3 on another team i at leas would like to send them to a team where they can attempt to win.
Exactly. You made my point for me.
What sounds more likely:
1. Splitter turns into a 12-points, 10-rebound defensive force. Neal or Hill take the next step to be either a legit starting shooting guard or a 6MOY candidate. Another two or three horses can be located that can carry the slack. The Old Big 3 can peak in the playoffs. The Spurs make one last surprising run with a team that depends on six or seven players rather than three.
2. You blow it up. You tank for however long it takes to get a No. 1 pick in a year when a sure-fire Hall of Famer is eligible for the draft. After you do that, you go out and somehow get two more All-Star level talents. Once you have that team set, you go get the right role players.
The first option is a long shot. I'm the first one to admit that. But there is a shot there. I don't know how but then again, it's not like we knew how the Spurs were going to survive the decline of Robinson. Nobody saw how the Spurs were going to get one of the best backcourts of all-time with a late first rounder and a late second rounder. Lighting might strike for the fourth time.
The second option, although it seems somewhat plausible on paper, is much more of a long shot. And it could take ten years. It could take 100 years. It may never happen. And really, nothing you do now will speed up the process. It's a matter of getting lucky and then making the right moves afterwards.
IMO, the options aren't even close. The chances are 1000% greater to stumble upon a strong enough supporting cast for the Old Big 3 than it is to start over and have a championship contender within the next two decades.
I could go either way.
I'd be perfectly happy watching a 2 or maybe even 3 year farewell tour as long as trash like Jefferson and Bonner are kept out of uniform. BUT I'm not delusional enough to think the Spurs would be contenders. Others are losing their objectivity and talking themselves into it when they should know better. This isn't a situation where the Spurs can 're-load', they can just 're-tread'.
I still enjoy watching Manu in the regular season, plus TD and Parker. But having to see Jefferson and Bonner crap all over the Spurs franchise and fans with their wretchedness drains the fun out of it. I already declared last summer, and have held to it, that I wouldn't spend a dime on the Spurs as long as Bonner was on the team. I'll be very happy when I get to spend money on the Spurs again.
BUT
I'd also be fine with a harsh re-build. I've enjoyed the out of the Duncan era, I don't need a lost-cause set of lost-seasons. Getting the brunt of the hurt and bitterness out of the way during the lockout year, when a shortened season will already have burned out many casual fans, doesn't sound so bad.
Splitter is definitely capable of 12pts and 10rebs. I can see Gary Neal being a Jamal Crawford type 6th man.
We still need move Rj,Bonner,and Blair. Fill the starting SF and backup PF/C positions.
I mean, it's not a bad point, but the future is what is important now. Yeah, this year's team peaked at the wrong time and its strategy was flawed from the beginning.
But let's say Splitter erupts, Hill, Blair and/or Neal take the next step, and a couple more quality role players can be found, what team's would be unbeatable next year for the Spurs ... even with the Old Big 3 one year older?
I'd say probably the Lakers ... then again, without Phil Jackson and an older Kobe ... who knows?
I absolutely see no reason to blow up a team that has the ability to be a top three team in the conference. Yeah, the Spurs will need to be fortunate for that to happen ... but not nearly anywhere as fortunate as they'd need to be to become a legit championship contender within the next few decades in a total rebuild scenario.
I totally agree with you that Bonner and RJ don't deserve to play on the same court that the Big 3 does.
So we're all agreeing that Bonner and Jefferson should be out of the team? Finally!
It's funny that Spurs fans that like to talk about how "spoiled" other Spurs fans are because of the team's success, but then turn around 180 degrees after a humiliating loss and think that the Spurs can just be down a few seasons and suddenly get another hall of fame player in the draft thanks to ping pong balls. There have been five sure-fire hall of fame number one picks since 1984. The Spurs have gotten two of them.
Have you really found that the Spurs/Grizzlies series was played at a high level? I haven't.Anyone who watched the series knows Memphis isn't a bad team.
Sub par take
So it makes no sense to tell the truth.
The key of our disagreement is that we have a different evaluation of Spurs. I think that they are very far of being a legit contender and that it will be worst and worst with time. Even if some players have breakout years and the big old 3 stay healthy, I don't think Spurs will be close of winning the championship.
We can argue during pages about that but, at the end, we just have a different evaluation of Spurs.
You likely won't get a superstar by trading Parker and/or Ginobili but you can get a solid 3rd or 4th option. The superstar will be had through tanking and a top5 pick.
Of course they aren't going to quit. They are playing basketball for millions of dollars. Who would quit besides Sprewell?
The organization has to pick a path, either restructure and rebuild, saving salary space for opportunities or go for another year pretty much resigned to the 10 or 15 percent chance that matchups will favor us in the playoffs.
Bruno, you need to step away from the computer while you're mourning this loss. You're not thinking clearly at all. They were a legit contender a week ago and suddenly the best way to ever have a sniff is to get rid of Parker, Manu and Duncan and spend several YEARS hoping for a lottery pick? In a month you're going to cringe when you read this stuff that you're writing.
First off, I wouldn't re-build, so much as I'd reload. They may only have one more season with Duncan and they probably won't have more than two (which is also, coincidentally, when Ginobili's contract ends). They can re-build then. I understand that it's unlikely they win another championship with this core, but it's San Antonio. They're not getting another Duncan and they're not getting another core like this. They'll be plenty of time to re-build when they're gone. But until they are, I'd continue to pursue a fifth championship.
1. I think this will happen anyway, but I'll still say it: Start Splitter. He needs to add about ten pounds of muscle (not too much, otherwise he'd risk compromising his mobility) and a semi-reliable short to mid range jump shot/free throw. Aside from that, he's an ideal complement to Duncan, because he, like Duncan, is truly a four and a half. That's what Duncan needs at this stage of his career. A true center doesn't work, because Duncan shouldn't have to guard mobile, face up fours. A true power forward doesn't work, because Duncan shouldn't have to guard traditional, back to the basket fives. Duncan is essentially without a position defensively. He needs to defend the four or the five depending on match-up. Splitter is capable of allowing him to do that.
2. Try as hard as possible to trade Jefferson and Bonner. They're mentally and physically weak and flat out are not championship caliber role players. In the Kaman thread, I've already detailed how I'd go about attempting to trade Jefferson. As for Bonner, I'd offer him to the Jazz, along with McDyess' partially guaranteed contract, for Okur. I'd only do this if the Spurs, after doing their due diligence, are confident in Okur health wise. He's got one season on his contract and is essentially a bigger version of Bonner. At 6-11, 265, he'd give the Spurs the heft they need in the middle (I'd prefer even bigger, but that's difficult to find, particularly when you're talking quality), with the ability to stretch the floor. He's not as good a shooter as Bonner, but he's still very good for a big man and unlike Bonner, his percentage doesn't fall off dramatically in the playoffs. He'd also be a nice fit next to Blair off the bench, allowing Blair to play PF. And against the bigger front lines, he could play some next to Duncan.
Why would the Jazz do it? With the Jefferson and Favors acquisitions, plus the Williams trade and Sloan's retirement, they're obviously in a re-build. Plus, they have three bigs (Millsap, being the third) they're committed to going forward, which leaves little room for Okur, who turns 32 this year. It's probably not likely he re-signs anyway. This trade gives them a lesser replacement to fill the same role, in Bonner, plus financial relief in the form of McDyess' partially guaranteed contract.
I don't see Kaman as as good a fit, but he's younger and when healthy, better. If there's a trade to be made, I'd at the very least strongly consider it. I've detailed why in the Kaman thread.
3. I'd heavily pursue Chandler (Wilson, that is). I'd offer Anderson and the 1st for his rights.
He'd give the Spurs the type of dynamic athlete they need at SF. He's 23, has excellent size for a three, can play small ball four, is an improving shooter, can be a very good defender and, as an added bonus, is an excellent shot blocker for a wing.
Why would the Nuggets do it? Word is he's not happy their. With Gallinari entrenched as the SF of the present and future and Afflalo as the SG of the present and future, he has no chance to start. Even with an opening at PF, both he and Gallinari are incapable of playing their full time, unless the Nuggets think they're going to turn Chandler into Marion/Wallace lite. So why, when you have two starting wings, commit a decent salary to a third? And why would he, a starting caliber player, want to settle for a somewhat limited role? In Anderson, the Nuggets get an inexpensive, ideal third wing type, who can shoot/score. He'd be a nice fit. The 1st, while 29th in a weak draft, gives them an additional asset.
If this fails, then I'd sign Battier. I've detailed why in the Kaman thread.
4. Sign a fifth big and a third point. As far as the big, I'd look for a big, physical post defender. Foster, Mohammed, Pryzbilla, Collins (Jason) and Dampier, are possibilities. Bottom of the barrel types include Magloire, Gadzuric, Mbenga and Collins (Jarron). I'd sign Richards.
Third point, I'd prefer a true point, but their aren't many that fit that mold that are even semi desirable options. Arroyo, Temple, Lucas, Pargo, Uzoh, Banks, Ivey, Quinn and Jerrells, are possibilities. I'd prefer to do better than this.
Mills is someone I'd pursue. If they don't cut him lose, I'd either sign him to a modest offer sheet or offer them the 2nd/De Colo's rights. Short of that, hopefully they can get someone halfway intriguing with their 2nd round pick.
I'm fine with Green/Butler as the backup SF. It's unlikely either would be in the rotation anyway, so barring injury, we're talking spot minutes. I'm also not adverse to bringing Hairston back or considering other options of a similar ilk.
5. I don't really have a five and the first four are long enough. So I'll just close by laying out my ideal roster . . .
Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Chandler, C- Splitter, SG- Ginobili, PG- Parker
Bench: PG/SG- Hill, PF/C- Blair, SG- Neal, C/PF- Okur, SF/SG- Green, C- Foster, PG- Mills
Inactive/D-League: SF/PF- Butler, PF/C- Richards
The Okur deal might actually work if the Spurs finances don't get in the way.2. Try as hard as possible to trade Jefferson and Bonner. They're mentally and physically weak and flat out are not championship caliber role players. In the Kaman thread, I've already detailed how I'd go about attempting to trade Jefferson. As for Bonner, I'd offer him to the Jazz, along with McDyess' partially guaranteed contract, for Okur.
Get an expiring to get out from Bonner's trash? DONE DEAL for me. I don't even care if Okur ever plays again. Just as long as Bonner is gone. Plus Utah gets to save money in a big way the first year . . . good deal all around.
Easy for posters to say trade our bad player for your good player-- will not happen in the real world.
Jefferson-untradeable because of his poor showing and his long contract.
Blair--who wants a 6'5" center that his coach gave a shot but gave up on when it counted. He simply doesn't have enough skills and physical ability to be coveted.
Bonner: Bad shooting in playoffs for two years doesn't give anyone a thrill when they contemplate him on their team. And then they look at his defensive ability and pass.
Hill: passive kinda guy who can play a little when he lets go. Not a bad second banana--but won't get you a star in return when packaged with any one of the threee guys above.
Neal and Splitter should be untouchable since they are the only youthful future with upside.
Anderson and the rest of the spear carriers on the bench are complete unknowns other than they didn't stand out enough to get any serious minutes.
The FO is faced with a real ty job with no real assets and no high draft choices.
Both Hill and Blair are trade-able assets. Combining those two in a trade could net a solid return.
Anderson was fine when he was healthy. He got hurt and nobody ever thought it was important to give him any minutes. Might have been nice to have him available when RJ went s up. Actually, it's entirely possible that RJ's performance was directly related to the amount of pressure put on him by Ja.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
