Kids in class with Bush on 9/11 speak out

[Nbadan]

...but there were operational errors too that could have lead to instability in the whole country...had the third plane hit the white House or Congress, as many have speculated, it could have led to the decapitation of our nation's leadership.....an effective coup putting the military in control....I'm not saying that Bush could have done anything in the first 10 minutes after the attacks, just saying that he should have used the media more effectively to assure people that he was on top of things and there was still stability in our nations leadership structure....

[Nbadan]

The U.S. had the intelligence apparatus in place to identify 3 of the 4, or more, terror teams, including Muhammad Atta, to claim now that we were simple short sighted is intellectually dishonest...

After Weldon's assertions were disputed, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, a member of the Able Danger team, identified himself as Weldon's source. Shaffer claimed that he alerted the FBI in September 2000 about the information uncovered by the secret military unit "Able Danger," but he alleges three meetings he set up with bureau officials were blocked by military lawyers. Shaffer, who at the time worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency, claims he communicated to members of the 9/11 Commission that Able Danger had identified two of the three cells responsible for 9/11 prior to the attacks, but the Commission did not include this information in their final report.[25]

Shaffer's lawyer, Mark Zaid, has revealed that Shaffer had been placed on paid administrative leave for what he called "petty and frivolous" reasons and had his security clearance suspended in March 2004, following a dispute over travel mileage expenses and personal use of a work cell phone.[26]

As Lt. Col. Shaffer received a memorandum of OPCON status from Joint Task Force (JTF) 121, confirming his attachment to this element 1 November through 1 December 2004, and participating in the 75th Ranger Regiment's nighttime air assault of 11 November 2003, the controversy of his wearing the 75th Ranger Regiment patch as his "combat patch" is closed in his favor. In the Army Reserve, LtCol Shaffer is now assigned as the G6 of the 94th Division (Prov), Ft. Lee, VA.

Congressman Weldon asked for a new probe into the activities undertaken to silence Lt. Col Shaffer from publicly commenting on Able Danger and Able Danger's identification of the 9/11 hijackers. Weldon called the activities "a deliberate campaign of character assassination."[27]

Shaffer has also told the story of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) opposition to Able Danger, prior to 9/11, based on the view Able Danger was encroaching on CIA turf. According to Shaffer, the CIA representative said, "I clearly understand. We're going after the leadership. You guys are going after the body. But, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is, CIA will never give you the best information from "Alex Base" or anywhere else. CIA will never provide that to you because if you were successful in your effort to target Al Qaeda, you will steal our thunder. Therefore, we will not support this."[28]

Wikipedia

[Nbadan]

Atta was identified by Able Danger in January/February 2000," he was quoted as saying.

Navy Captain Scott Phillpott

Wiki

[Nbadan]

So why did the government destroy tetrabytes of information uncovered by Able Danger and intimidate witnesses.... what did it have to hide?

Five witnesses who had worked on Able Danger and had been questioned by the Defense Department's Inspector General later told investigative journalists that their statements to the IG were distorted by investigators in the final IG's report, or the report omitted essential information that they had provided. The alleged distortions of the IG report centered around excluding any evidence that Able Danger had identified and tracked Atta years before 9/11. The witnesses reported to the journalists that the IG investigators got increasingly hostile in an effort to intimidate the witnesses into changing their testimony to drop any assertion that they had identified and tracked Atta, and this suggests a cover-up by the IG of Able Danger's findings. Witnesses reported telling Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 Commission, that Able Danger had identified Atta well before the 9/11 attacks, but Zelikow showed no interest in their testimony. Lt. Col Tony Shaffer also reported that the DOD has retaliated against him for speaking out publicly about the IG report's distortions.[55]

Wiki

[Nbadan]

Finally,,

With a scheduled release of August 31, 2010, Operation Dark Heart, by Anthony A. Shaffer, was released. It includes memories of his time reporting to the 9/11 commission about Able Danger's findings. The 10,000 copies of the books have not been released yet. The DOD's Defense Intelligence Agency reviewers identified more than 200 passages suspected of containing classified information.[57] "Specifically, the DIA wanted references to a meeting between Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer, the book's author, and the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow, removed".[58] DOD took the highly unusual step of purchasing all available copies of Shaffer's book at a cost of $47,000 and destroying them to deny the public the ability to read the book.[55]

Wiki

The government not only had the operational capability to identify Atta and many other 911 conspirators, it did....first-hand evidence like this is preciously why I support another investigation into not only the events of 911, but also the cir stances that lead to 911.... anyone who supports the 911 commission report and its fabrication of distortions is lying - book it.

[ChumpDumper]

Which kid from the 9/11 reading wrote that wikipedia entry?

[Blake]

What about a coach who calls a risky play? The same thing occurs; it succeeds and the coach is a genius. It fails and the coach is a dunce.

what do you call the coach who isn't even at the game when his team starts play?

And you've failed to show anywhere that said ten-minute lapse actually involved unnecessary risk. I can't imagine what could have occurred in the space of those ten minutes that would've required any such decision. What unnecessary risk was Bush taking?

In your opinion, what's the appropriate amount of time for Bush to leave when told of an attack before he should be criticized?

[DarrinS]

One of the Bush administrations biggest failure was ignoring German intelligence on Muhammad Atta and letting him back into the U.S. without notifying domestic intelligence sources of his whereabouts and his su ious behavior and associations in Germany 2000

How can YOU think this was a failure when YOU believe Bush/Cheney brought down those buildings?

[clambake]

he gotcha there, danny.

[LnGrrrR]

what do you call the coach who isn't even at the game when his team starts play?

Jim Caldwell.

In your opinion, what's the appropriate amount of time for Bush to leave when told of an attack before he should be criticized?

Already answered, but the "appropriate" time would of course be as soon as he heard it. Anything over 15 mins would be "grossly inappropriate". Anything under that is "inappropriate."

Again, I don't think it was necessarily the "right" move to make, but I don't think it made a big difference.

[LnGrrrR]

Nothing happened the rest of that day, would you be ok if he read the rest of the 2nd grade books in the school library to the kids? You know, since in hindsight it was no big deal.

I already answered that above; if he had stayed much longer than he did I would be agreeing with all of you.

Also, is time not a factor in military operations? 7 other planes could have slammed into buildings in ten minutes. Or 15 planes. Maybe they could have detonated a couple of bombs at the base of the 50 tallest buildings in the US. Who knows? No one did at that time.

So what was Bush supposed to have done, in that instance? Help me out: in your hypothetical, what could he have done? Call out fighters to escort each plane out of the sky? Mobilized the military and ins uted martial law?

If the above DID happen, then Bush would have reacted to them as they occurred. And if another plane/atk occurred somewhere else, it's quite likely that his aides would have informed him the moment they were made aware.

At the very least (as has been posted in this thread) probably the things he did in the 10 minutes after leaving the room.

So did his actions in that first ten minutes save 3k potential lives? What actions do you think he took in that first ten minutes?

You are quite welcome

If you're interested in debating fairly, the least you could do is not assume your opponent is a dullard.

[Blake]

Already answered, but the "appropriate" time would of course be as soon as he heard it. Anything over 15 mins would be "grossly inappropriate". Anything under that is "inappropriate."

Again, I don't think it was necessarily the "right" move to make, but I don't think it made a big difference.

In hindsight, it apparently made no discernable difference at all, but the wrong move is still the wrong move.... regardless of how much the kids and the principal gushed over the way Bush continued to finish reading My Pet Goat

[ChumpDumper]

No , what if the school was planned to be hit? Are you telling us they knew that wasn't going to happen at the time?

[clambake]

No , what if the school was planned to be hit? Are you telling us they knew that wasn't going to happen at the time?

keeping bush alive had to be part of the plan.

[LnGrrrR]

No , what if the school was planned to be hit? Are you telling us they knew that wasn't going to happen at the time?

If they had the timing and intel to know he would be in the school, and be able to hit him within that ten minute window, I doubt that him moving anywhere would have made a difference. If they had planning on blowing up/attacking the school while he was there, they could have done it as soon as they saw him starting to leave.

[ChumpDumper]

keeping bush alive had to be part of the plan.

lol But seriously, Secret Service agents practically lifted Cheney up by his arms and hustled him out of the White House at the same time this stuff was going on, and that place is a slightly harder target than an elementary school.

[ChumpDumper]

If they had the timing and intel to know he would be in the school, and be able to hit him within that ten minute window, I doubt that him moving anywhere would have made a difference. If they had planning on blowing up/attacking the school while he was there, they could have done it as soon as they saw him starting to leave.

Why would they have to wait until he left? Why stay anywhere people would know you were scheduled to be at that point?

[LnGrrrR]

In hindsight, it apparently made no discernable difference at all, but the wrong move is still the wrong move.... regardless of how much the kids and the principal gushed over the way Bush continued to finish reading My Pet Goat

I don't think I've said it was the correct move. I just think there's much ado over nothing.

[ChumpDumper]

Ultimately it is a minor point, but some bag wanted to bring it up.

[clambake]

might have been the only mistake-free ten minutes of his presidency.

[LnGrrrR]

Why would they have to wait until he left? Why stay anywhere people would know you were scheduled to be at that point?

Yes, for security reasons it probably would've made more sense to move him immediately. But if he was threatened at the school, then I don't think him moving in those ten minutes made much of a difference. (Ie. if they were going to attack Bush there, everything would've been planned in advance with them able to "push the button" at any time.)

Also, the building was likely "cased out" beforehand for bombs and weapons, but that's just an assumption.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, for security reasons it probably would've made more sense to move him immediately. But if he was threatened at the school, then I don't think him moving in those ten minutes made much of a difference. (Ie. if they were going to attack Bush there, everything would've been planned in advance with them able to "push the button" at any time.)

Also, the building was likely "cased out" beforehand for bombs and weapons, but that's just an assumption.

Did they check for superexplosivenanothermite?

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, for security reasons it probably would've made more sense to move him immediately. But if he was threatened at the school, then I don't think him moving in those ten minutes made much of a difference. (Ie. if they were going to attack Bush there, everything would've been planned in advance with them able to "push the button" at any time.)

Also, the building was likely "cased out" beforehand for bombs and weapons, but that's just an assumption.

I love how you think its ok for a country that was just attacked by surprise to make assumptions about safety.

[MannyIsGod]

If they had the timing and intel to know he would be in the school, and be able to hit him within that ten minute window, I doubt that him moving anywhere would have made a difference. If they had planning on blowing up/attacking the school while he was there, they could have done it as soon as they saw him starting to leave.

LOL At Intel. The Presidential interary is very public information.

[LnGrrrR]

I love how you think its ok for a country that was just attacked by surprise to make assumptions about safety.

I love how you think you know more about security than the secret service.