Major overhaul of US life urged to cure obesity: experts

[Blake]

And also, lol blake.

in b4 "you're obsessed with me"

Beat me in calling you obsessed. Well done.

[RandomGuy]

Where are these 40-80 hour work week peeps living that they are 1) working up to 80 hours a week and 2) can't easily access a supermarket? Something's not making sense here.

And also, lol blake.

Google and the words "working poor" are that way ---->



(edit)

Here is a good book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0805063897

[rjv]

by the way, i go to the pearl market 2 times a month. always have to be prepared to drop close to 100.00 for about a week's worth of meat, produce and bread.

[RandomGuy]

that appears to be the variable that would not suddenly become available

... and that is why you make sure that such food *is* available, before taking such a step.

One can't just tax junk food, one has to do a LOT of things at once, and that is just a minor part of it.

[vy65]

Google and the words "working poor" are that way ---->

Did a quick search and couldn't find anything that suggested the working poor are so removed from grocery stores as to make shopping there an unreasonable burden. Maybe you can help out?

[vy65]

Beat me in calling you obsessed. Well done.

lol no reply
lol getting on in this thread per/par
lol probably likes it
lol obsessed
lol cuck

[Wild Cobra]

The other thing that has been found, is that whatever grocery stores are in areas like poor neighborhoods, is that they charge more for the same goods that might be gotten in the burbs.

We suck at planning out cities and urban areas to have access to decent food, and it goes beyond merely being "inconvenient".

It isn't like people are choosing to eat crap because it is a bit out of their way to get better food.

Sometimes, you have little or no choice in the matter.

Maybe you should look into the reasons why the prices are higher.

Do you think the stores pay higher insurance rates and maybe have more theft problems? I'll bet the these higher prices do have a correlation to local crime rate.

I'm sure some of the pricing is because they do have a captive set of costumers, but not all is. they still have some nearby compe ion.

[Wild Cobra]

Where are these 40-80 hour work week peeps living that they are 1) working up to 80 hours a week and 2) can't easily access a supermarket? Something's not making sense here.

And also, lol blake.

Maybe it's another strawman.

[RandomGuy]

Did a quick search and couldn't find anything that suggested the working poor are so removed from grocery stores as to make shopping there an unreasonable burden. Maybe you can help out?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=139

Couple good links there for starters.

There are some fair studies on the phenomenon.

[elbamba]

Where are these 40-80 hour work week peeps living that they are 1) working up to 80 hours a week and 2) can't easily access a supermarket? Something's not making sense here.

And also, lol blake.

I put in on average 60 hours M-F. I do have access to supermarkets.

I usually go to the store on the way home from work every 10 days or so and stock up on carrots and dried fruit for work snacks.

[RandomGuy]

Maybe you should look into the reasons why the prices are higher

Done.

Maybe you should do the same.

[elbamba]

grocery stores typically do not stock products in higher volumes in stores located in neighborhoods not typically seeking out those products. flax seed can be found in any north side HEB in san antonio but not so much in any west side store. conversely, tripe can be readily found in the west side while probably not the most commonly sought out product in a central market.

I agree. But I don't think a lack of flax seed cons utes unhealthy food. Any of those store sell Bananas and carrots which are just as cheap as typical snack food.

[RandomGuy]

I put in on average 60 hours M-F. I do have access to supermarkets.

I usually go to the store on the way home from work every 10 days or so and stock up on carrots and dried fruit for work snacks.

Children? Number of people in household?

(edit)

More curious than anything else, don't take it as hostile in any way. Always good to get first hand information.

[coyotes_geek]

because there is a huge profit to be made from taxation of these products. but if you are implying, or even arguing, that it would be fair to continue to tax products that are addictive to the point that it would not impact the industries that sell them (because people will continue to buy) then i understand. that view is certainly not a moral position by any means. rather, it appears to be a justification for taxation on the pretense that it is meant to protect other taxpayers. personally, if i'd rather see such efforts aimed against corporate oligarchies than the middle and lower class demographic. if, on the other hand, your position is that given the choice between more expensive junk food or healthier albeit expensive groceries, people will suddenly change their lifestyles, i do not feel inclined to think this would happen. it would make more sense to create stronger nutrition and fitness initiatives in certain populations to create that kind of shift.

While I do think that taxing junk food wouldn't put anyone out of business, that's not really what I'm implying/arguing. I'm also not trying to take any kind of a moral position here. I'm taking a premise that it's the government's responsibility to lower healthcare costs and looking for something the government could do that is a step in the right direction.

Given that obesity is a large part (pardon the pun) of the reason why costs are escalating, I think the concept of targeting a behavior that contributes to people becoming obese makes a lot of sense. Generate revenue, give it back to the people via HSA accounts for them to use on their personal medical expenses. Would the mere presence of a junk food tax force people to change their lifestyles? For most people, no. You still end up with a pot of money that can be used to help people lower their medical costs. You could even use some of the money to help fund whatever additional nutrition and fitness initiatives.

[rjv]

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0...838-6/abstract

[RandomGuy]

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0...838-6/abstract

For those adverse to clicking links:

Background
Poor dietary patterns and obesity, established risk factors for chronic disease, have been linked to neighborhood deprivation, neighborhood minority composition, and low area population density. Neighborhood differences in access to food may have an important influence on these relationships and health disparities in the U.S. This article reviews research relating to the presence, nature, and implications of neighborhood differences in access to food.

Methods
A snowball strategy was used to identify relevant research studies (n=54) completed in the U.S. and published between 1985 and April 2008.

Results
Research suggests that neighborhood residents who have better access to supermarkets and limited access to convenience stores tend to have healthier diets and lower levels of obesity. Results from studies examining the accessibility of restaurants are less consistent, but there is some evidence to suggest that residents with limited access to fast-food restaurants have healthier diets and lower levels of obesity. National and local studies across the U.S. suggest that residents of low-income, minority, and rural neighborhoods are most often affected by poor access to supermarkets and healthful food. In contrast, the availability of fast-food restaurants and energy-dense foods has been found to be greater in lower-income and minority neighborhoods.

Conclusions
Neighborhood disparities in access to food are of great concern because of their potential to influence dietary intake and obesity. Additional research is needed to address various limitations of current studies, identify effective policy actions, and evaluate intervention strategies designed to promote more equitable access to healthy foods.

Thank you.

[elbamba]

Children? Number of people in household?

3 and a wife total of 5. Wife is now stay-at-home mom. My response was to VR not you. I realize that I am very fortunate. I do my own shopping because I like to see what I am eating before I buy and I have always done my own shopping. While my wife cooks dinner I am responsible for my own breakfast and lunches.

However, I was poor for the better part of ten years when I married in college and then went to grad school. That was when I lived in KCMO and my wife worked while I worked and went to school.

[vy65]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=139

Couple good links there for starters.

There are some fair studies on the phenomenon.

Meh. I overlooked those links, sure. But the food desert article doesn't do the work I think you think it does.

[boutons_deux]

Industrial, brutalized meat at its finest:

Texas Farm Bureau backs Domino’s pig-crate decision

While some food chains, including McDonald’s, Safeway and Burger King, are phasing out controversial “gestation crates” for pigs that provide their meat, Domino’s Pizza rejected the idea, and is getting kudos from, of all people, the Texas Farm Bureau

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/hottopi...rate-decision/

[rjv]

While I do think that taxing junk food wouldn't put anyone out of business, that's not really what I'm implying/arguing. I'm also not trying to take any kind of a moral position here. I'm taking a premise that it's the government's responsibility to lower healthcare costs and looking for something the government could do that is a step in the right direction.

Given that obesity is a large part (pardon the pun) of the reason why costs are escalating, I think the concept of targeting a behavior that contributes to people becoming obese makes a lot of sense. Generate revenue, give it back to the people via HSA accounts for them to use on their personal medical expenses. Would the mere presence of a junk food tax force people to change their lifestyles? For most people, no. You still end up with a pot of money that can be used to help people lower their medical costs. You could even use some of the money to help fund whatever additional nutrition and fitness initiatives.

i'd like to know more about how we could create these HSA accounts and who would qualify for them.

[RandomGuy]

Meh. I overlooked those links, sure. But the food desert article doesn't do the work I think you think it does.

Hmm, ok. I think they work well as starter articles on the topic, though.

If you can find something better or more comprehensive, let me know, I would be interested in reading it.

[coyotes_geek]

The point I am trying to make is that there is a point where it isn't a question of merely being inconvenient, but practically impossible.

Working 40-80 hours a week, with no paid time off, and caring for kids, does not allow for a lot of time to spend on buses to shop for food several times a week.

If you go by bus, you are limited to what you can physically carry. That means you can't do all your monthly shopping in one go. No car trunk to carry things in.

If you have two or three other human beings to shop for, that means constant trips to the store, even if the store is close by.

The only way this is sustainable, is if you give up exchanging work hours for food shopping hours, adding to your costs.

time = money at some level

That is the point.

I really just have a hard time believing that there are families out there who have no other alternative than to eat every meal at a fast food joint.

[RandomGuy]

i'd like to know more about how we could create these HSA accounts and who would qualify for them.

HSA's (the "A" stands for account, fwiw)

are existing tax-deferred accounts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

You set aside pre-tax income to health expenses, to pay for things like co-pays and other out of pocket costs.

[RandomGuy]

I really just have a hard time believing that there are families out there who have no other alternative than to eat every meal at a fast food joint.

Not saying there are those, just that there tend to be some real barriers to healthy eating. A local market with no fruits/veggies on the shelves, for example.

Ramen, cookies, and sugary cereal can be just as bad in large quan ies as any cheeseburger.

[vy65]

Meh. I overlooked those links, sure. But the food desert article doesn't do the work I think you think it does.

I really just have a hard time believing that there are families out there who have no other alternative than to eat every meal at a fast food joint.

That's really my point.

I definitely think the access issue is a problem. Just not as big as you're making it seem to me. I think that where there's a will - there's a way. If you want to be and eat healthy, even if you're poor, you'll be inconvenienced and get healthy food. While I don't live in one of these areas, I don't see people being sentenced to whoppers either ...