Damn...taking political pandering to a whole new level...

[PublicOption]

[mouse]

Don't you know Mexicans can only cut grass?

Not true, they can transport it across the border.

[Sense]

@ GOP supporters generalizing the "Dreamers". You guys are thinking amnesty, when in reality this is about the Dream Act youth, which was really separated from all that amnesty talk to try to get it to pass. I like this move for a lot of reasons, and this will definitely help Obama with the latino vote. He's been criticized for the deportation number increase, and because he really hasn't delivered on what he's promised. While this is a political move, the Latinos will take it.

And no, the "Dreamers" aren't here to "cut grass" or "pick cotton".. but most of the people benefiting are probably going to work and try college, some already have degrees and will be able to use them with the work permit. From what I've seen, while most are celebrating, this is a short term solution for a long term problem. Most of these dreamers have been here for more than a decade waiting for the Dream Act to pass. Gusty call, considering the number of ignorant Americans that are going to criticize this.

[mavs>spurs]

^criticizing it isn't "ignorant." the dude totally sidestepped congress to do whatever he wants, and this isn't the first time. this country was founded on a system of checks and balances so that things are voted on by our elected officials. if the executive branch can just do whatever the it wants, then our checks and balance system that has worked for hundreds of years will become extinct. this constant erosion of the cons ution has got to stop.

for 2, we have ridiculous unemployment and our own college students can't get jobs. we have a huge student loan bubble that is threatening to burst. meanwhile obama says that "the private sector is fine" and has the ing AUDACITY to add potentially millions more to the workforce, when millions of americans are already out of work. it is his JOB to serve the interests of AMERICAN CITIZENS before those of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. what the is wrong with you?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not against the idea of amnesty itself. I'm against talking about amnesty, and making people believe it will happen. It doesn't matter if it happens or not, the talk about it does several negative things. I say we do the best we can to stop illegal immigration first. If we give one more reason for illegals to try to make it here, then we increase the problems rather than solve them. Until we can get a handle on illegal immigration, I say NO. Once we have actual control of immigration, then you would be surprised at how much amnesty I'm willing to talk about.

[Sense]

^criticizing it isn't "ignorant." the dude totally sidestepped congress to do whatever he wants, and this isn't the first time. this country was founded on a system of checks and balances so that things are voted on by our elected officials. if the executive branch can just do whatever the it wants, then our checks and balance system that has worked for hundreds of years will become extinct. this constant erosion of the cons ution has got to stop.

for 2, we have ridiculous unemployment and our own college students can't get jobs. we have a huge student loan bubble that is threatening to burst. meanwhile obama says that "the private sector is fine" and has the ing AUDACITY to add potentially millions more to the workforce, when millions of americans are already out of work. it is his JOB to serve the interests of AMERICAN CITIZENS before those of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. what the is wrong with you?

I guess I should have been more specific... the majority of Americans that will criticize this won't be thinking about "citizen's jobs". Let's be honest here, America is full of ignorant people.. the responses I saw from the media outlets was disgraceful. I could compare the responses Obama got from what he said about gay marriage, to this. I can understand any level headed American disputing the cons, heck I'm sure the dreamers would rather have people disputing jobs and laws, etc.. rather than saying " SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO.. or IF THEY'RE SO SMART THEY CAN HELP THEIR COUNTRY".. "THEY ARE CRIMINALS".

Obama pretty much made all those people "happy" for a minute by deporting more than any other president ever.. but all of a sudden he's giving out work permits to a small portion of the immigrants and people are crying? If anything, this group deserved that much, and I'm pretty sure this is going to help the economy. Also, he hasn't really said this is going to be permanent. Giving out work permits isn't like giving out citizenship.

I'm not against the idea of amnesty itself. I'm against talking about amnesty, and making people believe it will happen. It doesn't matter if it happens or not, the talk about it does several negative things. I say we do the best we can to stop illegal immigration first. If we give one more reason for illegals to try to make it here, then we increase the problems rather than solve them. Until we can get a handle on illegal immigration, I say NO. Once we have actual control of immigration, then you would be surprised at how much amnesty I'm willing to talk about.

Personally, I don't see amnesty ever happening. This move doesn't scream amnesty at all, while it does give little hope.. I think for the most part the latino population is happy it happened to the dream act eligible youth.

I don't think you can "fix" the borders. I just don't see illegal immigration ever stopping unless the process to obtain legal residency in the United States becomes easier. If you can somehow make it easier for people to get residency in the United States, I can see illegal immigration slowing down. People are not going to be waiting 10 years when you have all those problems in Mexico going on. You can't just snap your fingers and expect desperate Mexicans to stop looking for a better life. It's too hard to come here legally.

[mavs>spurs]

but all of a sudden he's giving out work permits to a small portion of the immigrants and people are crying? If anything, this group deserved that much, and I'm pretty sure this is going to help the economy. Also, he hasn't really said this is going to be permanent. Giving out work permits isn't like giving out citizenship.

this is what i just disagree with, i know TOO many people personally who are affected by this for it to just be a mere 800,000 people. i was reading on one of the big outlets earlier today i forget which one ive read so much, saying that they don't actually know how many it could be and that it could very well be in the millions.

[Borat Sagyidev]

IMMIGRANTS. you know, people from india and china who file the necessary paperwork and come here legally more often than not because it would be harder for them than simply border hopping to get in. you know, smarter people many times with educations.

it isn't the illegal be@ners starting the businesses, it's abdul starting up some gas stations and Ching with his sushi restaurant

there are a lot of hispanic entrepreneurs around here. They are HUGE in lawn care and tree trimming.

Some are even legal I bet.

The boss MAYBE.

LOL...

Exactly what I was thinking.

well 6 women whom i know quite well will be benefiting greatly from this, as well as a handful of other acquaintances and people i know through them who all have college degrees and were waiting for the opportunity to use them. a school teacher, a nurse, a finance major, management major, and an aerospace engineer just to name a few.

"this will only benefit cotton pickers and construction workers, nobody wanted those jobs anyway "

just dumb. i hope none of you have college age kids.

I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little compe ion.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

[Sense]

this is what i just disagree with, i know TOO many people personally who are affected by this for it to just be a mere 800,000 people. i was reading on one of the big outlets earlier today i forget which one ive read so much, saying that they don't actually know how many it could be and that it could very well be in the millions.

No I actually believe it is 800,000.

While I know there are more dream act eligible youth out there, way more.. this plan is going to be for people under 30. Which, honestly I find a bit odd.. There are a lot of 30+ year olds that have been waiting for the dream act for a very long time, and that "rule" is the reason you keep seeing 800,000.

[Sense]

I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little compe ion.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

I wouldn't go that far but I do agree to a certain extent. A lot of these dreamers have suffered a lot to try to get a piece of the pie millions of people take for granted. You throw the "you weren't born here!" around it's really showing fear. I know a lot of dreamers that speak better English than your regular joes, and know more about the country and they'll admit it (the joes that is).

[mavs>spurs]

I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little compe ion.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

you've always been a apologist, dude. it's evident in your posts that you weren't born in america and don't care about american citizens. we should help out our own before worrying about the interests of illegals, that's all i'm saying. if they're really smart, they can still get student visa's and go to school. these are the average joe's were talking about here, competing with our american average joes. america shouldn't place the well being of foreigners over it's own man, that's just plain wrong. there are a lot of good, above average intelligence young american college grads who don't have jobs, and this move doesn't help them. it's not all "negative contributors" as you say, you just have an axe to grind.

[Borat Sagyidev]

I wouldn't go that far but I do agree to a certain extent. A lot of these dreamers have suffered a lot to try to get a piece of the pie millions of people take for granted. You throw the "you weren't born here!" around it's really showing fear. I know a lot of dreamers that speak better English than your regular joes, and know more about the country and they'll admit it (the joes that is).

If you agree with me, why wouldn't you go that far?

I served with people in Afghanistan who would be considered "anchor babies" and worthy of deportation by some of these people given their ridiculous criteria.

I'll take it further... I'm conflicted shooting a Taliban insurgent over some of these racist trash. At least the Taliban is on the over side of the world.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/heroes/jose.gutierrez.html

[Borat Sagyidev]

you've always been a apologist, dude. it's evident in your posts that you weren't born in america and don't care about american citizens. we should help out our own before worrying about the interests of illegals, that's all i'm saying. if they're really smart, they can still get student visa's and go to school. these are the average joe's were talking about here, competing with our american average joes. america shouldn't place the well being of foreigners over it's own man, that's just plain wrong. there are a lot of good, above average intelligence young american college grads who don't have jobs, and this move doesn't help them. it's not all "negative contributors" as you say, you just have an axe to grind.

First of all,
I am born in this country, with traceable family going back centuries.

Average Joes, raised up in America are pretty much American in my book.

You use the term " " , claim" they aren't as smart "...and I have the axe to grind.

[mavs>spurs]

i said take 2 comparable people:

both are young, ambitious college kids. they may not be super geniuses trying to become a surgeon where they are guaranteed an immediate job, but hard workers nonetheless. say they are majored in something like accounting, or economics or teaching. one is a , one is a US citizen. the illegal knows he or she isn't authorized to be here. the illegal knows that his or her education is being subsidized by the legal students parents who actually pay taxes. the legal student (if white) can't get any scholarships because they are told that the quota for their demographic has been met, while the gets all kinds of assistance. With unemployment at 8.2%, now the legal student learns he or she has to compete with not only their legal classmates, but now an influx of s who are even more privileged than themselves and will benefit from affirmative action putting the white student at a disadvantage. How do you think that's fair?

[mavs>spurs]

I'll give you a hint, government stands to serve us. Not vice versa. They are the public SERVANTS of the taxpayer. The taxpayer's children should be taken care of before those of the lawbreakers. That's just the truth. We currently have 8.2% unemployment, this isn't fair to the tax payers and their children. This bas government is supposed to serve us, not vice versa. It's time they remembered what their job is, and making political moves that hurt young Americans in order to secure votes from a certain bloc isn't part of the job description.

[Sense]

i said take 2 comparable people:

both are young, ambitious college kids. they may not be super geniuses trying to become a surgeon where they are guaranteed an immediate job, but hard workers nonetheless. say they are majored in something like accounting, or economics or teaching. one is a , one is a US citizen. the illegal knows he or she isn't authorized to be here. the illegal knows that his or her education is being subsidized by the legal students parents who actually pay taxes. the legal student (if white) can't get any scholarships because they are told that the quota for their demographic has been met, while the gets all kinds of assistance. With unemployment at 8.2%, now the legal student learns he or she has to compete with not only their legal classmates, but now an influx of s who are even more privileged than themselves and will benefit from affirmative action putting the white student at a disadvantage. How do you think that's fair?

for a second there I thought you understood this issue. A lot of the dreamers came to the United States legally, but stayed illegally.. so the term doesn't fare well with this discussion. A lot of the dreamers had no clue they were here illegally. A lot of this goes back to how flawed our immigration system is. Undo ented students have to pay a lot of money to go to school, if they want to even try to go school. A lot of them don't have a choice and can't even attempt going to school, because they have to work on a ty job to try to pay for it or just to survive. The people that DO get the help, well... let's just say that the country is better off having them stay. If this plan ends up happening, this is going to be the first time anyone that has had a degree will be able to use it. Why are you blaming these students for something colleges are doing? If you think undo ented students are getting more help and have a better chance at a job than citizen you're out of your mind. It really all goes back to fear.


You can keep saying "criminals" and "they should have come here legally" etc. and it will keep proving you're ignorant and have no idea how nearly impossible it is to do that. Dreamers were raised here, all they know is the United States and I'd say almost all of them are great citizens. I really doubt you'd be able to tell them apart in the street.

Now if you were to be deported to idk.. Guatemala tomorrow, and you were told that you stayed here illegally all this time.. what would you think of the issue? Oh and please don't say, "I'd go back to Guatemala immediately" cuz that's just trolling. The fact is you'd be ting your pants.

[mavs>spurs]

Except I personally know people who do get all kinds of assistance, more than anything I ever got. I'm happy for most of them, at least the ones I consider friends but at the same time it still sort of irks me and I know it isn't right. Here I am owing 18k, and the only thing I ever got was a measly little school academic scholarship which pays for nothing. They all got more than I did for being brown, and I'm the one with the grades and the smarts.

Where's my affirmative action? That's all I want to know.

[Sense]

Except I personally know people who do get all kinds of assistance, more than anything I ever got. I'm happy for most of them, at least the ones I consider friends but at the same time it still sort of irks me and I know it isn't right. Here I am owing 18k, and the only thing I ever got was a measly little school academic scholarship which pays for nothing. They all got more than I did for being brown, and I'm the one with the grades and the smarts.

Where's my affirmative action? That's all I want to know.

So you're saying your dumber illegal friends got more assistance for being brown than you did for being smart and a citizen?

Who are you trying to fool?

[mavs>spurs]

Here I am, wanting to go back to school for a degree in geology and my best bet without taking on any more debt is to get a job in the finance department with one of the local energy companies which really limits me to just a few companies.

While people I know got entire nursing degrees and owe nothing, even though their father works construction and supports a wife and 3 kids none of whom work. Where does the money come from? She could easily turn around and go right back to school for a masters if she wanted, starting out debt free, where is the money coming from.

Questions that need answers.

[Sense]

Here I am, wanting to go back to school for a degree in geology and my best bet without taking on any more debt is to get a job in the finance department with one of the local energy companies which really limits me to just a few companies.

While people I know got entire nursing degrees and owe nothing, even though their father works construction and supports a wife and 3 kids none of whom work. Where does the money come from? She could easily turn around and go right back to school for a masters if she wanted, starting out debt free, where is the money coming from.

Questions that need answers.

those are good questions, because I've never heard of such thing.

[mavs>spurs]

So you're saying your dumber illegal friends got more assistance for being brown than you did for being smart and a citizen?

you're damn right, it's true. they have all sorts of ways for claiming dependants who don't exist and getting all sorts of money back and such. they scam the system and i'm not really up to date on all the ways it's done but i do know enough of them to know that it happens.

you know what's funny? i started putting native american as my ethnicity and got all sorts of calls back suddenly for interviews, they seemed disappointed when i showed up for the interview haha. this may sound funny to some of you in the older crowd, but young white males are the most prosecuted group in america currently courtesy of all this progressive liberal ideology.

[Sense]

you're damn right, it's true. they have all sorts of ways for claiming dependants who don't exist and getting all sorts of money back and such. they scam the system and i'm not really up to date on all the ways it's done but i do know enough of them to know that it happens.

you know what's funny? i started putting native american as my ethnicity and got all sorts of calls back suddenly for interviews, they seemed disappointed when i showed up for the interview haha. this may sound funny to some of you in the older crowd, but young white males are the most prosecuted group in america currently courtesy of all this progressive liberal ideology.

I'm 24 bro.

@ native american.. the irony.

As far as the fraud.. I'm obviously against that, but I really don't think you can generalize the dreamers with that crowd. It's true that a lot of them have to do whatever they can to finish school and try to get a job because they can't seem to get it. How they do it? I don't know, a lot of the times there's loops, other times I'm guessing they will have to commit a crime. But as far as the majority, they've all been wanting to do this the right way from the get go. They've been here for so many years they don't want to risk jail or deportation over stupid like that.

And if they do risk it, it probably means they lost hope... because over the last 11+ years nothing has been done to help them, so in a way I can understand it, even though I don't agree with it. All of this assuming you're not full of , which is highly unlikely.

[mavs>spurs]

If only my great grandmother had not been ashamed of her heritage (indians were spat on and treated way worse than even blacks were back then) and kept track of her tribal number..I could get all kinds of cool stuff from the nanny state like everyone else. I had a friend who got all of his community college paid for free (he dropped out after that and never made it to university) and got all kinds of other free stuff like laptops and even a school clothes allowance

This is all while I had to work a ty minimum wage job to pay for my classes there out of pocket. And he was no more "native american" than I am, his aunt went through the trouble of contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs and sorting everything out.

I just don't see how he was any more worthy of all that aid (or even a full blooded native american for that matter) than I am. Basically in his case it all went to waste.

Don't get me started on the scholarships for latinos.

[Wild Cobra]

Really a pisser to see someone else have en lements that we don't get, isn't it?

[mavs>spurs]

And if they do risk it, it probably means they lost hope... because over the last 11+ years nothing has been done to help them, so in a way I can understand it, even though I don't agree with it. All of this assuming you're not full of , which is highly unlikely.

Instead of sitting around waiting for a magical solution, they should have gotten in line like everyone else. This country can only support so much immigration at a time, you can never allow population growth to outpace job growth or you get unemployment. The government doesn't keep people out just to be big fat meanies, it's because we can only support so many and every country on earth has similar policies.

Rewarding them for this just sets a bad precedent and Congress didn't even vote on this and do it the legal way. Obama basically said the cons ution, I do what I want like he did in Libya.