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Mayo outscored Harden 92-88 over a 7-game series. Of course that doesn't correlate to a Spurs series, but Mayo has had some success against the Thunder.
What I'm saying is his defensive impact needs to have more of an impact when the team needs him most. That's an outlandish statement? I'm merely saying that if you switch OJ and DG during the first two series that SA still wins...I think that's a pretty fair assumption to make, don't you?
OJ would not have done any better against OKC's big 3 defensively, but who knows what he could've done offensively to offset Harden. How were they head-to-head in the playoffs last year? (seriously, i don't recall...Harden could've killed him for all I know).
That's my point, I guess. Danny is OK on offense and defense. If he falters on D, they always have SJax. OJ is subpar on D but has the potential to be explosive on O--especially in such a guard-friendly system as Pops.
Mayo outscored Harden 92-88 over a 7-game series. Of course that doesn't correlate to a Spurs series, but Mayo has had some success against the Thunder.
If the Spurs and the Thunder played a hundred series, how many of those would Danny Green outscore Harden?
a spot-up shooter was what the mavs needed and what they were seeking for, and they got it in OJ. while DG might be a better player at defensive end, he's NOT the player that fits mavs need. if you swap him & OJ then both teams (spurs and mavs) are weakened imho
spurs used to live by D but they're becoming more and more dependent on offense these days. duncan was the team's hub on both ends of the floor but at present day he's no longer able to play such level of D with his legs far behind his mind, and that's when you need some extra D from role players such as blair, DG, gangbanger etc...
mavs on the other hand are never a D-oriented team to begin with, their D witnessed significant improvement over the past years but it's still their offensive power & incessant 3pt rains that make their opponents fear them imho. mavs were searching for a wing player that can shoot and they got OJ who will fill that role, it's another shrewd signing by them mavs and you really can't argue against it
a spot-up shooter was what the mavs needed and what they were seeking for, and they got it in OJ. while DG might be a better player at defensive end, he's NOT the player that fits mavs need. if you swap him & OJ then both teams (spurs and mavs) are weakened imho
spurs used to live by D but they're becoming more and more dependent on offense these days. duncan was the team's hub on both ends of the floor but at present day he's no longer able to play such level of D with his legs far behind his mind, and that's when you need some extra D from role players such as blair, DG, gangbanger etc...
mavs on the other hand are never a D-oriented team to begin with, their D witnessed significant improvement over the past years but it's still their offensive power & incessant 3pt rains that make their opponents fear them imho. mavs were searching for a wing player that can shoot and they got OJ who will fill that role, it's another shrewd signing by them mavs and you really can't argue against it
Another interesting fact about that series, though: Mayo's minutes increased as the series progressed (to where he started the last few games). Green's minutes declined as he was benched and played sparingly towards the end. In both cases, Green and Mayo were "playoff rookies."
OJ vs OKC:
Another interesting fact about that series, though: Mayo's minutes increased as the series progressed (to where he started the last few games). Green's minutes declined as he was benched and played sparingly towards the end. In both cases, Green and Mayo were "playoff rookies."
Game 1: 28% FG
Game 2: 46% FG
Game 3: 33% FG
Game 4: 50% FG
Game 5: 22% FG
Game 6: 50% FG
Game 7: 41% FG
He had 3 respectable games out of 7 shooting wise - coupled with poor defense. His inability to consistently shoot at a respectable percentage (often time horrific shooting with two games sub 30%) is a big reason they lost the series. He simply scored more points than Harden due to high volume, low efficiency chucking and that is not a good way to evaluate players (how many points they score in a bubble).
Harden vs MEM:
Game 1: 40% FG
Game 2: 55% FG
Game 3: 44% FG
Game 4: 36% FG
Game 5: 50% FG
Game 6: 50% FG
Game 7: 60% FG
Harden shot much, much better, but did a lot more overall and played much more within their system and picked his shots better.
Danny as a spot up shooter completely owned OJ Mayo last year tbh (especially from 3 point land)...Could be a fluke, we'll see, but:
Danny:
FG: 44%
3PT: 43%
FT: 79%
TS%: 58%
eFG%: 55%
OJ:
FG: 40%
3PT: 36%
FT: 77%
TS%: 51%
eFG%: 47%
The Grizz went 2-1 in his sub-40% games...
They also lost the series because they didn't have him shooting reliably and Harden completely out played him in their comparible roles. Boiled down, OJ was terrible vs the Spurs in the playoffs and wasn't very good against OKC. He was a big reason why they lost. His shooting has been horrific in the playoffs and his defense too.
That's all fine and dandy, but they went 2-1 in his awful shooting performances, and won 2 games (game 4 and 6) where he shot well.
In Game 7 he wasn't chucking (5-12), 14 points, 5 rebs.
Do you have any more conclusive evidence that this was OJ's fault?
He shot poorly and was out played by the guy you said he out scored. Just because he took more shots at a much less efficient rate doesn't make him scoring more points relavant.
They lost the series, he sucked against the Spurs when MEM won (so I guess he gets credit there) and played the same Clippers DG played and lost to them.
Pretty week premise to blame a guy for a series loss, especially when his awful shooting games didn't end up doing the damage you hoped. Furthermore, one player was given starting and increasing minutes vs the Thunder, while the other was phased out of Pop's game plan bc he didn't show up.
Also, both Mayo and Green have played 3 playoff series. Mayo's played for a plodding halfcourt team and 2/3 playoff teams he's played have been superior to his.
Green has played in a fast-paced, guard-friendly offense and has faced inferior opponents (so says Vegas) in all 3 of his series.
Let's just agree to disagree.
His team shot 50% in game 1, Zbo dropped a triple double in game 3. They won in spite of OJ chucking. Just because your team won, doesn't mean you helped. The facts are OJ shot terrible vs the Spurs when MEM won and you tried to give him credit, you tried to give him credit vs OKC for "scoring more points" than Harden, yet I showed you why. He played the same Clippers as DG and got bounced including blowing a 20+ point 4Q lead and losing a game 7 at home where he shot .092 (1-11).
That's bad coaching.
So we ignore the fact OJ has been worse than DG in the playoffs, that he loses to the teams DG beats and that when his team wins, he sticks out like a sore thumb for his inefficient shooting. OK.
We haven't even spoken about the weak part of his game: Defense and how that played a role too.
Just saying "he sucked but his team won" while failing to acknowledge he had guys dropping triple doubles and his team shooting 50% while he shoots in the 20's makes little sense to me.
Winning in spite of OJ those 2 games=/=he cost them the series.His team shot 50% in game 1, Zbo dropped a triple double in game 3. They won in spite of OJ chucking. Just because your team won, doesn't mean you helped. The facts are OJ shot terrible vs the Spurs when MEM won and you tried to give him credit, you tried to give him credit vs OKC for "scoring more points" than Harden, yet I showed you why. He played the same Clippers as DG and got bounced including blowing a 20+ point 4Q lead and losing a game 7 at home where he shot .092 (1-11)
Frankly, it doesn't make any sense.
Danny green is a spot up shooter who will knock down open looks created by his teammates, while OJ mayo is a guy who can create his own shot and has a much more complete offensive repertoire. Comparing the 2 is massive fail. 8 pages of it is especially pathetic, as if the 2 players are anywhere near close or 30 out of 30 gm's wouldn't choose mayo.
Danny Green was benched. True or false?
DPG has entered one of those debates where he ends up arguing for the sake of DG being > than OJ. Stats aside, OJ would thrive in the spurs system as he brings more versatility off the dribble in addition to being able to put the ball in the hoop. Think of a more athletic and versatile Gary Neal.
DG is a long-armed defender with average athletecism that's vastly overrated upstairs.
Pop has catalyzed a scrub like DG to play above his ability because of system ball. Imagine what he could do with a player of OJ Mayo's upside upon integration into the rotation ?
Memphis didn't choose Mayo, nor did several other teams that let him linger in the bargain bin to sign for less guaranteed money than Danny Green and Steve Novak.
Also, in that game 1 where OJ was chuking at a sub 30% level against OKC, he has every one of his baskets assisted on (100% of them, which is what you knock DG for). So basically he can do all these things (get his own shot, be a good shooter) without actually being able to do them really.
True.
OJ Mayo shot much worse than James Harden even though he scored more points, true or false?
OJ Mayo has shot worse than DG in the playoffs, true or false?
OJ Mayo shot horrific against the Spurs they year MEM beat SA, true of false?
OJ Mayo lost to the same Clippers last year including a game 7 at home where he shot 1-11, true or false?
I never said DG>OJ - again missing the point. I have been arguing that it's not laughable to debate OJ v DG especially with regards to a system. How you fail to see this after it being repeated multiple times is beyond me.
I also love how it's "DPG" debating, but not anyone elseWho cares anyways if we are debating? It's basketball related.
I've already answered the "why OJ, even with more talent" might not do as well as DG with the Spurs: Defense.
Okay friend, so answer me this question: who has the better team defense (better system catered to defense)?I never said DG>OJ - again missing the point. I have been arguing that it's not laughable to debate OJ v DG especially with regards to a system. How you fail to see this after it being repeated multiple times is beyond me.
I also love how it's "DPG" debating, but not anyone else
I've already answered the "why OJ, even with more talent" might not do as well as DG with the Spurs: Defense.
After answering that: what team defense out of Memphis and San Antonio is able to mask an individual's defensive weaknesses (in doing so, inflating a player's defense stats leading to an overrating of that ability)
After answering those, integrate those takes into this discussion. I want to hear what the almighty DPG has to say.
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