OT: Manny Paq better not duck Money..

[Buddy Mignon]

You realize Ferguson completely beat down Mercer in 12 in Mercer's prime and Tyson stopped Ferguson in the 6th, right? It's not like these guys fought decades apart.

Its obvious that you're just a casual fan that has no clue on match-ups and styles.

[Buddy Mignon]

Buster - well buster did beat tyson in his prime. I can't argue much there. Can't make the excuse tyson was undertrained or not focused. Douglass did beat him. but if they fought 100 times. tyson wins 99 of them. haha.

Lennox - fuk no. Exacty when was Lewis' prime? was it early 90s when he was right hand crazy pre-steward beating the remains of Ruddock(which tyson had just beat his career out him). Was it the same early to mid 90s version that was ko'd in 2 by a tyson sparring partner(Mccall) and also struggled with Mercer in a fight that could have gon either way. Was it the late 90s version that struggled with Shannon Briggs and still didn't have a chin(i feel this was the best version of Lewis though). Was it the early 2000s version that was ko'd in 1 punch by rahman and fought life and death with vitaly while was he was out of shape? which version of Lewis beats a prime tyson?

Holyfield - Holyfield would have gave him a tough fight. I can't even lie, but young prime holyfield was just too stupid fr his own good. The old past his prime holyfield that fought tyson was smart. He didn't brawl, he jab and grabbed. The young holyfield was too skinny and tyson back then loved body work. When holyfield got hurt back then, he didn't hold, he fought harder. He would have gotten hurt. But tyson would not have walked thru him.

Mercer- I feel mercer could have. He had one of the best chins in boxing. Tyson could struggle with him and I don't see him getting mercer out of there early. It would be a war.

Holmes - I feel holmes would beat tyson, but tyson's style would be bad for holmes in his prime too. A younger holmes had better legs and was quicker. I can see holmes winning a decision.

Norton - NO. his weakness was punchers. tyson knocks him out

Ali - which version? and which version of tyson. People forget Ali was succeptable to left hooks. Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper both dropped Ali(when he was Clay) by brutal left hooks. And they don't hit half as hard as tyson. Fraizer hit him with left hooks for 3 fights(older Ali). Now I'm not saying tyson beats ali, but i'm not saying ali blows him out. Young tyson had left hooks and body work. Look at Ali's 1st fight with George Chuvalo. He took one of the worst body beatings he's ever taken. 87 Tyson vs young ali it's a toss up. early 30s/ post exile Ali vs post prison tyson, Ali knocks him out.

Bowe - The bowe that fought holyfield the first time, u can't name 5-7 heavyweights all time that would have beat him that night. That fighter was damn near the perfect hw. He had quickness, accuracy, power, a chin, and stamina. Unfortunately, it was the last time we saw THAT fighter. Tyson nor Lewis is beating that bowe. And before u say, "bowe ducked lewis" , that was Rock Newman's doing. Bowe would have destroyed lewis back then. Screw the olympics in 88.

Foreman - Old foreman there is a possibility, young foreman, no. Young foreman lacked stamina . See ron lyle fight. Prime Tyson aint lyle.

Shavers - possibly yes. Shavers hit hard, but he'd have to ko tyson early. If it goes past 6, tyson ko's him. He lacked stamina and a chin.

Joe Louis - no. Joe Louis was great, but he was too damn small. Louis weighed under 200 lbs. He'd be a cruiser weight by today's standards. Tyson's problems were big hws with great jabs. Louis was about an inch or so taller than tyson but he would be giving up 10-15 lbs. Too small

Jack Johnson - Can't say tyson would have beat him. Johnson was big and defensive. Could be a toss up. Tyson doesn't run through him and Johnson doesn't destroy tyson either, but I feel Johnson can win.

I'll tell you like I told the cry got... Buster was by far the weakest fighter on that list yet he dominated Tyson... in his prime.

[Buddy Mignon]

A few points of clarifications:

Pacquiao has never tested positive for steroids or other PE type drugs. The issues a few years ago when there were negotiations about an actual fight taking place was that Mayweather wanted Pacquiao to agree to a drug test that could be taken all the way up to the day of the fight. Manny didn't want to have his blood drawn the day of the fight for obvious reasons. He said he'd agree to a drug test if the stipulations were amended so he didn't have to have blood drawn the day of the fight. Floyd wouldn't agree to that.

I'm Filipino so I have obvious biases. However, in all honesty, I feel like both fighters have dodged each other all these years. I don't think either has been honest that they were both willing to fight. I agree that Manny is an Arum puppet, and I also agree that Floyd has always made unreasonable demands so a fight would not happen. I do think there's some merit to the notion that Floyd didn't want to fight Manny when Manny was still considered in his prime and great because it would legitimately threaten his undefeated record. Those are also the reasons I don't believe a fight will ever happen. Both guys have been chicken s about actually making the fight happen.

That said, at this point in each guy's respective career, it'd be hard to pick against Floyd. Manny has gotten old and has shown vulnerability because at times he's so aggressive and leaves himself open to take hard crosses and uppercuts that could lead to KOs. He's not the same fighter he was even 3 years ago. Whether you question Floyd's opponents or not, he hasn't really been challenged. And certainly his head hasn't taken the type of damage Manny has in recent fights. Floyd would again play his defensive game and Manny wouldn't get many if any good hits square on. A decision would surely favor Floyd.

This fight should have happened 5-7 years ago. Now, it's much less appealing. Floyd is the bigger draw and deserves the bigger purse. I wonder if he'd be willing to a decision based split of the purse, something like if he wins he takes 75-25, but if Manny wins it's a 50-50 split. Do they do that? Can they do that? If both fighters were really willing to make it happen, couldn't that help be an incentive to move negotiations along? I'm not sure.

Yeah you're a flip alright... and full of too. You didn't make not one decent point on here... other than you're bias. When Pacman was a PPV star Arum was smart enough to secure a 50/50 split for the fighters. Contracts were issued and at the last minute Shane Mosely told Floyd he should have Pacman tested. Why would Mosely think this? Because he was caught using PED's, and he lost to a guy that he felt should not have brought up that much power. There is no way Bob Arum lets his fighter walk away from a 50/50 split of a possible 300 million PPV fight. Manny implicated himself by refusing that fight. Three years later after Floyd calls him personally and offers him 40 million just to sign the contract. Manny gets off the phone. Floyd has tried to get this bum in the ring but Manny has refused to sign a contract.

You guys are stupid to think that either one of these guys are afraid of each other. It all boils down to money... that's it. Both of these fighters truly believe they can beat each other. The fight would go down as the biggest fight in history... still. But it will never happen until Manny forces Arum to secure the fight. Yes, they can agree to a 75 to winner, 25 to loser deal, but Arum ain't that stupid. He knows his boy never had the goods to beat Floyd. Listen to what Paulie has to say on this issue.

[Buddy Mignon]

This is a good analysis. The only problem I see from Floyd's perspective is that he lacks the power to really do much damage to Manny. Pacquiao could pretty much swing for the fences and knowing Floyd he wouldn't want to get in the way of an errant punch, so Mayweather would be dodging most of the fight. I'm not sure a decision favors Floyd, as Manny would likely throw 3x as many punches and most of them with power and conviction. Obviously Manny would miss a great deal more than he's used to, but he also wouldn't have to worry about being knocked out or likely even being fazed by anything Floyd is going to throw. Floyd would be tossing out that pinpoint jab, but it would come down to how many of those power punches from Manny lands in a 12 round decision.

I also think one of the reasons Manny has been opening himself up is to prove he still has power in his hands. He certainly showed that in his last fight, even if a couple of those knockdowns were slips, most of them came at the end of a flurry or power punch. I doubt Manny would go in headhunting against Floyd (out of both respect and wanting to win the fight more than get a KO) and would likely choose to use short bursts when he finds an open spot.

People in here claiming to be "real" boxing fans and commenting on exactly how the fight would go with 100% conviction that either side would win is ing ludicrous. Styles make fights. Manny is FAR more dangerous and unpredictable than anyone Floyd has fought in recent memory, even at his present age. I still think it would be a great fight, but 5 years ago it would have absolutely been one of the most spectacled, anticipated fights since Ali retired. It was THE superfight people wanted to see from all walks of life, not just fans of pugilism. Even now, it would definitely be a cultural event, just not the pinnacle of entertainment that it would have been half a decade prior.

Damn you are lame... Manny just got knocked out cold. Get the out of here.

[Cry Havoc]

Yeah you're a flip alright... and full of too. You didn't make not one decent point on here... other than you're bias. When Pacman was a PPV star Arum was smart enough to secure a 50/50 split for the fighters. Contracts were issued and at the last minute Shane Mosely told Floyd he should have Pacman tested. Why would Mosely think this? Because he was caught using PED's, and he lost to a guy that he felt should not have brought up that much power. There is no way Bob Arum lets his fighter walk away from a 50/50 split of a possible 300 million PPV fight. Manny implicated himself by refusing that fight. Three years later after Floyd calls him personally and offers him 40 million just to sign the contract. Manny gets off the phone. Floyd has tried to get this bum in the ring but Manny has refused to sign a contract.

You guys are stupid to think that either one of these guys are afraid of each other. It all boils down to money... that's it. Both of these fighters truly believe they can beat each other. The fight would go down as the biggest fight in history... still. But it will never happen until Manny forces Arum to secure the fight. Yes, they can agree to a 75 to winner, 25 to loser deal, but Arum ain't that stupid. He knows his boy never had the goods to beat Floyd. Listen to what Paulie has to say on this issue.

[james evans]

You guys are stupid to think that either one of these guys are afraid of each other. It all boils down to money... that's it. Both of these fighters truly believe they can beat each other. The fight would go down as the biggest fight in history... still. But it will never happen until Manny forces Arum to secure the fight. Yes, they can agree to a 75 to winner, 25 to loser deal, but Arum ain't that stupid. He knows his boy never had the goods to beat Floyd. Listen to what Paulie has to say on this issue.

history of what? internet forums? cuz u can't be talking about boxing history. no way. In terms of hype, it's overhyped. Here you have a guy in Pac who has been ko'd, lost to bradley(i thought he beat bradley, it was a bad decision) and fought some bum ass fighers in rios and the feather fisted punching bag algeri and floyd hasnt fought much better himself the last 4 but they are better than what pac has fought. This fight means very little with both guys at the end of their career. It will be big for ppv and hype, but meaning DLH vs Trinidad was bigger. 2 undefeated latino welterweights with power unifying the le. Ali vs Fraizer I was bigger. In terms of hype, Leonard vs Hager was probably bigger than this, but in 87, internet wasn't the standard in every household. No, there are bigger fights in boxing history, but hype-wise, this is up there. I personally feel this fight is gonna be a shutout in favor of floyd. a boring shutout that Roch will threaten to throw in the towel by the 9th round due to Pac taking a beating.

[james evans]

Ok... now if you take the laziest fighter on that list... he knocked Tyson out. I don't care what excuses you want to make for Tyson.

no he beat tyson. But like bowe vs holyfield the first time, not many people would have beat Douglass that night. He was a man possessed with nothing to lose. just like Hagler the against Hearns. He just wasn't gonna lose that night.

[james evans]

You realize Ferguson completely beat down Mercer in 12 in Mercer's prime and Tyson stopped Ferguson in the 6th, right? It's not like these guys fought decades apart.

styles make fights. Holyfield beat foreman, Moorer beat holyfield, Foreman beat moorer. .

duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns, Hearns beat duran.
Tyson beat tucker, tucker made douglass quit, douglass beat tyson

styles make fights

[Cry Havoc]

styles make fights. Holyfield beat foreman, Moorer beat holyfield, Foreman beat moorer. .

duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns, Hearns beat duran.
Tyson beat tucker, tucker made douglass quit, douglass beat tyson

styles make fights

Obviously, but Tyson destroyed the guy who convincingly beat Mercer. It's not like they were both close fights. One was a UD, the other was a ref stoppage. You can't sweep away Tyson's ridiculous dominance under the rug of "well he didn't fight anyone who would give him problems." Dude was a wrecking ball.

[UZER]

Manny said money doesn't matter. What will mayweather come up with now?

[spurraider21]

he didn't "knock out" foreman

Ali did get the ko win

oh

[Franklin]

cloth, stone and scissors, imho.

[JamStone]

Yeah you're a flip alright... and full of too. You didn't make not one decent point on here... other than you're bias. When Pacman was a PPV star Arum was smart enough to secure a 50/50 split for the fighters. Contracts were issued and at the last minute Shane Mosely told Floyd he should have Pacman tested. Why would Mosely think this? Because he was caught using PED's, and he lost to a guy that he felt should not have brought up that much power. There is no way Bob Arum lets his fighter walk away from a 50/50 split of a possible 300 million PPV fight. Manny implicated himself by refusing that fight. Three years later after Floyd calls him personally and offers him 40 million just to sign the contract. Manny gets off the phone. Floyd has tried to get this bum in the ring but Manny has refused to sign a contract.

Let's get a few things straight.

1. Unsubstantiated rumor: Manny Pacquiao was caught using PEDs.

Do ented fact: Manny Pacquiao has never tested positive for steroids or PEDs.


2. Unsubstantiated rumor: Mosley told Floyd to have Pacquiao tested because Mosley knew Pacquiao was using.

Do ented fact: Mosley refuted those claims publicly.

"There has been some media coverage recently, stating that I accused Manny Pacquiao of steroid use on Twitter. This is not true. I personally respond to my followers on Twitter, and there was an article sent to me which I Re-tweeted. I did not write the article and did not say that I agree with it. I have defended Manny Pacquiao publicly regarding these type of allegations, stating that they have never been proven true," Mosley said.

"In our post-fight press conference I told the world that Manny won because he was the better man that night. Manny and I have a mutual respect for one another as true warriors and gentlemen. We both strive to be the best we can be at boxing, as family men, and as humanitarians."

http://www.boxingscene.com/shane-mos...teroids--39504


3. Unsubstantiated rumor: Manny did not agree to the terms of Floyd's drug testing because he was using.

The other side to that rumor: Manny agreed to the testing. He did not agree to all of the stipulations of the testing, including allowing his blood to be drawn up to the day of the fight, and which agency would do the tests.

Do ented fact: Manny filed a defamation lawsuit against Floyd and his team, and after the suit was settled out of court, Mayweather publicly retracted his steroid accusations.

"Floyd Mayweather Jr., Floyd Mayweather Sr., Roger Mayweather and Mayweather Promotions wish to make it clear that they never intended to claim that Manny Pacquiao has used or is using any performance-enhancing drugs nor are they aware of any evidence that Manny Pacquiao has used performance-enhancing drugs. Manny Pacquiao is a great champion and no one should construe any of our prior remarks as claiming that Manny Pacquiao has used performance-enhancing drugs.”

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...-mess-part-one

Additional rumors to to this part of the story: There is no substantiated or corroborated stories to this, but in boxing inner circles, the story is that sometime after Manny filed the defamation lawsuit against Floyd, it was found out that Floyd had tested positive for banned substances three separate times but was not given a follow up test by the USADA. When the do ents of these tests were requested, Tygert and the USADA refused to hand them over. Shortly thereafter, the defamation suit was settled and Mayweather made the retraction.


You don't hear much about this because Manny doesn't talk in the media the way Floyd does. And listen, that's not to say either Manny or Floyd have always been clean. I'm not saying that. I remember the Ben Johnson and Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong and Barry and A-Rod circuses of denials. You just never know with any of these world class athletes. But let's clear up what is rumor and what is fact, at least on the record. You can believe what you want to believe. But don't suggest or imply that some rumors are fact when they are undo ented and unsubstantiated.

[Horse]

So sad, my heart still remembers the days of great circus and promotions around fights but in the end they were real, Tyson fought Hollyfield in the second one there was a flying ear now we dont have a ing , Hollyfield and Bowe or Lewis happened there was no ducking or lame excuses

Was much better in those days, although chicken-bowe did duck Lewis.

[Drachen]

http://m.espn.go.com/extra/boxing/st...sportscenterFB

[Thebesteva]

Manny said money doesn't matter. What will mayweather come up with now?

Thing is, as much as I criticize him, stylistically Mayweather should win. I actually think Khan is a worst match up for him. However, the fact that May has ducked Manny in such epic fashion has made many including myself despise him.

If he only fought him in 2009 none of this would have happened. Now, even if he wins, it will be a Lewis V Tyson type thing where it was too late

[RsxPiimp]

Funny thing though, Mayweather scheduled the fight May 05 with Canelo-Cotto slated for the same week. If I'm not mistaken, Roach will be training Cotto which means the Pac-Mayweather fight must be moved.

[BoricuaCJA]

Funny thing though, Mayweather scheduled the fight May 05 with Canelo-Cotto slated for the same week. If I'm not mistaken, Roach will be training Cotto which means the Pac-Mayweather fight must be moved.

He did that in purpose. The Cotto Canelo fight is scheduled for May2 and Floyd said lets do it that day.

[dbreiden83080]

Manny should fight him for whatever honestly. It's a legacy fight and when it's over if Floyd loses it all that will matter is those ting on his legacy.. Hagler made more money than Ray did in their fight and people still won't let Hagler live that one down..

[Buddy Mignon]

He did that in purpose. The Cotto Canelo fight is scheduled for May2 and Floyd said lets do it that day.

No, you got. Everyone knows that Floyd bullied the mexicans for their holidays to make them his fight night. This is the only reason why he's so kind to them by allowing them to receive an ass whooping on that day. People always ask why does Floyd fight mexicans... this is why.

[Buddy Mignon]

Manny should fight him for whatever honestly. It's a legacy fight and when it's over if Floyd loses it all that will matter is those ting on his legacy.. Hagler made more money than Ray did in their fight and people still won't let Hagler live that one down..

Yo... I met Junior this past weekend. Real cool cat.

[RsxPiimp]

He did that in purpose. The Cotto Canelo fight is scheduled for May2 and Floyd said lets do it that day.

Aww man that sucks. Im still hopeful this one happens, but it's not promising at this point.

[Buddy Mignon]

Cotto vs Ginger will not be happening on Cinco De Mayo. Floyd will announce his opponent, which will be Khan, and he'll have that date.

[UZER]

Thing is, as much as I criticize him, stylistically Mayweather should win. I actually think Khan is a worst match up for him. However, the fact that May has ducked Manny in such epic fashion has made many including myself despise him.

If he only fought him in 2009 none of this would have happened. Now, even if he wins, it will be a Lewis V Tyson type thing where it was too late

I'm in the same boat. I've said from the beginning, 5 years ago, May would win. I respect the outta him and his skills. He ain't no joke, but that doesn't mean I don't wanna see him lose.

[james evans]

Obviously, but Tyson destroyed the guy who convincingly beat Mercer. It's not like they were both close fights. One was a UD, the other was a ref stoppage. You can't sweep away Tyson's ridiculous dominance under the rug of "well he didn't fight anyone who would give him problems." Dude was a wrecking ball.

I never said tyson didn't fight anyone, but you can't use the example of "fighter A beats figter B, fighter B beats figther C so fighter A must be able to beat fighter C". That's never always true. I try to be a voice of reason. NO bias whatsoever. I criticize tyson, his fans get upset. I praise tyson, his critics get upset. I criticize floyd, his fans call me a hater. I criticize manny his fans call me a hater. I praise either of them and their critics call me a rider.