Kawhi-Lights

[dabom]

I bet you got an ivy league degree too. Lmao

[FkLA]

Damn, I don't think I've ever seen Chinook sound so clueless. He's usually a solid poster.

-Kawhi post-ups are mostly non-mismatches? He can bully most SFs in the post. Those that he can't bully are usually too slow to keep up with him. Bron is the only guys that holds the combination of speed and power that Kawhi does.
-The Spurs ran plays to free up Rique for shots? Probably because Rique was never able to effortlessly get his midrange shots off. I'm sure if he ever was Pop would've had no problem letting him. Just another reason why even prime Rique was never a true superstar.
-The Spurs are in danger of going away from their offense to iso Kawhi? lol no obviously it'll be a mix, the system is too good to only rely on isos.

Thank god Pop recognizes just how dominant Kawhi can be on post-ups.

[apalisoc_9]

Damn, I don't think I've ever seen Chinook sound so clueless. He's usually a solid poster.

-Kawhi post-ups are mostly non-mismatches? He can bully most SFs in the post. Those that he can't bully are usually too slow to keep up with him. Bron is the only guys that holds the combination of speed and power that Kawhi does.
-The Spurs ran plays to free up Rique for shots? Probably because Rique was never able to effortlessly get his midrange shots off. I'm sure if he ever was Pop would've had no problem letting him. Just another reason why even prime Rique was never a true superstar.
-The Spurs are going away from their offense to iso Kawhi? lol no obviously it'll be a mix, the system is too good to only rely on isos.

Thank god Pop recognizes just how dominant Kawhi can be on post-ups.

He knows what he's talking about, but he's so confused on why exactly the offense is run the way it is. I mean it's like he completely forget the last two months of the season last year. Kawhi Posting up and being the focal point of the offense still generated a ton of open looks for the spurs. Kawhi played of the system and the system played of Kawhi..it was perfect.

I already mentioned that I am not a big fan of post ups in the high post myself, but repe ive experience is needed to get those feel for situation in the playoffs were the offense xan go stale. He's completely ignoring this long term factor and instead focusing on a singular game basis.

[tholdren]

Damn, I don't think I've ever seen Chinook sound so clueless. He's usually a solid poster.

-Kawhi post-ups are mostly non-mismatches? He can bully most SFs in the post. Those that he can't bully are usually too slow to keep up with him. Bron is the only guys that holds the combination of speed and power that Kawhi does.
-The Spurs ran plays to free up Rique for shots? Probably because Rique was never able to effortlessly get his midrange shots off. I'm sure if he ever was Pop would've had no problem letting him. Just another reason why even prime Rique was never a true superstar.
-The Spurs are in danger of going away from their offense to iso Kawhi? lol no obviously it'll be a mix, the system is too good to only rely on isos.

Thank god Pop recognizes just how dominant Kawhi can be on post-ups.

I agree. But Chinook is so set on using stats incorrectly to try and prove something. He's been in mode lately

[Chinook]

Because they're transitioning to to a team that relies on both Star power and Ball movement. You're going to have a healthy does of ISO relying on Star Production. What kind of offense are you going to run? The talent is changing in this team. It's starting to move towards to kawhi and now LMA. You build your offense around your best players. You're completely ignoring the fact that spurs used to run their offense based on a healthy does of Parker and Ginobili. That's rarely going to happen. They're base offense is now is going to start different.

As Harlem has said, the idea of running an offense through a small-forward is incredibly dubious. They don't fit a fulcrum dynamic well. Lebron is pretty much the only one who's been able to do it recently, and he's a freak of nature. Some like Melo, KD and George had the talent but couldn't get out of their own ways. And offense of wings in the post is clunky and antiquated, and if Kawhi weren't a really good post player, I'd want it cut out almost entirely. But he is a good post player, and he's elite when he has good shot-selection there. So if a Kawhi post-up is a great shot, it makes sense for the Spurs' offense to make that shot for him. There are plenty of ways to give Kawhi catches eight feel from the basket after a seal rather than 16-20 feet from the basket against a set defense.

He took 1 non-open contested Shots. That was a bad shot. Every darn Player that you're going to rely on to Put up Star numbers is going to have 2 or 3 bad shots a game. It's like you completely forgot how star players play. Sorry, You're never going to have a perfect player. Every System is going to have it's pros and cons..Relying on a 2014 spurs system might get you good shots, but it's isn't a consistently proven as relying on Star Production. I don't see why this team can't rely on both...relying on star Production will generate a couple of bad shots a game.

Well, I think you have a flat view on what star production looks like. Many players want and covet systems that give them good looks. The Heat ran plenty of sets that put Lebron in good position to score on his man. Kerr's system turned Steph into an MVP. The idea shouldn't be to make a compromise between Kawhi's (but mainly LMA's) individual offensive talent and team needs. It should be to make a synergistic model where the ball is in Kawhi's hands with options on how to attack the defense. Parker was so integrated into the Spurs' system that I'm not sure he can survive being unplugged from it. Kawhi needs to have that kind of symbiosis if he's going to be the next offensive star for the team.

I never said it was his best shot. We're arguing that it should be added to the game because the team needs a healthy dose of offensive strategies. I realize it's not as beautiful as it looks, but believe it or not the game slows down in the Post-Season and sometimes if a piece in the offense isn't working the offense deteriorates and you'd need a slow one on one post play. Tim Duncan said the same in the LA series about Kawhi Post ups.. The team knows there will be situations where it's going to go dry and you need someone to bail you out. You're not going to learn by not taking those shots. Pop calls them what? 2 or 3 times a game? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Two to three a game is fine, I agree. And yes, I agree on the value of knowing how to do it.

Again your completely trying to paint all Kawhi shots as ISO shots.

I'm absolutely not. If I thought that, I wouldn't advocate him being a big part of the offense at all. The idea is to refine his game, to have him make good decisions with the ball. Like if Kawhi is 15 feet from the basket backing down his man, and he has Tim flashing in the paint or Danny open behind the arc, he has to learn that those shots are almost certainly better that whatever he's going to do with the ball. It's a process. I'm not going to fault a kid for trying new things. But I'm also not going to laud him for a 7-16 performance. I wouldn't laud LMA for it either. If you get 16 shots and use 23 possessions, you better get 20 points out of it.

As far as Green goes, I don't think he's getting, 15 ppg. It would even be high for him to get 13. But he did average 14.7 pp36 last season and averages 14.1 pp36 for his career. If he gets the playing time he deserves, he has a chance. And so long as he's not forcing things, Danny is about as efficient as it gets. You want him to get his touches as much as anybody, because they are great for the offense, especially for Leonard. The bigger threat Danny is, the less likely Kawhi is the consistently draw the best wing defender.

[apalisoc_9]

As Harlem has said, the idea of running an offense through a small-forward is incredibly dubious. They don't fit a fulcrum dynamic well. Lebron is pretty much the only one who's been able to do it recently, and he's a freak of nature. Some like Melo, KD and George had the talent but couldn't get out of their own ways. And offense of wings in the post is clunky and antiquated, and if Kawhi weren't a really good post player, I'd want it cut out almost entirely. But he is a good post player, and he's elite when he has good shot-selection there. So if a Kawhi post-up is a great shot, it makes sense for the Spurs' offense to make that shot for him. There are plenty of ways to give Kawhi catches eight feel from the basket after a seal rather than 16-20 feet from the basket against a set defense.

These teams run their SF oriented offense with Point Forward ball handling. Majority of these players play the point forward position, they're basically running a Star system. When Lebron and Geroge played off the ball their their team dominated, but it's hard to consistently dominate that way when your PG's are terrible ball handlers. Thankfully Parker is one of the better handlers in the league provided he's not trying to play 2013 Parker. Kawhi doesn't need to change the system to fit his game. We already know he's willing to play off the ball. The spurs are trying to do something different here..They want to see if they can consistently recreate a dominant offense that Miami and to a lesser extent Indiana played with Geroge and Lebron playing off ball situations. They want the the perfect balance here.

Kawhi and the Spurs hasn't shown any signs of relying on an Point forward reliant offense. Sure, Leonard does run the PnP and PnR every now and then but that's just a because he's going to have the ball a good amount of time. It doesn't mean he's going to play the way Geroge and Lebron does. The spurs aren't trying to run the same offense here.

Well, I think you have a flat view on what star production looks like. Many players want and covet systems that give them good looks. The Heat ran plenty of sets that put Lebron in good position to score on his man. Kerr's system turned Steph into an MVP. The idea shouldn't be to make a compromise between Kawhi's (but mainly LMA's) individual offensive talent and team needs. It should be to make a synergistic model where the ball is in Kawhi's hands with options on how to attack the defense. Parker was so integrated into the Spurs' system that I'm not sure he can survive being unplugged from it. Kawhi needs to have that kind of symbiosis if he's going to be the next offensive star for the team.

I 100% agree on this..But his has nothing to do with your "bogus" remarks of how "disgusting" his shots were. I already addressed why those shots happen.

I'm absolutely not. If I thought that, I wouldn't advocate him being a big part of the offense at all. The idea is to refine his game, to have him make good decisions with the ball. Like if Kawhi is 15 feet from the basket backing down his man, and he has Tim flashing in the paint or Danny open behind the arc, he has to learn that those shots are almost certainly better that whatever he's going to do with the ball. It's a process. I'm not going to fault a kid for trying new things. But I'm also not going to laud him for a 7-16 performance. I wouldn't laud LMA for it either. You get 16 shots and use 23 possessions, you better get 20 points out of it.

I agree with this 100%. Again, I made that post because you made a terrible remark about kawhi overall shot selection. I've already said that it happens because he has the ball on his hands and because he's trying to gain game time experience. He's also going to take shots from the high post just to diversify his selection. The key is for him to use that sparringly, only to a point where the defense is honest and find the points in 10-16 range.

We're trying to argue against your idea that the way leoanrd plays offense will kill the other side of team offense. That's far from the truth..We already have a good sample size for this late in the season last year. You consistently trying to paint a Leoanrd led offense as equal to an offense that's completely reliant on "star" points..when that's so far from the truth.

[dabom]

Chinook

POP: "We're going to put Leonard in the post more and more, so he's got to learn what his go-to moves are, what he feels comfortable with and the type of defenders that are going to come after him. Just like they came after Timmy early in his career, they'll go after Kawhi. They're not going to let him go one-on-one down there. He's got to figure out how to adjust, how to take advantage of that, and basically learn how to be a quarterback. That's what he's doing," said Popovich.Popovich anticipates that Leonard will see a lot of double teams in the post which will force him to have to make quick decisions and find the open man. Leonard has not played with the ball in his hands very much so far in his four year career but Popovich wants that to happen more as he continues to become "the guy" for the Spurs.



Kawhi is going to post more knowing he is going to get doubled almost every single time.

He is going to shoot more jumpers.

He is going to play more point-forward position.

Kawhi is going to ISO more this year. People need to understand this is a long time coming.

[dabom]

Almost missed Chip in the background.

[dabom]

Look at the le of the video. Emphasis on "MORE".

[Seventyniner]

Unassisted shots aren't that bad when you have a guy who can hit those jumpers

False. The whole reason I posted that image, and the whole reason for the article that contained it, is that unassisted shots ARE that bad. An unassisted layup has the same FG% as an assisted jumper from the free throw line.

I understand that no team will ever eliminate unassisted shots from their arsenal, but it needs to be minimized. There is a huge difference between Kobe (or Kawhi) taking a contested turnaround jumper and a well executed pick-and-pop, even from the same spot on the floor.

[daslicer]

Noticed Danny Green in the background of the Kawhi post up practice clip talking about Lamar Odom.

[Chinook]

These teams run their SF oriented offense with Point Forward ball handling. Majority of these players play the point forward position, they're basically running a Star system. When Lebron and Geroge played off the ball their their team dominated, but it's hard to consistently dominate that way when your PG's are terrible ball handlers. Thankfully Parker is one of the better handlers in the league provided he's not trying to play 2013 Parker. Kawhi doesn't need to change the system to fit his game. We already know he's willing to play off the ball. The spurs are trying to do something different here..They want to see if they can consistently recreate a dominant offense that Miami and to a lesser extent Indiana played with Geroge and Lebron playing off ball situations. They want the the perfect balance here.

Ray Allen is probably the only wing who could be the best threat on his team but still play off the ball. Maybe Korver, but I wouldn't consider him a paradigm. It's not easy at all to get a wing to be your best scorer without him essentially becoming either your PG or PF. And what Kawhi is doing now is certainly not merely thriving off the ball. He's getting the ball and shooting pull-ups, fadeaways and leaners. Those aren't good for an offense long-term. That's why it's good that the Spurs are going to be LMA-centric for the next couple years. Kawhi will get time to develop he needs.

I 100% agree on this..But his has nothing to do with your "bogus" remarks of how "disgusting" his shots were. I already addressed why those shots happen.

Those shots are disgusting. By no means did the Spurs need him to take those. You may assume he's going to have the carry the Spurs, but he probably won't even have to break 19ppg for the team to be an elite offense. They need him to be good, but they're not going to need him to carry them.

I agree with this 100%. Again, I made that post because you made a terrible remark about kawhi overall shot selection. I've already said that it happens because he has the ball on his hands and because he's trying to gain game time experience.

That doesn't negate the fact that those shots are bad and that they shouldn't be in the offense. He might need reps to develop better shot-selection, but until that's developed, it's bad and can be noted as such. A beginning fiddler is going to struggle through a lot of bad attempts to learn to play Firedance. And though those attempts are necessary for the fiddler to figure out how to play the song correctly, they're still bad and no one will confuse them for good playthroughs. Kawhi shot-selection is bad until it gets better. You agree with that:

The key is for him to use that sparringly, only to a point where the defense is honest and find the points in 10-16 range.

If he carries this same shot-selection quality the rest of his career, he won't be an efficient offensive player. We're all hoping and assuming it's going to improve, so why are you trying to give me flack for saying so?

That's far from the truth..We already have a good sample size for this late in the season last year.

Kawhi went supernova (1.07 points per possession) for like two months. While I hope as much as anyone that that is the way Kawhi's just going to be from now on, it takes that type of run to justify that shot selection. Leonard whipping out .87ppp games isn't going to cut it. Chuckers like DeRozan (.95ppp for his career) and Gay (.93 ppg) do better than that. If Kawhi just splits the difference between his high and his most recent and ends up around .97ppp (comparable to SAC Gay), it's really nothing to get excited about. And before you act like Kawhi's post-All Star Break production last year was well beyond Gay's ability, Rudy was at 1.02ppg during that same span despite playing on a horrible team by that time with no ability to space the floor to give him room.

So we have to see where Leonard goes with it. So long as he and LMA work together and with the rest of the offense, it should work out. But right now, Kawhi's offense isn't much different than that of other jump-shooting wings. It should get better with time. It has to.

[apalisoc_9]

Ray Allen is probably the only wing who could be the best threat on his team but still play off the ball. Maybe Korver, but I wouldn't consider him a paradigm. It's not easy at all to get a wing to be your best scorer without him essentially becoming either your PG or PF. And what Kawhi is doing now is certainly not merely thriving off the ball. He's getting the ball and shooting pull-ups, fadeaways and leaners. Those aren't good for an offense long-term. That's why it's good that the Spurs are going to be LMA-centric for the next couple years. Kawhi will get time to develop he needs.

A LMA centric offense is just that..Pull-ups, fadewayas, leaners and post ups. Kawhi basically plays the same way but has the added transition game to supplement his offense and is a much better shooter to boot. You're not doing yourself any favor in this argument against Pull-ups, fadewayas and leaners if your Alternative takes most of his shots the same way. Ray Allen is a different wing player, he's utilized differently. He's not a good comparison to how a Kawhi off the ball player would look like. A good comparison sample is when Lebron-PG-Durant plays the off ball situation. They're pretty dominant as off ball player relying on quick decisions and attacks.

The difference being is that Kawhi is playing for a team that can consistently play that way.

I have a huge sample size to prove my point, You don't...

Those shots are disgusting. By no means did the Spurs need him to take those. You may assume he's going to have the carry the Spurs, but he probably won't even have to break 19ppg for the team to be an elite offense. They need him to be good, but they're not going to need him to carry them.

You have consistently dodged my answer to this. He's going to be shooting a healthy amount of shots. He's going to end up taking a few bad shots. Again your making it look like majority of his bad shots are terrible shots when in reality in the video you quoted he took one contested shot and in the Hawks pre-season game he took 1 terrible contested shots. There isn't a perfect team or an offensive system out there. There isn't a perfect game out there either. You're going to have to pick your poison in many situations. Do you let him Improve as a player ( the spurs need him to be an offensive threat) or do you not? Sure, you might get one widen open look but are the spurs going to be consistently dominant with a Kawhi leonard with lesser offensive role? No...Are the spurs going to dominante by relying on a new guy that basically takes the same kind of shots but worse %.. no...Do this team have enough slashers to replicate 2014? Not even close.

I have a bigger sample size on how this team would play if they tried replicating 2014. They're going to be atrocious...

That doesn't negate the fact that those shots are bad and that they shouldn't be in the offense. He might need reps to develop better shot-selection, but until that's developed, it's bad and can be noted as such. A beginning fiddler is going to struggle through a lot of bad attempts to learn to play Firedance. And though those attempts are necessary for the fiddler to figure out how to play the song correctly, they're still bad and no one will confuse them for good playthroughs. Kawhi shot-selection is bad until it gets better. You agree with that:

No, I don't agree with that. Kawhi took some bad shots, very few of them..That's going to happen with how they're playing them. Every darn player who will have the ball on his hands will make the same mistake once or twice a game. You're obsessed with Perfection and have a fairly unrealistic expectation of offensive flow and ball movment...The only thing I agree with is him taking more 10-16 possessions, but that doesn't mean he should abondon his other games...This goes back to how often he takes bad shots in a game, not a lot tbh.

If he carries this same shot-selection quality the rest of his career, he won't be an efficient offensive player. We're all hoping and assuming it's going to improve, so why are you trying to give me flack for saying so?

Because you're using a Terribele Pre-season Sample size to make your argument when a bigger more reliable sample size is available. Don't compare kawhi pre Post all-star or pre 2014 or Pre-season to what kawhi should be as a player because none of these samples are any indication of how the spurs will play moving forward nor is it any indication of Kawhi's shot selection. Go make me a Terrible Shot Selection video of Kawhi taking 2 or 3 bad shots a game Post-allstar break....you won't be able to because you can't.

Kawhi went supernova (1.07 points per possession) for like two months. While I hope as much as anyone that that is the way Kawhi's just going to be from now on, it takes that type of run to justify that shot selection

.

This answers your question. It took a great run for Kawhi to convince the office he's good enough as a player. Another Poor attempt at kawhi's shot selection...Every player that's going to have that kind of role with have 1 or two bad shots a game. Again, show me all these terrible selection you speak off in that span. You're just making up right now.

So we have to see where Leonard goes with it. So long as he and LMA work together and with the rest of the offense, it should work out. But right now, Kawhi's offense isn't much different than that of other jump-shooting wings.

It will take for Aldridge to adjust. He was the one of the highest used offensive player in the league last year and is quite a diva and overly sensitive with touches as evident with his previous interview after acquisition.

[Chinook]

A LMA centric offense is just that..Pull-ups, fadewayas, leaners and post ups. Kawhi basically plays the same way but has the added transition game to supplement his offense and is a much better shooter to boot. You're not doing yourself any favor in this argument against Pull-ups, fadewayas and leaners if your Alternative takes most of his shots the same way.

Posting up bigs is a lot better for an offense than posting up guards. It's easier to space the floor with three smalls and a big than it is with two and two. It's also much better in transition defense to have three smalls along the perimeter. It's better for offensive rebounding, as it probably takes the defending big out of rebounding position. In a world where a 6-11 guy big and a 6-7 small have the same offensive game and efficiency, I'll take the big anytime.

He's not a good comparison to how a Kawhi off the ball player would look like. A good comparison sample is when Lebron-PG-Durant plays the off ball situation.

None of those players have the same physical profile of Leonard. They're all significantly bigger. The latter two are post players (with PG playing PF and having a mismatch every time he's on the court due to his position change), while the former is, or was if he can't get back to form, the best shooter this side of Steph Curry. To say you want/expect Kawhi to have a game similar to KD's is absurd and insulting to Durant (not that I care about his feelings mind you). And even with all that, Durant has been in a terribly structured offense his whole career. Do you really want the Spurs to play anything close to Scott Brook's offense?

I have a huge sample size to prove my point, You don't...

Two months against four years is hardly an elite sample size.

No, I don't agree with that. Kawhi took some bad shots, very few of them..

First, we're talking about the highlight video of his Hawks performance. So even in your mind, only five of his makes were good shots. Who knows how many of his 10 misses were bad?

You're obsessed with Perfection and have a fairly unrealistic expectation of offensive flow and ball movment...

No, I have a realistic expectation of Leonard. You're trying to take his best stretch ever and project it as his norm. Danny was a 15pp36 scorer in that same span with a ppp of 1.16, which is just legendary, but you have no problem admitting that is unsustainable. Again, if that Kawhi is the norm, I have no problem with the team handing him the keys. But he's not going to be that good on average. And when you look at his numbers with that in mind, you see that he's not a significant offensive upgrade to other midrange wings if he keeps his game this way.

Because you're using a Terribele Pre-season Sample size to make your argument when a bigger more reliable sample size is available.

This thread is specifically about the Hawks game. I'm harping on it because people are trying to assert that was a good offensive game for Kawhi. It wasn't. That better not even be an average game for him. He needs to be a lot better than he was last game. Has he been better in the past? Yes. Will he be better in the future? God, I hope so. But how much better is the first question and what will it take for him to get there is the second.

Go make me a Terrible Shot Selection video of Kawhi taking 2 or 3 bad shots a game Post-allstar break....you won't be able to because you can't.

You're right. I have no video-editing software nor access to all of his post-All Star games. And I certainly don't have the desire to sift through every game to look at bad Kawhi shots. Could probably dig up a couple in every highlight vid, though.

It will take for Aldridge to adjust. He was the one of the highest used offensive player in the league last year and is quite a diva and overly sensitive with touches as evident with his previous interview after acquisition.

Yeah, so he's going to be given a chance to jack up just as many shots as Kawhi until he figures it out, and then it's going to be his offense. Pop's been giving them both a chance to spread their wings. I don't think he's going to let Kawhi chuck while keeping LMA on training wheels.

[dabom]

Kawhi chuck. Lmao. The smear campaign by Chinook. Kawhi averages 60%TS.

[apalisoc_9]

Posting up bigs is a lot better for an offense than posting up guards. It's easier to space the floor with three smalls and a big than it is with two and two. It's also much better in transition defense to have three smalls along the perimeter. It's better for offensive rebounding, as it probably takes the defending big out of rebounding position. In a world where a 6-11 guy big and a 6-7 small have the same offensive game and efficiency, I'll take the big anytime.

Your terrible mistake is simplifying kawhi's game to a post up player. They also don't have the same efficiency at the range where they take most of their post up shots. Kawhi is seating at 48% and Aldridge is seating at 38% at those fadaways and leaners that you are so disgusted with.. Where do you get your stats that they're just as efficient? They hardly run Kawhi post ISO. Majority of his shots are still out of Motion and and quick decisions out of motion.

None of those players have the same physical profile of Leonard. They're all significantly bigger. The latter two are post players (with PG playing PF and having a mismatch every time he's on the court due to his position change), while the former is, or was if he can't get back to form, the best shooter this side of Steph Curry. To say you want/expect Kawhi to have a game similar to KD's is absurd and insulting to Durant (not that I care about his feelings mind you). And even with all that, Durant has been in a terribly structured offense his whole career. Do you really want the Spurs to play anything close to Scott Brook's offense?

Where did I say the spurs should play a similar system? I've mentioned that Kawhi playing in a spurs uniform means he will get better shots at motion and from off ball movements. You're going to utilize him in a smiliar sense that it's off ball, but Kawhi doesn't need to do this the same way KD and the others do. Kawhi has a luxury of a better team. Kawhi can be utilized in a somewhat similar manner but no way does that mean they will be taking the same shots.

Two months against four years is hardly an elite sample size.

Except relying on that 4 years is bogus because he wasn't a focal point of the offense. The only reliable sample would be post all-star break Kawhi and this pre-season kawhi. I'm relying on the former whereas it looks like you're relying on the latter. You're trying to project his game using his previous role. I'm projecting his game based on the games he played as the focal point of the offense.

First, we're talking about the highlight video of his Hawks performance. So even in your mind, only five of his makes were good shots. Who knows how many of his 10 misses were bad?

Where the did i say this? I said he took one contested shot. You're making up. so the only good shots are the shots he make? you're being ridiculous now.

No, I have a realistic expectation of Leonard. You're trying to take his best stretch ever and project it as his norm. Danny was a 15pp36 scorer in that same span with a ppp of 1.16, which is just legendary, but you have no problem admitting that is unsustainable. Again, if that Kawhi is the norm, I have no problem with the team handing him the keys. But he's not going to be that good on average. And when you look at his numbers with that in mind, you see that he's not a significant offensive upgrade to other midrange wings if he keeps his game this way.

Now I have to go back again to my previous point that you missed again for some reason. Relying on ulative team production isn't as sustainable as Star Production..This is common sense and basketball 101.

This thread is specifically about the Hawks game. I'm harping on it because people are trying to assert that was a good offensive game for Kawhi. It wasn't. That better not even be an average game for him. He needs to be a lot better than he was last game. Has he been better in the past? Yes. Will he be better in the future? God, I hope so. But how much better is the first question and what will it take for him to get there is the second.

I never said it was a good offensive game. He missed shots, it happens. You're freaking out over a Pre-season Hawks game while the Kid has played terrific basketball as a focal point late in the season when games actually matter. You're just making terrible projections right now based of unreliable samples.

Yeah, so he's going to be given a chance to jack up just as many shots as Kawhi until he figures it out, and then it's going to be his offense. Pop's been giving them both a chance to spread their wings. I don't think he's going to let Kawhi chuck while keeping LMA on training wheels.

You're also making terrible assumptions. Kawhi barely jacks up shots..Aside from you and some irrelevant morons, kawhi doesn't have a reputation of a chucker and it's for a reason. You're trying to make it look like a kawhi led offense is chucking offense. That's hilarious.

[Chinook]

Kawhi chuck. Lmao. The smear campaign by Chinook. Kawhi averages 60%TS.

Yes, he's very efficient when he has good shot selection. This idea that I think Kawhi is a bad player or even a bad scorer is misguided. But the offense you guys were cheering in this past Hawks game was bad. That's not the worst thing in the world, as everyone shot poorly. But I've been looking over the highlights of Leonard's awesome stretch last year, and I see hardly any iso plays. He had unassisted shots for sure, but most of the highlighted ones were transition buckets and actually quite a few PnR plays. His Clippers games definitely did have a lot of iso ball, but I don't think most of his games had his trying to beat his guys (especially non-mismatches) one on one.

[Chinook]

Your terrible mistake is simplifying kawhi's game to a post up player.

No, and at this point it's getting a little disingenuous. We're not talking about the majority of Kawhi's game. We're talking about the Hawks game and how that offensive gameplan looks. As I said to dabom, Kawhi didn't seem to iso much at all in the post-All Star highlight vids I watched. He got most of his unassisted buckets in transition and some PnR. Most of the rest were post-ups on mismatches. Those are good shots, and ones I hope are a part of any Leonard-centric offense. The issue isn't that Kawhi doesn't take a lot of good shots. It's that he takes some iso jumpers that are NOT good shots. And those need to go the way of the dinosaur. He barely took any of those in the highlight vids from last year's regular season. So it seems pretty clear to me that Leonard can be the focus of the offense while leaving the jumpers he was taking the Hawks games on the practice court.

Where did I say the spurs should play a similar system?

A good comparison sample is when Lebron-PG-Durant plays the off ball situation.

He's not KD and shouldn't even try to play in the offense KD has played in. That's both because he and Durant have different strengths and because Durant has been in bad offense so far.

Where the did i say this? I said he took one contested shot.

The video only showed his makes. He only had six makes. So if he had one bad shot in that vid, then it was one of six.

Relying on ulative team production isn't as sustainable as Star Production..This is common sense and basketball 101.

Leonard was a star for two months. Green was a three-and-D player who scored 15.8 pp36 over that same two-month span. You're trying to question Green's consistency, chaulking it up to "team production", when Danny was still at 14.3 pp36 while Kawhi was dealing with his consistency issues. Green is a career 14.1 pp36 guy who's actually had a year where he averaged even more than 15.8 pp36. Which is seems to more sustainable? This isn't Kawhi vs Green in any way. I'm just pointing out that Danny a much larger sample of being a fourth-option scorer and you seem to have no issue dismissing the notion he can keep it up.

You're just making terrible projections right now based of unreliable samples.

I'm not making projections. I'm evaluating the past. Leonard's offense in the Hawks game was bad. That's not what anyone should be happy about. That's not even how he played last year. IF that's how he played in the regular season, IF people are satisfied with that last game, they'll get a poor scorer. I simply said he has to be better than the Hawks game, both in results and in shot-selection. It shouldn't even be debatable.

You're trying to make it look like a kawhi led offense is chucking offense.

A Kawhiso offense IS a chucking offense. An offense that integrates Kawhi and that doesn't force feed him the ball is not one. The question is if Pop is going to have Kawhi play like he did in the regular season last year or have him play like did against the Clippers. The regular-season offense was a lot of attacking close-outs, running in transition, cutting to the basket and running simple PnRs. The post-season offense was a lot of post-ups and isos. It was great when he had the mismatch, and it was horrible sometimes when he didn't. The Hawks game was closer to the Clippers series, and that's why it should be panned. That level of explosion isn't sustainable if he's going to just go against the best defender every night.

[apalisoc_9]

No, and at this point it's getting a little disingenuous. We're not talking about the majority of Kawhi's game. We're talking about the Hawks game and how that offensive gameplan looks. As I said to dabom, Kawhi didn't seem to iso much at all in the post-All Star highlight vids I watched. He got most of his unassisted buckets in transition and some PnR. Most of the rest were post-ups on mismatches. Those are good shots, and ones I hope are a part of any Leonard-centric offense. The issue isn't that Kawhi doesn't take a lot of good shots. It's that he takes some iso jumpers that are NOT good shots. And those need to go the way of the dinosaur. He barely took any of those in the highlight vids from last year's regular season. So it seems pretty clear to me that Leonard can be the focus of the offense while leaving the jumpers he was taking the Hawks games on the practice court.

I agree that he needs to attack as opposed to settling for 16<jumpers, even an idiot who barely watches basketball would agree. But it isn't even a problem because he took those shots at a minimum post all star break. The Hawks game had a couple bricks, but nowhere was that game close to kawhiso game..The few times he actually posted up, he scored. But you're never going to be to abandon those ISO shots...He took them minimally post all-star-break..Only to keep the defense honest. So what's your problem with Kawhi led offense again?

He's not KD and shouldn't even try to play in the offense KD has played in. That's both because he and Durant have different strengths and because Durant has been in bad offense so far.

Why would he do this? The spurs aren't the thunder.

The video only showed his makes. He only had six makes. So if he had one bad shot in that vid, then it was one of six.

I rewatched that game. He took one really bad shot and 1 shot that you could argue for. If you star player is going to take only one or two bad shots a game..Holy you have a winner.

Leonard was a star for two months. Green was a three-and-D player who scored 15.8 pp36 over that same two-month span. You're trying to question Green's consistency, chaulking it up to "team production", when Danny was still at 14.3 pp36 while Kawhi was dealing with his consistency issues. Green is a career 14.1 pp36 guy who's actually had a year where he averaged even more than 15.8 pp36. Which is seems to more sustainable? This isn't Kawhi vs Green in any way. I'm just pointing out that Danny a much larger sample of being a fourth-option scorer and you seem to have no issue dismissing the notion he can keep it up.

This isn't about Green vs Kawhi though. Stop using Per36. You didn't use per36 on your initial post.

Ofcourse I have no problem with that. Even the 15 year old girl next door would be able to tell points of role players are not consistent...and everyone and their mother know Green is a streak shooter

I'm not making projections. I'm evaluating the past. Leonard's offense in the Hawks game was bad. That's not what anyone should be happy about. That's not even how he played last year. IF that's how he played in the regular season, IF people are satisfied with that last game, they'll get a poor scorer. I simply said he has to be better than the Hawks game, both in results and in shot-selection. It shouldn't even be debatable.

He missed shots in the Hawks game and Pop tried him out as Point forward. What makes you think me, FKLA, dabom or other posters think that's how the team is going to play. We're arguing for the midrange game and he that's part of kawhi's game. You've been arguing against a Kawhi Led offense using a Hawks game sample..

A Kawhiso offense IS a chucking offense.

There isn't a kawhiso offense. The clipper series offense is a function of Tony Parker's ty play and pop's refusal to run with Mills. Kawhi didn't actually have to play ISO when Mills was on the floor but Pop had no option when Parker was running the point.

[Mnky]

Someone said sf centered teams arnt efficient, citing LeBron as the only other effective player. So it is efficient, depending on the player.

They also cited PG, Melo, and KD as alternatives that didn't work out.

All three of those guys led their team to conference finals, 2 multiple times plus a finals showing.

Bad takes tbh.

Kawhi is already effective and will become more so once he gets playing time as a focal point. He has shown to shine in any area you give him time to adapt too. His 3pt shot, his mid range, his defense, his rebounding, his fast break finishing, and his post up. Constantly improved every opportunity he was given.

Nothing suggests he won't continue this trend when given the next opportunity.

[kobyz]

Kawhi = Terrence Jones very much, very similar in talent, only one is more marketable and play for Spurs that maximize his game and hide weaknesses...

[YGWHI]

Kawhi = Terrence Jones very much, very similar in talent, only one is more marketable and play for Spurs that maximize his game and hide weaknesses...

Poor guy

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi is overrated, Kawhi = Terrence Jones very much, very similar in talent, only one is more marketable and play for Spurs that maximize his game and hide weaknesses...

[YGWHI]

For those who don't believe he can continue to improve on offense..."He will never be..blah blah blah" "Just focus on defense, shoot less blah blah"

More KawhiLights.

[spurraider21]

kawhi's jumper looked silky smooth