Why do people claim that taking down Confederate statues is erasing history?

[Thread]

I'm gonna drop this in here of a Friday morning.

& nobody can stop me:::

[RandomGuy]

The nullification of these laws by the Legislatures of two thirds of the non slaveholding States important as it is in itself is additionally as is furnishing evidence of an open disregard of cons utional obligation, and of the rights and interests of the slaveholding States and of a deep and inveterate hostility to the people of these States.

They wanted to keep slavery. The admission of new non-slaveholding states meant that they might be forced to give it up.

"states rights" were used as a patina, a tactic. The goal was explicit. "keep slavery"

http://www.civilwarcauses.org/florida-dec.htm

[Pavlov]

They aren't all explicit as Mississipi.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world


Muh states' rights heritage.

[boutons_deux]

states rights was the right to keep slaves on whose backs the South's 1% became wealthy.

[RandomGuy]

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Alabama and the other States united under the compact styled "The Cons ution of the United States of America"

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic ins utions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the cons ution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security, therefore:

Be it declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, That the State of Alabama now withdraws, and is hereby withdrawn from the Union known as "the United States of America," and henceforth ceases to be one of said United States, and is, and of right ought to be a Sovereign and Independent State.

Section 2. Be it further declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled, That all powers over the Territory of said State, and over the people thereof, heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America, be and they are hereby withdrawn from said Government, and are hereby resumed and vested in the people of the State of Alabama. And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Cons ution of the United States,

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp

(note: not all issued "Declarations" like Mississipi apparently. Most passed ordinances that were more legalistic forms meant to be cons utional in nature)

[RandomGuy]

"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Cons ution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the ins ution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Cons ution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Cons ution.

"We had a deal. We could keep slaves. We view your actions as going back on that deal."

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/south...eclaration.asp

[RandomGuy]

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact en led "The Cons ution of the United States of America."
We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the November 22, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Cons ution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Cons ution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.
We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.
We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Cons ution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.
Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this January 26, 1861

They didn't actually outline their reasons here. Very brief and consise. "We quit".

[RandomGuy]

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own cons ution, under the guarantee of the federal cons ution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the ins ution known as negro slavery - the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits - a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her ins utions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slaveholding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

"Negroes should be kept in bondage forever."

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/texas_declaration.asp

[RandomGuy]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying there were multiple issues. And for many, the issue was not about upholding slavery but rather Cons utional rights. If you don't follow your Cons ution, then tyranny abounds.

What about when your Cons ution enshrines evil?

The deal was the slaveholding states got to keep that , explicit in the Cons ution in several places.

The Cons ution also allows for amendments by 2/3 of the states.

Explicit in the statements was a concern that they would have to actually follow the Cons ution and accept those amendments, if too many new non-slave states were admitted.

Rather than follow the Cons ution they agreed to, they chose to leave, explicitly to keep slavery.

[rjv]

another statue bites the dust:

[RandomGuy]

another statue bites the dust:

The Yankees are in Chattenooga!!

[rjv]

The problem in considering how to remember events a nation would rather forget is in how to build a more just state from the memory of horrendous crimes. Traditional monuments, with their rigid and unwavering positions on history and their appeal to emotions, resemble the demagoguery of fascism. A better monument would be one that does not displace the past or reduce us to spectators. There are examples of what are called "counter-monuments" that are so much better because they challenge the very premise of their own existence. The Aschtott Fountain in Germany is a perfect example of this. That the U.S. lacks such a "counter-monument" movement speaks to the psyche of American thought when it comes to how we regard our racist DNA. That's why we're so offended when athletes kneel during the anthem or question the ritual of a school's pledge of allegiance; because such actions threaten the premise of America as the greatest nation.

[boutons_deux]

"That's why we're so offended when athletes kneel during the anthem or question the ritual of a school's pledge of allegiance; because such actions threaten the premise of America as the greatest nation"

many aren't offended by kneeling during the bloody, war-loving anthem, when the protest is about the police brutalizing, impoverishing, incarcerating, slaughtering blacks.

America has provided plenty of evidence that it is not the greatest nation which is a masturbatory, self-congratulating myth, is rated the most dangerous nation by other nations, starts wars of choice, tortures captives, tortures its own citizens with solitary confinement, is a failed democracy, etc, etc.

[RandomGuy]

Man, did I kill this thread?

No one wants to try and make the "states rights" bull argument anymore?

[Spurtacular]

What about when your Cons ution enshrines evil?

The deal was the slaveholding states got to keep that , explicit in the Cons ution in several places.

The Cons ution also allows for amendments by 2/3 of the states.

Explicit in the statements was a concern that they would have to actually follow the Cons ution and accept those amendments, if too many new non-slave states were admitted.

Rather than follow the Cons ution they agreed to, they chose to leave, explicitly to keep slavery.

The Cons ution "enshrined evil" when it called blacks 3/5th of a man. If the North was holier than the South, then they shouldn't have formed a union with them. I'm not trying to defend the peculiar ins ution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.

[Spurtacular]

Man, did I kill this thread?

No one wants to try and make the "states rights" bull argument anymore?

It doesn't need to be in quotes. States rights are a solid concept ingrained into the Cons ution. But yea, you are a bit of a buzzkill.

[Pavlov]

I'm not trying to defend the peculiar ins ution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.

The contract to preserve slavery forever?

Where's that do ent?

[Spurtacular]

The contract to preserve slavery forever?

Where's that do ent?

It wasn't a secret that the South had slaves in 1789, dude.

[Pavlov]

It wasn't a secret that the South had slaves in 1789, dude.

Where is the contract to preserve slavery forever?

Apparently that's a secret.

[Spurtacular]

Where is the contract to preserve slavery forever?

Apparently that's a secret.

Not going to debate your gay arguments, dude.

[Pavlov]

Not going to back up my arguments, dude.

[SnakeBoy]

ESPN pulls announcer Robert Lee from covering a Virginia football game because his name is Robert Lee
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...icle-1.3434079

Dis guy might trigger liberals

smh today's democrats

[Pavlov]

San Antonio not wasting any time.



San Antonio removing Confederate statue in Travis Park

Buh-bye

[AaronY]

ESPN pulls announcer Robert Lee from covering a Virginia football game because his name is Robert Lee
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...icle-1.3434079

Dis guy might trigger liberals

smh today's democrats

Wtf. That really happened?

[RandomGuy]

The Cons ution "enshrined evil" when it called blacks 3/5th of a man. If the North was holier than the South, then they shouldn't have formed a union with them. I'm not trying to defend the peculiar ins ution. I'm just noting how the North did not meet their contractual obligations.

The North bent over backwards to live up to its obligations.

The South didn't want to live up to its obligations.

The South was fine with using Federal power to force Northern states to send escaped slaves back into bondage. When Northern states passed laws the South used Federalism to strike that down.

At some point, the South was going to be forced, by the terms it agreed to, to give up slavery as there would eventually be a cons utional amendment against it, and certainly explicit federal laws against it.