Hey kids, let me show you proof that God's real

[Avante]

Same old crap, YES.....the Bible is a load of bull , that doesn't mean we didn't have a Designer. HE/IT/THEY....might have gone the evolution route. Anyone thinking this all just happened, DNA doesn't just happen, is stupid.

[spurraider21]

It isn’t the only possible explanation but it’s by far the most logical one.

its a pretty big ask for me to just take your word on that tbh, surely you understand. at least without knowing the story

With that knowledge, comes a lot of responsibility. God didn’t for whatever reason want you to have that responsibility. So I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

huh. trust me, i have special knowledge/enlightenment, you wouldn't understand. where have i seen that before?



again, this isn't me necessarily saying "you're wrong and i know you're wrong" (though i do have my opinions), but rather am pointing out that it hasn't been supported in any meaningful way

[Pavlov]

Essentially it's the whole gamut of science. The more one learns about the exquisite and delicate computations that enable life as we know it, the more silly it becomes to consider this to be such a ridiculously unlikely happenstance.

That's not a scientific basis of creationism. That's an argument for giving up on science out of laziness.

What is the scientific basis of creationism?

[spurraider21]

What is the scientific basis of creationism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmi...chool_District

[RandomGuy]

God "experiences" are the result of emotional/psychological manipulation. I once thought God revealed himself to me too...but I realized that was me wanting it to be real more than it being real. Getting into churches and around like minded people who also had "experiences" only made me believe it more. It was only after I started doing some research did I realize that most of what I believed was made up by people.

I do think there is something out there, but I don't have a clue what it is or how it works. But one thing is for sure, it has nothing to do with the Abrahamic religions. He's a little too hippie for me, but I do like a lot of the stuff Alan Watts has to say about spirituality.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no.../#.Wr0_Hy7waM8

For his final trick, Epley looked at the brains of recruits as they in turn attempted to peer into the mind of God. While sitting in an fMRI scanner, 17 people had to state how they, God or an average American would feel on a list of social issues, including universal health care, stem cell research, euthanasia, abortion, sex education and more. As before, their answers revealed a closer match between their beliefs and those they ascribed to God, than those they credited to the average Joe or Jill.

The brain scans found the same thing, particularly in a region called the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) that’s been linked to self-referential thinking. The mPFC is more active when we think about our own mindsets than those of others. Epley found that it was similarly abuzz when the recruits thought about their own at ude or God’s, but lower when they considered the average American. The three images below show the differences in brain activity between the three tasks and you can see that the ‘God’ and ‘self’ scans had little to distinguish them.

"God" always end up wanting the exact things, and thinking the exact things that people who believe in him believe themselves.

Same areas of the brain light up when people consider "I think X" and "God thinks X".

That says it all for me.

[RandomGuy]

Obviously, I disagree. There is definitely for some (or a lot) of people an emotional/psychological aspect. But, for others, it’s more than that.

I don’t know what is or isn’t true in terms of everything in the Bible.

There, really, are only a couple things I do know. Actually know.

1. There is a God & He’s the God of the Jews & Christians.
2. Jews were the Chosen People

That is a big burden of proof you take on.

How do you know?

[RandomGuy]

It all really comes down to the scientific method, and where the burden of proof lies...

In science you can attribute behavior you don't understand to anything, but then the burden of proof is on you to support it and your peers to bring it down. That synergy is what creates knowledge. We're not talking opinions or faith, but actual tangible, testable, observable behavior.

That's why creationism and other faith or dogma based theories are really intellectually lazy, since once you attributed it to the deity of your choosing, and since such deity is not actually tangible, testable nor observable, the scientific method can no longer be achieved, and, as such it's not science.

It's lazy because once it's attributed to the imaginary guy, the process ends. There's nothing to support or debunk, since it's not testable. IOW, from a scientific standpoint, worthless. It doesn't advance the sciences or knowledge, it doesn't promote advancing the sciences or knowledge. Just junk.

(That's not to say that scientists can't be religious people themselves, which is a completely different topic).

In short:

Faith is the death of reason.

[Avante]

That is a big burden of proof you take on.

How do you know?

Prove that isn't true, 100% proof.

[mingus]

its a pretty big ask for me to just take your word on that tbh, surely you understand. at least without knowing the story


huh. trust me, i have special knowledge/enlightenment, you wouldn't understand. where have i seen that before?



again, this isn't me necessarily saying "you're wrong and i know you're wrong" (though i do have my opinions), but rather am pointing out that it hasn't been supported in any meaningful way

”meaningful” as in has it been vetted via the scientific method? No. If that’s the only means, you believe, by which knowledge can be acquired, then I will respectfully disagree. And it’s why I wouldn’t even bother going into my life story with you or anyone who believes that that is the only way by which we can come to knowledge. If we disagree on basic ideas of knowledge acquisition, it’s going to end, most likely, just how it started. Which is w/ you & me not coming to any consensus. Unless I can convince you that there are other forms of knowledge acquisition. Which, I believe, is actually possible. It’s just a question of trust. I don’t know you.

And I’m not asking you or anyone to take my word for it. I don’t proselytize.

[Avante]

”meaningful” as in has it been vetted via the scientific method? No. If that’s the only means, you believe, by which knowledge can be acquired, then I will respectfully disagree. And it’s why I wouldn’t even bother going into my life story with you or anyone who believes that that is the only way by which we can come to knowledge. If we disagree on basic ideas of knowledge acquisition, it’s going to end, most likely, just how it started. Which is w/ you & me not coming to any consensus. Unless I can convince you that there are other forms of knowledge acquisition. Which, I believe, is actually possible. It’s just a question of trust. I don’t know you.

And I’m not asking you or anyone to take my word for it. I don’t proselytize.

Right here is what I'm talking about, look at how relaxed and knowing mingus is compared to all these......oh yeah well prove it. This has been my experience, those with their God far better off than all those non believers.

[Blake]

my thread

now everybody needs your permission before submitting a post?

No, jerk. I was being sarcastic; making fun of you for lecturing me how I should post in my thread.

[Blake]

inevitably devolves into this when blake has the most posts in a thread

Who Posted?

spurraider21 Posts 38

Blake Posts 37

[rmt]

In short:

Faith is the death of reason.

Isaac Newton had faith in God - do you think he didn't reason?

[Blake]

Isaac Newton had faith in God - do you think he didn't reason?

The ol' "yeah but this smart guy over here believes in God"

[mingus]

That is a big burden of proof you take on.

How do you know?

Firstly, as I told Spurraider, I don’t proselytize. I understand that, especially in the age we live in, forms of knowledge acquisition not consistent with modern science don’t hold much weight. I understand & respect that. It’s why it’s not really worth my time & effort to change that unless I see that someone really wants to know & it’s someone I respect & who respects me.

[rmt]

The ol' "yeah but this smart guy over here believes in God"

I'm not the one who made such a blanket statement.

[Avante]

Firstly, as I told Spurraider, I don’t proselytize. I understand that, especially in the age we live in, forms of knowledge acquisition not consistent with modern science don’t hold much weight. I understand & respect that. It’s why it’s not really worth my time & effort to change that unless I see that someone really wants to know & it’s someone I respect & who respects me.

There it is, the believer on a whole higher level than all those....oh yeah well......gotta love it.

Who could possibilty care what others believe in? This is some big deal, why?

UNLESS......somebody is trying to bug you with their beliefs.

[benefactor]

1. There is a God & He’s the God of the Jews & Christians.
2. Jews were the Chosen People

The rub here is that Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah and they don't believe in eternal . These are pretty big deal breakers from the Christian perspective

[Blake]

I'm not the one who made such a blanket statement.

That's exactly your argument.

[Blake]

The rub here is that Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah and they don't believe in eternal . These are pretty big deal breakers from the Christian perspective

Jews no longer the chosen people

[mingus]

In short:

Faith is the death of reason.

What if you know, though?

Wouldn’t that just be a more enlightened reason?

A reason that is blinding to those who don’t believe (or know, as I do) since it masquerades as supers ion. Blinding to those living blissfully ignorant of a higher reason.

Faith is is the death of reason—to you.

But it let me give you an example of where it isn’t—to me.

Say you & me were somewhere & a guy comes up to both of us & says one of you is going to get murdered. Not just murdered, but tortured in the most inhumane way.

What would your response be?

I’d tell you what mine would be.

I’d tell him to go ahead & do it to me. And I’d subject myself to it with a smile on my face.

You wouldn’t understand.

Faith is what you describe it as. Knowledge is what I describe it as. And that knowledge gives me absolutely no fear of anything—other than not adding to what is Good, protecting what is Good & eliminating all Evil.

[mingus]

The rub here is that Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah and they don't believe in eternal . These are pretty big deal breakers from the Christian perspective

The God of the Jews spoke to me.

I believe in Jesus. But I don’t know like I do the God of the Jews. That’s a leap of faith for me. Actually, I won’t say it’s a leap of faith. I just say “Judeo-Christian” God. It’s that God.

[RandomGuy]

Firstly, as I told Spurraider, I don’t proselytize. I understand that, especially in the age we live in, forms of knowledge acquisition not consistent with modern science don’t hold much weight. I understand & respect that. It’s why it’s not really worth my time & effort to change that unless I see that someone really wants to know & it’s someone I respect & who respects me.

There is a good reason that things that aren't consistent with modern science don't hold much weight. Science works. Not perfectly, but it is better than anything else we have tried.

I seem to remember going back and forth on this before with you though. If memory serves it was a fairly respectful even-keeled discussion.

Not asking for proselytization, just reasoning.

"personal experience" is the usual thing, if one doesn't use a holy book as primary justification.

[Avante]

The God of the Jews spoke to me.

mingus, why are you bothering with this? All those disagreeing with you won't be changing their minds. You seem above this silliness.

You will never read.....ok, I;ve changed my mind.....on the internet.

[RandomGuy]

What if you know, though?

Wouldn’t that just be a more enlightened reason?

A reason that is blinding to those who don’t believe (or know, as I do) since it masquerades as supers ion. Blinding to those living blissfully ignorant of a higher reason.

Faith is is the death of reason—to you.

But it let me give you an example of where it isn’t—to me.

Say you & me were somewhere & a guy comes up to both of us & says one of you is going to get murdered. Not just murdered, but tortured in the most inhumane way.

What would your response be?

I’d tell you what mine would be.

I’d tell him to go ahead & do it to me. And I’d subject myself to it with a smile on my face.

You wouldn’t understand.

Faith is what you describe it as. Knowledge is what I describe it as. And that knowledge gives me absolutely no fear of anything—other than not adding to what is Good, protecting what is Good & eliminating all Evil.

I understand a lot better than you think here.

God the Jews is demonstrably evil.

Not something I would worship, even if it existed.

While I would not be willing to say that "there is no chance that ANY God exists" I can definitively say that "Bible God" doesn't, especially as it is described.

The easiest, low haning fruit is the "Omni"s. Omnibenevolent, Omniscient, Omipotent.

The latter two are logical contradictions, and the first, well, look a the world.