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The Celtics had won 8 out of 9 and 6 in a row when Derrick showed up. They were already playing very well. The love affair with this dude knows no bounds.
Uh, "so much better with him" isn't really true. They were rolling before they got Derrick. He hasn't been a huge difference maker. JRich isn't really much better offensively than Derrick either. Derrick in totality is a better, but its not some huge change that dramatically altered Boston's season. The loss of Robert Williams is the big change in their season, honestly.
Derrick and this bull framing of Boston aside, are you really trying to make an argument that offensive players are not way more valuable than defensive players? Cause there's no statistical evidence to back up what you're saying here and a literally the whole history of the game to back up what I'm saying.
The Celtics had won 8 out of 9 and 6 in a row when Derrick showed up. They were already playing very well. The love affair with this dude knows no bounds.
well, I guess that explains why Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, and Ben Wallace never won any rings.
And besides, you're being disingenuous. I've gone out of my way to point out the many different aspects of White's production and impact, and you're reducing it here to scoring vs defense. I think you know it's not that black & white. Basketball's a team sport-- you can be a versatile toolsy glue guy that helps your team win even if you're in a shooting slump.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 03-30-2022 at 12:46 PM.
You've said lots of things yes, but the point is that all those things aren't equal. Offense is objectively the more valuable toolset than defending someone is. You mentioned 3 players who won les and were primarly defensive players. I could list hundreds who won les and were offensive players. I can list way more MVPs and hall of famers whos success was based on their offense and not on their defense. Its not even close.
And besides, you're being disingenuous. I've gone out of my way to point out the many different aspects of White's production and impact, and you're reducing it here to scoring vs defense. I think you know it's not that black & white. Basketball's a team sport-- you can be a versatile toolsy glue guy that helps your team win even if you're in a shooting slump.
Offense is the more valuable toolset of the two. Being able to shoot is more important that rim defending for a guard. You can go out of your way all you want, and it doesn't change this. You somehow keep saying that Derrick is good at X and keep saying it over and over and over and over again without realizing that X isn't all that valuable in the long run.
I can make a long list also, of players who scored a bunch and didn't play D, and didn't win championships. Jesus, it's not like I'm saying that scoring doesn't matter. I'm saying a glue guy who does a bunch of good things on a team that already has their number one, two, and three scoring options set can be a valuable asset. Not sure why that seems like so crazy a concept. And besides, no one is talking about MVPs... we're talking about a 6th/7th man on a good team. Obviously if we were discussing MVP status, it would be a completely different set of guidelines.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 03-30-2022 at 01:08 PM.
haha D White can go 1-7 from deep miss two last minute free throws and Spurs talk will point to him taking 2 charges in the first half.
Dude, are you able to read what is being said? Let me break it down for you so its easy.
You said:
I guess I just don't get why you're so convinced that he isn't playing well because of a single deficiency in his game.
I said:
Because offense is more important than defense.
Then you go on some rant about Bill ing Russel and role players and how you've said 210982098420 times. s sake, just stop and breathe and understand that simple point. No one is saying Derrick White is worthless, but his value to Boston isn't as a defensive stopper, its his passing and creative abilities. His shooting too, but that shooting kind of sucks so yeah.
Don't believe me? Go look at the on/off numbers for Boston. They're a better offensive team with White, and their Drating is THE ING SAME WITH OR WITHOUT HIM. So yeah, when he's playing like on the offensive side of the ball people are going to say he's not playing well regardless of his defense (which is incredibly redundant on that Boston team).
Do you understand now?
To give you an analogy if Derrick White was a car, his offensive game would be the engine while his top notch defensive skills are the cup holders. You're wondering why people are upset that the engine isn't running well because the cup holders work GREAT. Why would we ever judge a car on ONE THING, don't they notice these great ing cup holders?
This is obviously hyperbole but offense is and always will be the most important aspect of NBA players.
That might be the worst basketball analogy I've read this year. Show that analogy to Pop, RC, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Brad Stevens, Jerry West, & Mike Krzyzewski... they'd laugh their asses off. Black & white, all or nothing, nuance doesn't matter at all. Ok, it, I'll play along: what if that car has four flat tires, a broken fuel pump, and 5 bananas up its tailpipe? Is it going to win any races?
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 03-30-2022 at 01:47 PM.
Lonnie Walker has a 5.0L Engine, but his car doesn't go anywhere. Guess his cup holders are substandard.
The reason why the Celtics are playing so well is defense. White helps on that score, but he also circulates the ball very well, which they sucked at before.
Ok, so you don't know what hyperbole is. You're gonna have a real hard time communicating with people because you don't seem to read anything other than what you want out of what people say.That might be the worst basketball analogy I've read this year. Show that analogy to Pop, RC, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Brad Stevens, Jerry West, & Mike Krzyzewski... they'd laugh their asses off. Black & white, all or nothing, nuance doesn't matter at all. Ok, it, I'll play along: what if that car has four flat tires, a broken fuel pump, and 5 bananas up its tailpipe? Is it going to win any races?
I mean yes, Hyperbole is a rhetorical method used to communicate with people who can't seem to get a point. You know, like you in this thread? You spent so many posts complaining about how no one understood the points you made time after time after time so I broke it down to you in an obviously exaggerated manner so that even your simple ass woulc understand but apparently I wasted my time because its obvious that you weren't interested in the point but rather just wanted someone to agree with you on what you think Derrick White is.
Of course, you could just be wrong. In which case, your hyperbole would make you the National Enquirer of basketball scouting.
I could be, but the stats say I'm not. So there's that. I told you the defensive rating for Boston is the same with or without White in the game. They have good defensive players at every position. White's not even their best defensive wing. But yes, go on about steal percentage and other bull .
Derrick white with the Spurs this season
OBPM
1.2
DBPM
.5
BPM
1.7
VORP
1.4
With the Celtics
OBPM
-2.1 !!!!!!!!!
DBPM
0.8
BPM
-1.3
VORP
0.1
Gee, why does anyone think Derrick White isn't playing well? Totally the reason the Celtics are rolling!
The Celtics offense was good, the defense not as much. In comes White, so the defense improves and flows better, allowing the offense to also improve. Our offense was mainly Murray and White. When our leading scorer Murray sat down the offensive flow stagnated a bit. Although White's defense was good, his offensive game could be hit or miss. When Richardson plays our offense doesn't stagnate like it did before. In other words Richardson wasn't the defensive player that White was, but definitely a better offensive player that seems to be a better fit for the Spurs offense thus improving their overall game. We are .500 since the trade, not great but that's better than we were before the trade and we will get an added draft pick to boot. It was a good trade for both teams.
What do you mean the defense not as much? The Celtics have been among the best defenses all year! Its their offense that has struggled.
its more accurate to say something happened to his shot. He’s had a down year shooting. I kept thinking he was due to swing back up but it hasn’t happened. There must be some lingering issue that he can’t address until the off-season.
I remember Danny had a bad shooting season for his standards and in the offseason it turned out he was playing injured. He had some muscular or ligament issue. White’s thing can be the most minor thing but enough to affect balance or something. It’s just puzzling bc he’s always been streaky but he’s overdue to streak back up… heck I was just thinking if he recoups his shooting in the playoffs the Celtics will be pleased.
Still, this was a great trade for the Spurs tbh. There’s no downside here and I am surprised the Celtics gave up so much for him. That doesn’t happen without another team (or teams) bidding for him.
Are people in here really trying to argue the Celtics are rolling because of White?
They were already hot when they got him. They've been dominating because Tatum is playing at an MVP level and Brown has stepped his game up as well, not to mention Robert Williams has really blossomed this season. Ime has also done a great job coaching them. Thinking White is the reason is just lazy analysis based on the timing of the trade
Yea this shows exactly why he wasn’t a good pairing with Dejounte and didn’t add much value to the team. It’s also probably part of the reason Derozan and Dejounte weren’t a good pairing either. Richardson is a true SG that wants to shoot every chance he’s open and he’s been hot recently. Its no wonder the team doesn’t miss White.
Are people in here really trying to argue the Celtics are rolling because of White?
They were already hot when they got him. They've been dominating because Tatum is playing at an MVP level and Brown has stepped his game up as well, not to mention Robert Williams has really blossomed this season. Ime has also done a great job coaching them. Thinking White is the reason is just lazy analysis based on the timing of the trade
it was the same thing with demar and now white
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