All Aboard The Reggie Evans Express

[whottt]

TimVP...

1.Adding a rebounder to another great rebounder has never been shown to increase the number of rebounds for either player. So why you think putting Evans by Duncan is going to help his rebounding totals is beyond me.


2.Evans has had one impressive rebounding season....it was for a team that took and missed a lot of jump shots...someone had to be the rebounder on that team. Yes the rate was impressive, one of the most impressive in history, but looking at the other years of his career it is easy to see that so far that year is the aberration.


3. Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...

4.Pop had guys that could get more rebounds than Michael Finley...he just elected not to play them....Why? Because they couldn't guard Nowitzki...Evans can't either.


In closing...

I have to veto this Evans idea...

Too expensive, not a good defender, not a good scorer, not guaranteed to not be sat on the bench, stupidly by Pop, as we stupidly lose a series, not what we need here.

What is needed is a player that doesn't make Pop stupid...

Next.......

[timvp]

1.Adding a rebounder to another great rebounder has never been shown to increase the number of rebounds for either player. So why you think putting Evans by Duncan is going to help his rebounding totals is beyond me.

Huh?

I don't care about individual rebounding numbers. I care about how well the team rebounds. Getting outrebounded in 11 of the final 12 playoff games this year was disgusting.

And to further hurt your point, look at what happened when the Spurs added Dennis Rodman to David Robinson.

--In 1993, the Spurs were outrebounded in the regular season.
--In 1994, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 7 boards a game.
--In 1995, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 5 boards a game.
--In 1996, the Spurs traded Dennis Rodman and were again outrebounded in the regular season.

So, uh, yeah having two great rebounders helps your team rebounding. Who cares what the individual numbers are?

2.Evans has had one impressive rebounding season....it was for a team that took and missed a lot of jump shots...someone had to be the rebounder on that team. Yes the rate was impressive, one of the most impressive in history, but looking at the other years of his career it is easy to see that so far that year is the aberration.

What?

Evans has been a monster on the boards his whole career.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
2003 - 13.0
2004 - 12.8
2005 - 15.7
2006 w/ Seattle - 14.0
2006 w/ Denver - 15.0

Evans started most of the games in 2005. That was his one true chance so far in the NBA. Once he was traded to Denver last year, he put up about the same numbers.

3. Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...

So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have? Ben Wallace at one point in time was just a rebounder. Back then, timvp was on record as saying he wanted the Spurs to sign Wallace.

Back then, people told him that Wallace was only a rebounder and his limited offensive game would mix well with Duncan and Robinson.

Oops.

4.Pop had guys that could get more rebounds than Michael Finley...he just elected not to play them....Why? Because they couldn't guard Nowitzki...Evans can't either.

Evans is quick enough to play versus Dallas. You can buy minutes by putting him on Dirk. You could probably also get away with putting him on Howard.

What the Spurs can't get away with is getting outrebounded in all 7 games of a playoff series.

In closing...

I have to veto this Evans idea...

Good thing you aren't GM or we'd have Shane Heal running the point.

Too expensive, not a good defender, not a good scorer, not guaranteed to not be sat on the bench, stupidly by Pop, as we stupidly lose a series, not what we need here.

What is needed is a player that doesn't make Pop stupid...

Next.......

Another person who shoots down the idea without giving a name.

Who do you propose?

Waiting.

[whottt]

Huh?

I don't care about individual rebounding numbers. I care about how well the team rebounds. Getting outrebounded in 11 of the final 12 playoff games this year was disgusting.

And to further hurt your point, look at what happened when the Spurs added Dennis Rodman to David Robinson.

And both Drod and Rodman's numbers dropped.

--In 1993, the Spurs were outrebounded in the regular season.
--In 1994, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 7 boards a game.
--In 1995, the Spurs had Dennis Rodman and outrebounded opponents by 5 boards a game.
--In 1996, the Spurs traded Dennis Rodman and were again outrebounded in the regular season.

So, uh, yeah having two great rebounders helps your team rebounding. Who cares what the individual numbers are?

Hmmmm...

I think if the Spurs sign Evans and put him next to Duncan, he could lead the league in rebounds.

Your point, not mine...and I don't know why you think Evans is all of a sudden going to see an increase in minutes when he joins a team that already has an elite rebounder....

His rebounding is the only thing that gets him on the court as it is, and it doesn't even do that sufficiently to make him a full time player, even on teams desperate for rebounds...which the Spurs aren't.

What?

Evans has been a monster on the boards his whole career.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
2003 - 13.0
2004 - 12.8
2005 - 15.7
2006 w/ Seattle - 14.0
2006 w/ Denver - 15.0

Evans started most of the games in 2005. That was his one true chance so far in the NBA. Once he was traded to Denver last year, he put up about the same numbers.

Per 48 is not what I was referring too...and at no point have I claimed Evans was not a good rebounder.

But the stat I was referring to was "rebounding rate" and Evans last Seattle season was of historic proportions...but it's the only one you could truly argue was...and it's not anywhere near Rodman's rate. And that rate will go down once being paired with Duncan...potentially it could help our rebounding...potentially, Nazr could have helped our rebounding and with Dirk defending him he could have potentially done a lot more than that...

But Pop doesn't think that way....Pop thinks stupidly on such matters. He doesn't consider the fact that we could create matchup problems for other teams...only that they can create them for us.


But the bottom line is, all you are going to get is rebounding, it's his rate that makes him spectacular, and guranteed, that will go down on a team with Duncan(or Duncan's will,) and it is unlikely that his rebounding and that alone is going to get him on the court enough to...lead the league in rebounding.

Adding him could have helped our rebounds...so could have Nazr.

So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have? Ben Wallace at one point in time was just a rebounder. Back then, timvp was on record as saying he wanted the Spurs to sign Wallace.

Back then, people told him that Wallace was only a rebounder and his limited offensive game would mix well with Duncan and Robinson.

Oops.

Wallace was better defensively, and in shotblocking and steals, from the day he stepped on the court than Evans. Wallce sucked horribly on offense...Evans does too, and he can't defend, block shots, or steal the ball like Wallce could.

Evans is quick enough to play versus Dallas. You can buy minutes by putting him on Dirk. You could probably also get away with putting him on Howard.

Famous last words....We could have also gotten away with puttin Horry on Dirk, or even Nazr and Rasho...

I guess I could understand not doing that if what we did instead in any way shape or form stopped Dirk...however it didn't...and all we did was make him an even better rebounder.

What the Spurs can't get away with is getting outrebounded in all 7 games of a playoff series.

Pop's decision...

Good thing you aren't GM or we'd have Shane Heal running the point.

AS opposed to Anthony "physically unable to step on the court" Carter?

Yeah...too bad I wasn't the GM.

Another person who shoots down the idea without giving a name.

Who do you propose?

Waiting.

Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza. And there are at least 2 others I'd go after before Evans as well...

You overlook the Pop factor, not to mention Evans is not a good defender.

[whottt]

Reggie Evans sucks at anything other than rebounding...

So did Dennis Rodman and how many rings does he have?

Worst post in the history of TimVP.

[T Park]

Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza

when did Trevor Ariza become a big man?

[whottt]

when did Trevor Ariza become a big man?

Read more, post less.

[T Park]

Nice sidestep.

Once again, Spurs need a bigman,


how is Trevor Ariza a solution for the bigman?

[whottt]

Nice sidestep.

Once again, Spurs need a bigman,


how is Trevor Ariza a solution for the bigman?

Link to prove where that is what this thread is about?

[T Park]

whatever...

[whottt]

You laugh because I elect not to take a fruitless and useless walk down the path of stupidity with you?

Ignorance truly is bliss.

[T Park]

I laugh because we are talking about rebounding big men, and you bring up a 12th man scrub Mrs Heal.

[whottt]

The mountain does not come to stupid...stupid must come to the mountain.

[timvp]

And both Drod and Rodman's numbers dropped.

First of all, who cares if they dropped? Basketball is a team game, remember?

Second of all, Rodman posted the best rebounding season of his career as a Spur.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
1992 -- 18.5
1993 -- 18.8
1994 -- 18.3
1995 -- 21.0
1996 -- 18.2
1997 -- 18.1

Rodman was a Spur in 1994 and 1995. His rebounding numbers dropped? Really?

I know you were just a little kid around this time, but at least check your history before barking at the big dawg in this neighborhood.

Hmmmm...

Your point, not mine...and I don't know why you think Evans is all of a sudden going to see an increase in minutes when he joins a team that already has an elite rebounder....

His rebounding is the only thing that gets him on the court as it is, and it doesn't even do that sufficiently to make him a full time player, even on teams desperate for rebounds...which the Spurs aren't.

The Spurs aren't desperate for rebounding? Did you watch the playoffs. The Spurs got outrebounded in 11 of their last 12 playoff games. How much more desperate can you get?


Look back to 2003. In the 24 playoff games that year, the Spurs won the rebounding battle 15 times. In those 15 games, the Spurs were 11-4. In the 9 games they lost the rebounding battle, they were 5-4.

Even more telling, look at the Spurs and Mavs series in 2003. The Spurs were outrebounded in Game 1 and lost. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Games 2, 3 and 4 and won each of those games. The Mavs outrebounded the Spurs in Game 5 and won. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Game 6 and won the series. So in summation, the Spurs were 4-0 when outrebounding the Mavs and 0-2 when the Mavs had more rebounds.

See a pattern yet? With the way the Spurs were dominated on the glass this year, they were lucky to even have pushed it to 7 games.

Not desperate for rebounds? You must be crazay.

Per 48 is not what I was referring too...and at no point have I claimed Evans was not a good rebounder.

But the stat I was referring to was "rebounding rate" and Evans last Seattle season was of historic proportions...but it's the only one you could truly argue was...and it's not anywhere near Rodman's rate.

It was the best rebounding rate All-Time by somoene who isn't named Dennis Rodman.

And that rate will go down once being paired with Duncan

Uh, you do know that Rodman's two best rebounding years were with the Spurs, right. You know, when he was paired with that big buy out of the Naval Academy.

Repeat, Rodman's best two years as far as rebounding rate go were as a Spur.

Whoops.

...potentially it could help our rebounding

There's nothing potential about it.

...potentially, Nazr could have helped our rebounding and with Dirk defending him he could have potentially done a lot more than that...

Yeah, Nazr the postup threat would have done major damage on Dirk

But Pop doesn't think that way....Pop thinks stupidly on such matters. He doesn't consider the fact that we could create matchup problems for other teams...only that they can create them for us.

Pop is also on record as saying missed rebounds in Games 3 and 4 cost the Spurs. You don't think he'd want to try to fix that.

A guy who can go down as one of the best rebounders of All-Time is available but you don't want him?

Classic.

But the bottom line is, all you are going to get is rebounding, it's his rate that makes him spectacular, and guranteed, that will go down on a team with Duncan

Just like Rodman's rate went down with Robinson, right?

and it is unlikely that his rebounding and that alone is going to get him on the court enough to...lead the league in rebounding.

Play him 25 to 30 minutes a game and he'll get you 10-12 boards easy.

Adding him could have helped our rebounds...so could have Nazr.

Nazr is big, slow and dumb as a post. Evans is quick and crafty.

I guess I could understand not doing that if what we did instead in any way shape or form stopped Dirk...however it didn't...and all we did was make him an even better rebounder.

Evans would make the Spurs the better rebounding team by himself.

Gave it weeks ago before our season was even over...Trevor Ariza.

I like Ariza as well but he's restricted. Plus him and Evans have about as good of jumpers. Plus Ariza isn't a power forward. Plus Ariza has a rep of being lazy and not wanting to work hard. Evans is an undrafted free agent who lives in the gym.

And there are at least 2 others I'd go after before Evans as well...

Names?

You overlook the Pop factor, not to mention Evans is not a good defender.

Pop will play productive players. He doesn't play you if you can't matchup and don't give him an advantage at the offer end. Rasho and Nazr hurt you on offense and defense. And toward the end of the season Nazr stopped rebounding. There was no plus to playing them other than having a token big out there.

Evans can learn to be a good defender. Bob Hill and Bob Weiss aren't exactly defensive coaches.

Evans already is pretty good. He gives Duncan trouble and if you look at the stats, Evans was the best defender per minute of anyone on the Sonics who played quality minutes.

The tools are there. The rebounding numbers are there. The Spurs need rebounding. If they don't address that need, next season is over before it starts.

Reggie Evans is the answer.

[whottt]

First of all, who cares if they dropped? Basketball is a team game, remember?

You do...when you claim that putting him next to Duncan will allow him to lead the league in rebounds.

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
1992 -- 18.5
1993 -- 18.8
1994 -- 18.3
1995 -- 21.0
1996 -- 18.2
1997 -- 18.1

Rodman was a Spur in 1994 and 1995. His rebounding numbers dropped? Really?

I know you were just a little kid around this time, but at least check your history before barking at the big dawg in this neighborhood.

That's not the stat I was referring to as rebounding rate...

Rebounding rate is the % of available rebounds the player has a legitimate chance of getting to and gets to...


93-94 was in fact the 5th best of Rodman's career, it was a drop from the previous year, as was his RPG total...

94-95 actually was Rodman's best year in terms of rebounding rate...there's just one problem with that...he only played in 49 games.

IOW, sticking Rodman next to David Robinson did not help him lead the league in rebounds, nor did it improve his rebounding rate in a provable way..but it did decline the initial year in a provable way.

The Spurs aren't desperate for rebounding? Did you watch the playoffs. The Spurs got outrebounded in 11 of their last 12 playoff games. How much more desperate can you get?

Desperate enough to put Nazr, Horry or Rasho in?

Look back to 2003. In the 24 playoff games that year, the Spurs won the rebounding battle 15 times. In those 15 games, the Spurs were 11-4. In the 9 games they lost the rebounding battle, they were 5-4.

Ya well...Pop wasn't playing a 6'7 2 guard as his PF...

Even more telling, look at the Spurs and Mavs series in 2003. The Spurs were outrebounded in Game 1 and lost. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Games 2, 3 and 4 and won each of those games. The Mavs outrebounded the Spurs in Game 5 and won. The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in Game 6 and won the series. So in summation, the Spurs were 4-0 when outrebounding the Mavs and 0-2 when the Mavs had more rebounds.

See a pattern yet? With the way the Spurs were dominated on the glass this year, they were lucky to even have pushed it to 7 games.

Not desperate for rebounds? You must be crazay.

No desperate enough to play a rebounder...obviously.

Uh, you do know that Rodman's two best rebounding years were with the Spurs, right. You know, when he was paired with that big buy out of the Naval Academy.

Repeat, Rodman's best two years as far as rebounding rate go were as a Spur.

Wrong and wrong...again, the first year was the 5th best of his career, the second year was indeed the best...but again, he missed nearly half the season.

Whoops.

There's nothing potential about it.

Potentially Pop may not value those rebounds enough to play him...still want to argue this? I sugges you take a look at the past playoffs and Pop's history of stubborness if you still think his ability to help the team is based on anything more than potential.

Yeah, Nazr the postup threat would have done major damage on Dirk

Nazr the offensive rebounding machine and dunk threat could have certainly given Dirk more problems than Finley...

Pop is also on record as saying missed rebounds in Games 3 and 4 cost the Spurs. You don't think he'd want to try to fix that.

You'd think he would...but he didn't want to fix it bad enough to actually put a rebounder in the game...instead he tried to turn a collection of 2 guards into Bill Russel.

A guy who can go down as one of the best rebounders of All-Time is available but you don't want him?

Classic.

It doesn't solve our matchup problems with the Mavs....it doesn't solve our aging and size perimeter D problem.

Our biggest problem.

Just like Rodman's rate went down with Robinson, right?

Yes, just like that in fact...moreso...because Duncan is a better rebounder than Drob was and Drob was busy doing everything else those two years anyway.

Play him 25 to 30 minutes a game and he'll get you 10-12 boards easy.

Play Nazr those minutes against a team like the Mavs and he will clean glass too, he'll also block some shots, and get some dunks...

Nazr is big, slow and dumb as a post. Evans is quick and crafty.

Nazr can be a dumbass...and so can Reggie Evans. Don't act like he's Robert Horry...he's not.

Evans would make the Spurs the better rebounding team by himself.

Not if he sits as much as Nazr did...which is possible, since he can't defend any better has no offensive ability and is just as capable of being a dumbass as Nazr.

I like Ariza as well but he's restricted. Plus him and Evans have about as good of jumpers. Plus Ariza isn't a power forward. Plus Ariza has a rep of being lazy and not wanting to work hard. Evans is an undrafted free agent who lives in the gym.

We've got all sorts of PF and C prospects...

What we do not have, is a long SF capable of defeding the big ass perimeter players in the NBA.

Pop will play productive players. He doesn't play you if you can't matchup and don't give him an advantage at the offer end. Rasho and Nazr hurt you on offense and defense. And toward the end of the season Nazr stopped rebounding. There was no plus to playing them other than having a token big out there.

Nazr can suck...he can also go off...he never go the chance in the Mavs series.

Evans can learn to be a good defender. Bob Hill and Bob Weiss aren't exactly defensive coaches.

Evans already is pretty good. He gives Duncan trouble and if you look at the stats, Evans was the best defender per minute of anyone on the Sonics who played quality minutes.

The tools are there. The rebounding numbers are there. The Spurs need rebounding. If they don't address that need, next season is over before it starts.

Reggie Evans is the answer.

Too slow, too much of a dumbass, likely too expensive, not good enough. Not what we need here.


We need a long SF that can be played at the PF position in a small ball lineup, defense is a premium, the ability to take advantage of Dirk on offense would be nice as well, Ariza has the skill set to do both of these things...and he's a pretty decent rebunder for a 21 year old. This is the only way to short circuit Pop's stubborness...and btw Ariza has shown rebounding potential...and he can score on Dirk's ass.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to get way into this argument because I think Reggie Evans would be a good pickup for less than $2M but I don't think he'll come that cheap.

Anyway ...

We need a long SF that can be played at the PF position in a small ball lineup, defense is a premium, the ability to take advantage of Dirk on offense would be nice as well, Ariza has the skill set to do both of these things...and he's a pretty decent rebunder for a 21 year old.

You realize that Ariza is Bowen-size, right?

I wouldn't mind picking him up for cheaper either, but he's not the answer for long 3/athletic 4. The Spurs are looking for a player who is around 6'10.

[Kori Ellis]

One good thing about Ariza is wingspan though. He has a 7'2 wingspan which is really good for a 6'7 guy. Since he's restricted though, it will be nearly impossible to pick him up. When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?

[whottt]

You realize that Ariza is Bowen-size, right?

I wouldn't mind picking him up for cheaper either, but he's not the answer for long 3/athletic 4. The Spurs are looking for a player who is around 6'10.

He's taller than Bowen and longer than Bowen, he's also about 15 years younger than Bowen...and yes he is light, but he's also barely 21 years old.

Reggie Evans is only 6'8 as well...


If our need is a rebounder than can't defend Dirk and has no offensive game...we had one in the Mavs series...his name was Nazr. Didn't help much.


Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

We've need a long defensive oriented SF for years now and Ariza is that...he's also got hops and can get to the basket.


The 6'10 player which you seek, does not exist in the NBA at this time...at least not to where we can get him.

And come to think of it...if we had 2 Bruce Bowens, we might have had more luck in this series.

[whottt]

One good thing about Ariza is wingspan though. He has a 7'2 wingspan which is really good for a 6'7 guy. Since he's restricted though, it will be nearly impossible to pick him up. When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?

The Magic do not need a SF....they have a 70 million paryoll and are going to have a 51 million dollar payroll next season...

They aren't known as a tight franchise, but damn, they aren't even making the playoffs.


And I have posted an article that says the Magic likely will not go over the minimum to sign Ariza....

At the very least they might be interest in a S&T with him.

[Kori Ellis]

The Magic do not need a SF....they have a 70 million paryoll and are going to have a 51 million dollar payroll next season...

They aren't known as a tight franchise, but damn, they aren't even making the playoffs.


And I have posted an article that says the Magic likely will not go over the minimum to sign Ariza....

At the very least they might be interest in a S&T with him.

I'm not disliking Ariza -- he's from UCLA for God sake -- that makes him golden in my eyes.

I'm just saying that the Spurs are going to look at guys that are 6'9-6'10 first. Ariza was measured at 6'7 going into the draft. Maybe he's grown *shrug*

And I like the guy, but don't think that the Spurs can get him. Just like Jared Jeffries, getting a restricted FA won't be easy.

If Nazr and/or Rasho are on the way out, I think the Spurs will pick up a guy who is more of a PF though and play him along side Duncan.

[whottt]

The Spurs had a defending championship team....they let their starting 6'8 2 guard walk,....you think other teams won't do stuff like that?


And it's not like Ariza has one foot in the door of Springfield already or anything....he's not that good...yet.

[Kori Ellis]

It's not like Ariza has one foot in the door of Springfield already or anything.

I know that. I just think the Magic might keep him. There were rumors of them package Hedo in a trade. If that happens, then Ariza likely stays. If it doesn't happen, then I'm sure a team other than the Spurs will be looking at Ariza too. Restricted free agency sucks.

[MannyIsGod]

I saw Devin Brown today. There's no ing way he's 6'8". He didn't look much taller than Chris.

[Kori Ellis]

I saw Devin Brown today. There's no ing way he's 6'8". He didn't look much taller than Chris.

He's talking about Stephen Jackson not Devin Brown.

[timvp]

Devin Brown is about 6-foot-3. He's only listed at 6-foot-5 so it's not that much of a lie.

[timvp]

When was the last time the Spurs offered a restricted free agent a contract and got him?

Never happened.