Reply With Quote
Do you have a brain?
ETA: Crap, I missed some context. My bad.
They are in jail... I don't think, as a whole, they are bashful when it comes to their "mishaps and miscues". I suppose it is possible that the survey participants were lying - maybe the were hoping the warden would let 'em go if they claimed to be Christians... but I doubt it, especially to the degree required to significantly skew the data.
This type of study is fairly simple to quantify, despite your disbelief in its results. There are several surveys available in which inmates are asked their religious identification both upon their incarceration and during. The results are strinkingly similar in all surveys. But for all I know, maybe atheists are out snorting crack off the asses of hookers speeding down the highway littering on the way to kill a bunch of people - they just must be better at not getting caught. Meanwhile, those who do get caught decide to lie about their religious affiliation for fear of... who knows?
Do you have a brain?
ETA: Crap, I missed some context. My bad.
Last edited by Guru of Nothing; 05-31-2006 at 11:15 PM.
And what explicit purpose does that serve?
All noble causes, and like I said earlier in this thread - people should believe in what makes them feel good and get through life. But none of these are things that implicitly require the Christian faith. Certainly not to the degree where we should teach Christianity in public schools or have government promoting of religion. That's all I've ever asked for, and yet many continue to continually push for state religion in one form or another.It serves to strengthen those attributes which allow us to impact others.
It fulfills our longing to be accepted and loved no matter the cir stance... when and only when we genuinely seek forgiveness.
It serves to provide the hectic frenetic pace of our lives the 'peace that passes understanding.'
It serves to give us wisdom when our own is likely to fail...
Again I come to the same conclusion: that this sort of study is more complicated than it seems...
BTW Stalin and Lenin were die-hard athiests... And yet 40 million murders are attributed to Stalin alone. I wouldn't dare compare the tendencies of other athiests and equate them to Stalin's... Likewise you can't go to a prison and expect that the tendencies of Christians would be similar to the pool of inmates present in the slammer...
Did you apply a statistical ANOVA test?? that is, did you correct the percentages of your results by the ratio of Christians and Atheists not in jail. And factor out whether or not many became Christians while riding out their prison terms...
There are other studies (conducted by Prison Fellowship ministries) that show that the recidivism rates for a sample pool of about 700,000 inmates ministered by the program was markedly less than the rate for those not ministered. That sort of study takes out the 'intangible' question of whether or not the person actually 'converted' and simply sets out to show whether or not the program was having a meaningful impact on the lives of the ministered...
The lone variable in question was... after leaving prison, did the person fall back to his old habits and end up in jail again or did they reinsert themselves back into society without criminal relapse?
Last edited by hegamboa; 05-31-2006 at 11:25 PM.
Put me in prison and I'd believe in God, because he would represent the best option available.
Like I've also mentioned in this thread... I'm not a proponent of the union of Church and State... the Bible actually does provide a stand on this.... We are not the like Israelites who lived under GOD's direct authority... a true theocratic state... prophets only relayed GOD's message... but had no authority of their own to govern the people. We are more like the Jews living under Roman rule when Jesus was questioned about Roman taxation... and Jesus asked, "whose face appears on the coin?" They responded, "Caesar's." Jesus then answered, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to GOD what is GOD's"....
I do however, believe we have every right to shape the laws by which we live by... it is a Democratic country after all, and just like I have the right to fight for the lives of the unborn... others can fight for their pro-abortion causes... the will of the public will decide... Again, that's the way it works... a popularity contest if you will.... in the end there are laws that I will dislike and laws that I will like... but I will have to adhere to all the laws regardless of my opinion.
Be careful what you wish for...
You are not on par with stringent believers in the faith because stringent believers have righteousness through their faith.
With that being said, your definition of stringent believers sounds more libral than the bible's definition.
stringent believers genuinely repent of their sins, turn from their sins, and try their best to be led by the Holy Spirit.
Here's what the bible has to say about so-called Christians who continue in the ways of the world.
1 John 3:
8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Gods loves all mankind, good and evil, right? So christians just tell themselves " I have to stop sinning" because I'm very religious? Catholics go to confession to wash away their sins. Fresh start for everybody? If it is that easy, why stop sin? Thirty seconds of repent cleans the slate? Is that what people should tell themselves to do? Is that the spiritual out clause?
Your continued mistaken assumption is that Christians are pious because they feel they have to be.
It's an old question. "If you can be forgiven for your sins, why not keep sinning and ask for forgiveness?"
Without even going into how God knows our hearts and that obviously anyone who lived that lifestyle would not be sincere in his prayers for forgiveness, the answer is simple: If you love God, you want to please Him.
Like I said before, if your Christian lifestyle is based on the fear of damnation or any other consequences, you won't maintain that lifestyle very long. That's one of the main reasons I don't like "Fire and Brimstone" pastors... I feel they are counterproductive.
How remarkably average of you.
Jehovah's Witness
But are you not saying that you have to be devoutly religious to end up in the kingdom of God? Are you not saying that God knows ones sincerety? If all of this is true, then why is so much emphisis placed on repent?
Repenting is changing your heart and making an effort to change your lifestyle. It's not just some kind of verbal contract with your fingers crossed behind your back.
If you rape 2,000 babies and you are truly sorry for it, and you beg God for forgiveness and you change your baby-raping ways, then you can enter the Kingdom.
If you change your ways and are truly, truly sorry for it, then God knows, right? Why beg?
It would help you if you read the New Testament. However, an answer to most of your questions is absolutely not. Read Romans 6-8 and you will get most of your answers. Here's an excerpt of what you will learn:
Romans 6
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
True repentence is a lot more than what you described. Explained thoroughly in the bible.
you have to know the meaning of repentence in the bible. It means turning away from your sins and doing your best to live in the spirit.
it's clear scott and I are talking about Christian believers.
You are again asking me to read something that I believe as purely fantastical. The topic of the thread.
God is all knowing, right? So God creates a son to die for everyones sins, knowing he will be crucified, knowing sin will not end. You would think God would not waste time or his precious son on worthless endevors.
lifestyle should be based on appreciation. I don't like the God is going to make my life happy message either. It leads people to Christ for selfish reasons and typically lacks genuine repentance.Like I said before, if your Christian lifestyle is based on the fear of damnation or any other consequences, you won't maintain that lifestyle very long. That's one of the main reasons I don't like "Fire and Brimstone" pastors... I feel they are counterproductive.
If you're truly sorry, you will ask for forgiveness... There's no decision making process there.
It's not like people say, "Man, I screwed up... I feel that I've really let God down. I wonder if I should tell Him I'm sorry?"
Educated debate comes from knowing the otherside of the argument.
It's called Grace.God is all knowing, right? So God creates a son to die for everyones sins, knowing he will be crucified, knowing sin will not end. You would think God would not waste time or his precious son on worthless endevors.
Did God apologize to Jesus for creating him for the purpose of being killed by sinners who will kill him and then continue to sin?
How does any of this make sense? I guess it's good reading if your into this stuff.
Jesus paid the price of the Sins of the people who repent and turn away from their sins. In the bible it says if you continue to live in sin you will perish. Don't listen to the sin all week and ask for forgiveness on the weekend messages. They are unbiblical.
You say if you truly change your ways, turn away from sin, then you will be forgiven. Now you say Jesus "died" for the sins of those who repented and turned away from their sins.
You can't tell me that makes any sense! Does that sound any more logical than "spells or magic potions"?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions