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  1. #176
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    bulls will be trading players now
    spurs need to get involved

    pj brown anyone?
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  2. #177
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Chad Ford on Big Ben and the changing NBA

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...chad&id=2508827

    Ben Wallace was the heart of a champion.

    The 'fro of the franchise.

    In this moment of franchise tragedy, Pistons fans are asking the obvious question: How could this happen?

    The engine that churned the six collective Pistons into an NBA champion.
    On Monday, Big Ben tolled one last time for the Pistons. His agent, Arn Tellem, called Pistons president Joe Dumars to deliver the bad news: Wallace had decided to collect a bigger paycheck from the Chicago Bulls.

    We now recognize a moment of silence so Pistons fans can mourn.

    In this moment of franchise tragedy, Pistons fans are asking the obvious question: How could this happen?

    Wasn't Wallace a lock to re-sign with the Pistons five months ago? Didn't the Pistons trade Darko Milicic, in part, to free up cap space to re-sign Wallace?

    Wasn't this starting five like family, a family that could never be broken up?

    Five months ago, the answers all seemed to be pointing firmly toward "yes."

    Wallace had fired long-time agent Steve Kaufmann and insinuated that he didn't need an agent to negotiate his deal. Dumars sounded confident that a deal would get done and that Wallace was his first priority.

    Milicic was traded at the February deadline. The explanation was twofold. He wasn't going to get into the rotation as long as Ben, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess were on the team. He had a large salary for the upcoming season, and the Pistons needed to free up some room (they also traded Carlos Arroyo for salary cap reasons) to get more space.

    And don't forget that the Pistons were on pace to win more games than anyone since the Bulls won 70 games. We expected them to roll through the playoffs, dismiss their Western Conference challenger and win a second le in three years.

    But then things changed. Wallace started going public with his criticism of coach Flip Saunders. He hired superagent Tellem to negotiate his contract. The Pistons had their lunch handed to them by the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals.

    By the time July 1 hit, nothing was set in stone.

    The Pistons made a quick contract offer of four years, $48 million -- more than they wanted to pay for a center who turns 32 in September and saw his numbers, across the board, decline this season.

    On Saturday, Bulls coach Scott Skiles and GM John Paxson went to Detroit to meet with Wallace. After discussions with several teams about sign-and-trades, Wallace's agent informed the Pistons on Monday that the forward was leaving.

    By then, the Pistons were bracing for the bad news. As soon as they heard that the offers were close -- but that Wallace was still leaning another way -- the writing was on the wall.

    The bell, as Donne famously wrote, "tolls for thee."

    Losing Ben is traumatic enough. But his loss likely forever changes the Pistons as we know them.

    The Bad Boys. The blue-collar workers whose signature was brutal defense and gritty offense will likely lie down in a plot next to Ben.

    Without Wallace anchoring the middle, the Pistons will have no choice but to change.

    Sure, they could go on the free-agent market and try to lure a player such as Joel Przybilla or Nazr Mohammed. Both guys are physical, and both rebound and block shots. But they're poor imitations of Wallace. The Pistons were unable to win the le the past two years with the real thing. What makes you expect they can do it with a knockoff?

    What this forces the Pistons to do is change. Change for the better? That's still up for debate.

    The Pistons' style of play was ugly. Although their hometown fans supported it, the NBA commissioner didn't. David Stern pushed through a number of changes and emphases in the rules that took away the Pistons' ability to do what they do best: play physical defense on the perimeter that funneled offensive players into Big Ben's lair.

    "No one was hurt more by the new rules changes and emphases than the Pistons," one prominent NBA general manager told ESPN Insider. "The league decided they wanted to encourage more scoring and allow quick perimeter players to penetrate at will. It ripped the heart out of what made Detroit so special. Eventually, we knew this would catch up with them."

    The Pistons brass slowly began realizing it, too, during the playoffs. Teams with players such as Dwyane Wade were thriving. The Ben Wallaces of the world were often sitting on the sideline waving towels thanks to foul trouble and bad matchups.
    So, the question Pistons officials had to ask themselves July 1 was this: Did they continue down the same road, or did they change direction before it was too late?

    Re-signing Wallace meant that the Pistons were locked into the same starting five for the next five years. If their losses in the playoffs for the past two years weren't a fluke, the team would struggle to regain its championship form.

    Choosing not to sign Wallace also has consequences. It makes an already thin Pistons team thinner. The Pistons don't have the cap room to make a run at a major free agent, meaning they'll have to piece together replacements with the mid-level exception and the draft. It seems unlikely that the Pistons would get better in the process.

    However, a change might do the Pistons good. The best plan might be to move Rasheed Wallace to the five and McDyess into the starting lineup at the four. That makes the Pistons bigger, more athletic and improves their offense significantly. They'll no longer have to play four-on-five every night on the offensive end of the floor.

    A number of teams are succeeding with this lineup. The Mavericks beat the Spurs in the playoffs using a similar configuration, and the Suns have been red hot for two years without a true center.
    Saunders isn't averse to playing this way, and he certainly has the tools to get it done. Chauncey Billups' instincts are to push the ball. Hamilton, Prince and Rasheed Wallace can stretch the defense with their shooting. McDyess does much of the dirty work that Ben Wallace did. And the Pistons do have players on their bench who can help.

    Everyone in Detroit is saying that Carlos Delfino will play a much bigger role next season. He can slash to the basket and is excellent in transition. The Pistons also are expecting a contribution from second-year player Jason Maxiell -- a rough, physical, undersized athlete who reminded many scouts of Ben Wallace when he was drafted last season.

    And the Pistons still have free agency to add another piece or two to the puzzle. They could still use an athletic scorer in their backcourt who could slash to the basket and get easy buckets or foul shots.

    In other words, things may not be as bad for the Pistons as fans may think. There may be life after Big Ben.

    As for Wallace? He heads to a Chicago Bulls team that already has a problem scoring. With the exception of Ben Gordon and (late in the season) Andreas Nocioni, the team didn't have a consistent scoring threat.

    Adding Wallace to the mix doesn't help that. He may be the only center in the league that's worse than Tyson Chandler offensively. While he adds defensive grit and shot-blocking, the Bulls used almost all of their cap space to get him. They overpaid big time and will have to live with that contract for the next four years.

    If they don't find a consistent low-post scorer (the Bulls are shopping Chandler looking for one) they could be in a position similar to the one the Pistons found themselves in last season: plenty of defense, but no offense to speak of.

    If that happens, it will be the ultimate irony for Wallace. He left thinking that he'd written the obituary of the franchise. Instead, it might be Big Ben and the Bulls for whom the bell tolls.

    Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
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  3. #178
    Veteran loveforthegame's Avatar
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889

    NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Monday night that the Bulls were close to shipping Tyson Chandler to the Hornets for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith.
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  4. #179
    Super Great GM #1 Isiah Thomas's Avatar
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    That would be funny but who do you think the Spurs sign if they don't get Przybilla?

    Yep.
    KVH is an awesome power forward, I almost picked him to be the fifth PF in our rotation
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  5. #180
    Drive For FIVE Spurologist's Avatar
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    Question for Isiah Thomas. What is your opening day lineup?
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  6. #181
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508889

    NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Monday night that the Bulls were close to shipping Tyson Chandler to the Hornets for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith.
    spurs need to get involved and get pj brown
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  7. #182
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?
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  8. #183
    Drive For FIVE Spurologist's Avatar
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    spurs need to get involved and get pj brown
    Don't you think anyone born in the 60s is too old to play in the league. Could be a different story but Brown is done.
    Spurologist is offline

  9. #184
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    brown has one year left on his contract
    spurs need someone this year dude
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  10. #185
    Super Great GM #1 Isiah Thomas's Avatar
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    Question for Isiah Thomas. What is your opening day lineup?
    Honestly, that's tricky, there's alot of pieces to work in, have you ever tried putting together a puzzle with only corners and no middle, or the box to use as an example. It's very hard, but with my army of point guards and undersized PFs I will rule this league, like I rule my team.
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  11. #186
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?
    According to a Hornets inside source on hornetsreport.com, they are starting Peja at 2 and Mason at 3.

    I don't put much stock into inside sources on message boards but this guy called who the Hornets would pick in the draft and the signings of Peja and BJax. Plus he said that Big Ben would sign with the Bulls.

    It's either an inside source or my alter ego.

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  12. #187
    I M Ultimate Badass Quadzilla99's Avatar
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    brown has one year left on his contract
    spurs need someone this year dude
    That's what I meant for 1 year. Maybe he squeezes one decent year out of himself, might need a hip replacement at his age though.
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  13. #188
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

    so it might go down to
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  14. #189
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

    so it might go down to
    Yeah, that too.

    He says its PJ + JR Smith for Chandler + Malik Allen.
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  15. #190
    I M Ultimate Badass Quadzilla99's Avatar
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    the hornetsreport.com guy also posted the rumor first pj brown for chandler

    so it might go down to
    No Dice on PJ then Ok. You have to be careful with him at his age anyway if he falls down he could break a hip.
    Quadzilla99 is offline

  16. #191
    draft bust
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    MLE sign and trade
    nazr we can sign afterward regardless of cap
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  17. #192
    Suppose there never was an Aaron? aaronstampler's Avatar
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    If I were a Pistons fan, I'd say screw Ben Wallace. I mean seriously, HIM.

    THEY gave him a chance and pulled him from the scrap heap.

    THEY gave him a 6 year 30 mil contract when he was a nobody.

    THEY gave him a very generous 12 mil a year offer, that would've taken him to age 36. 12 MIL A YEAR for a guy who can't score. Like 8 mil more than Bruce gets. Dumars kept his word and offered him a contract that would've made Ben the highest paid guy on the team, even though he's nowhere near their best player.

    All this despite Ben playing like crap in the playoffs and getting into numerous arguments and disruptions with Flip. It could easily be argued that he was the Wallace that was a bigger pain in the butt last year.

    Not only did Dumars not punish Ben, but he kept his word and rewarded him. And Ben goes to a division rival for another measly million or two a year?

    HIM.

    Dumars couldn't have handled this any better. Nobody should blame him at all. The one mistake he made in all of this was in A) trading Darko and B) not demanding to his coaches that Darko gets 20+ mins a game, which really shouldn't have been too much to ask for, since they play so many games against crap teams in the East.

    Darko will easily be a better player than Ben in two years, and may already be so by next year.

    The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.

    For anybody like Sequ to suggest that the Pistons won't make the playoffs next year, that's just asinine. The East is so weak, there's no way they go from #1 to #9 in one year. Dumars is a good GM and he'll figure it out and he'll either get Sheed to play hard or trade him for someone who will.
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  18. #193
    Believe. furry_spurry's Avatar
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    MLE sign and trade
    nazr we can sign afterward regardless of cap
    I just don't see the Spurs opening their pocketbooks that much.
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  19. #194
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    well i think i would be really shocked if nazr does not resign with the spurs now....he really wanted to go to chicago.... and with ben going there it wont be possible...i think u can pencil in pryzbilla into det.....now the spurs need to find some versitale players
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  20. #195
    Ragecycling.com Vinnie_Johnson's Avatar
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    If I were a Pistons fan, I'd say screw Ben Wallace. I mean seriously, HIM.

    THEY gave him a chance and pulled him from the scrap heap.

    THEY gave him a 6 year 30 mil contract when he was a nobody.

    THEY gave him a very generous 12 mil a year offer, that would've taken him to age 36. 12 MIL A YEAR for a guy who can't score. Like 8 mil more than Bruce gets. Dumars kept his word and offered him a contract that would've made Ben the highest paid guy on the team, even though he's nowhere near their best player.

    All this despite Ben playing like crap in the playoffs and getting into numerous arguments and disruptions with Flip. It could easily be argued that he was the Wallace that was a bigger pain in the butt last year.

    Not only did Dumars not punish Ben, but he kept his word and rewarded him. And Ben goes to a division rival for another measly million or two a year?

    HIM.

    Dumars couldn't have handled this any better. Nobody should blame him at all. The one mistake he made in all of this was in A) trading Darko and B) not demanding to his coaches that Darko gets 20+ mins a game, which really shouldn't have been too much to ask for, since they play so many games against crap teams in the East.

    Darko will easily be a better player than Ben in two years, and may already be so by next year.

    The Bulls will come to regret this signing immensely. Their "window" to do anything is next year, because after that, Wallace's contract will look very much stupid. And karma will come back to bite Ben in the butt for his disloyalty and pigheadedness big time, just like it got Cuban and the Mavs.

    For anybody like Sequ to suggest that the Pistons won't make the playoffs next year, that's just asinine. The East is so weak, there's no way they go from #1 to #9 in one year. Dumars is a good GM and he'll figure it out and he'll either get Sheed to play hard or trade him for someone who will.
    Nice post Ben got full of himself on a team that has no ego's Ben sure has one now.
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  21. #196
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I just don't see the Spurs opening their pocketbooks that much.
    Depends on the tax threshold.
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  22. #197
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    wow what really pisses me off is the poll on nba.com when it asked which team will win the championship next year and the spurs are not even on the poll....wtf is that bs
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  23. #198
    Agent Wonderbread j-6's Avatar
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    Those guys were no William Bedford or Fenis Dembo mind you.


    There's two O's in Goose. There's two N's in Fennis. Sorry to run grammar smack, Microwave, but Dembo was the best player to come out of SA until that big deputy sheriff in Miami was a kid.

    Dembo got a ring too, I think.
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  24. #199
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    WTF? Are the Hornets going to start Des Mason at the two?

    Makes the most sense. At least Peja can shoot the 3-ball, so having a 2-guard with no range on his jumper doesn't hurt that much. And, Mason is athletic enough to defend any 2-guard in the league. Actually, it makes a lot of sense to start Des Mason at the 2-guard with Peja at the 3-guard. Mason was a 6-4 small forward for the Milwaukee Bucks in 2004 and that team was in the playoffs.
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  25. #200
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    wow what really pisses me off is the poll on nba.com when it asked which team will win the championship next year and the spurs are not even on the poll....wtf is that bs
    That's because it only lists the teams that were in the conference championships. It's not a conspiracy.
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