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  1. #176
    Believe. furry_spurry's Avatar
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    If you really want to make your argument, make a list of players who have "questionable at ude and character- some with criminal backgrounds- even sexual assault charges" that have existed in the past 10 years and let's compare that number to the number of players who have done nothing but good, both on and off the court.
    I'd say one rapist is one too many-- and clearly shows that the team does not worry about "character" as much as people think.

  2. #177
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    So, is the point of the now-expanding Scola diatribe that the Spurs should just come out and say "There's a quarrel between the sides -- one that would probably seem pretty petty to most objective observers -- that has stopped the organization from doling out millions of dollars over several years to a young player who, it seems, might have some ability to make our team better?" Would that be the sort of transparency that would satisfy furry_spurry?

    Should the Spurs front office, manifested in Popovich, Buford, and Presti, be open to disclosing that the Spurs are pursuing trades, that they've targeted certain players in the draft, or in free agency, or that they just don't like particular guys and have decided to never bring them to San Antonio? Should the Spurs front office be making basketball decisions based on what the fans want?

    I'll be frank -- I don't buy much of furry_spurry. This willingness to be "mostly ambiguous" about sources and undisclosed facts makes it rather difficult to even be sympathetic to the point. I mean, the claim is that the Scola situation wasn't about money (or apparently years) so when asked if its personal, we get "well, you could call it personal, but the Spurs "don't want Scola." Fair -- but the Spurs could not want Scola for any number of reasons that don't make them petty or vindictive. They could have quite reasonably decided, after watching Scola play for years in various European and international compe ions, that Scola isn't capable of complimenting Duncan for an extended period of time. Call me a lemming if you will, but I'm inclined to buy the evaluation of the Spurs front office over an extended period of time more than I am the evaluation of a disgrunted fan who watched an exhibition match between international teams with nothing to play for.

    Ultimately, I understand that I'm likely not getting all of the Scola story because it would make ABSOLUTLEY NO SENSE for the Spurs to tell me all of the Scola story. Assuming for one moment that the reason Luisito is still playing in Europe boils down to a petty quarrel, it does the Spurs absolutely no good to even intimate that that is true. If they did, other players -- with whom they might be more willing to overlook such pettiness -- would be seriously disinclined to even think about coming to San Antonio in the future. That would be particularly true with any other of this generation's Argentinians. The further you move away from a petty personal issue being the reason for Scola's non-arrival in SA, the more the Spurs apparent lack of candor makes sense. If they don't want to bring Scola over, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to trash him about anything publicly. Scola's rights remain an asset to the Spurs -- the value of that asset depends entirely on what the rest of the basketball world thinks of him. I'm sure we all already know that it is decidedly in the Spurs best interests to do whatever they can to keep Scola's stock high -- indeed, the Spurs might very well believe (at least in part; I have to believe the completely ambiguous assertions by furry_spurry to avoid further wrath) that the best thing they can do to elevate Scola's stock is keep him out of the NBA. Just a thought.

    In the end, it seems to me that furry_spurry will be unhappy with the Spurs' front office until either there is complete transparency or a press conference that entails an admission that Popovich and Buford are lying, manipulative bas s and no different than the rest of the NBA.

    Having followed the Spurs since the late 70's, I take a different view of the work that those guys have done. I guess my appreciation for that is naive.

  3. #178
    Believe. furry_spurry's Avatar
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    Again totally missing the point. I have never said the Spurs need to tell the truth about anything. What I have said is that they DO NOT. They won't and that is their choice-- all teams do it. What I am questioning is people believing everything they say. Just because the Spurs say Scola isn't here because he can't play alongside Tim does not mean that the Spurs actually BELIEVE that. What they believe is that it is an "acceptable" reason to give to fans as why he isn't in SA- whether true or not.

    REPEAT: I have never said they need to nor are obligated in ANY WAY to tell publicly anything about the decisions they make. Fans need to realize this and I am challenging those who don't seem to want to admit that simple truth. The Spurs will give reasons that they think will placate fans- whether the truth or not. That again is their choice, but it is my choice whether or not to believe them. My dispute is with those who jump in to defend what the Spurs say as the gospel truth- even when sometimes it isn't. For example, as I pointed out, Pop has no problem whatsoever lying through his teeth that the Spurs have no interest in a trade at the trade deadline at the precise moment they are working on a trade of Malik or Brent. Now AGAIN that is his choice to do that and there are reasons they do that- but it still is a lie- no matter how you slice it. So, I know from history to take what they say with a grain of salt.

    and all nba teams do not tell the fans the whole scoop and they do not need to....

    they do not owe spur fans the real reasons they do
    You probably think you are disaggreeing with me- but you are actually making my point. ALL teams do not tell the fans the truth about everything. I just get tired of people acting like the Spurs do.

    You think that only Spurs fans were polled? (And what's with the contant use of quotation marks?) And just how much power to you think the Spurs PR department has?
    I already said the Spurs have a great PR department--better than other teams have. Also, winning impacts polls like these alot- as I am sure the year both David and Sean got hurt and Pop fired Bob Hill that the Spurs would not have ranked too high with fans.

    I guess people just don't want to hear any real discussion on the decisions made by the Spurs and expect everyone to follow along like sheep. I have never been a sheep in my life and I will never be. I examine EVERYTHING I read and hear and look to find the truth within it. I examine people's motives for why they do and say what they do and say and know that usually the truth is somewhere hidden. I have no problem with people questioning what I say and discussing it with me nor with their questioning my motives or my truths. I just hope they do the same with the Spurs.

    I thought that discourse was the whole point of being here. I apparently was wrong.

  4. #179
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    I guess people just don't want to hear any real discussion on the decisions made by the Spurs and expect everyone to follow along like sheep. I have never been a sheep in my life and I will never be. I examine EVERYTHING I read and hear and look to find the truth within it. I examine people's motives for why they do and say what they do and say and know that usually the truth is somewhere hidden. I have no problem with people questioning what I say and discussing it with me nor with their questioning my motives or my truths. I just hope they do the same with the Spurs.
    Ah! The "you people can't handle the truth and don't really want to discuss it" card. I've been waiting for that one.

    Sarcasm aside, it would be far easier to engage in discourse with you if you were a bit less ambiguous about the accusations you're making. I mean, it's fine that you disagree with the perception of Spurs management. But when asked by others in this forum to give a concrete example, in this case concerning Scola, what do those of us who aren't privy to anything other than your conclusion get? We get vague and, eventually defensive, answers that don't shed any light whatsoever on anything other than the fact that you're disgrunted.

    It's a bit like John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election -- I keep hearing that there's all this bad stuff, and keep hearing that I should see the light and understand that what's being done is contrary to what I've been told. But when push comes to shove, you offer nothing other than your increasingly tiresome laments, citing only sources that you trust.

    Honestly, I can't imagine a situtation in which I'd be swayed to agree with many, if any, of the points you make here. But frankly, I'd be far more willing to actually engage you if you were a bit less evasive in offering substantiation to your insider takes. Without that sort of substantiation, it sounds a whole lot more like whining than objective criticism. And, I think in a self-regulating forum like this one, whining is frequently ferreted out as such and blasted for being that; objective cricitism, by contrast, usually draws reasoned discussion.
    Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 08-13-2006 at 04:32 PM.

  5. #180
    Whoa. That's deep. spurschick's Avatar
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    I guess people just don't want to hear any real discussion on the decisions made by the Spurs and expect everyone to follow along like sheep.
    Are you reading the same forum the rest of us are? People question the Spurs decisions all the time! This forum is full of armchair GMs and head coaches.

    FromWayDowntown has made the point very eloquently, so I'll just leave it at that.

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