Italy v USA

[Pero]

By the way, how awesome is it that we have actual basketball games to talk about for a change?

Hehehe, basketball yeah, mixed a bit with politics and what not.
But it`s cool. Otherwise it would be a bit boring during the summer.

[samikeyp]

I don`t think it will. You get a medal and that is normal, especially if it`s gold.

I hope you are right.

[Slo spurs fan]

By the way, how awesome is it that we have actual basketball games to talk about for a change?

I am with you one more time. You see now that I don´t hate you or USA!

[Obstructed_View]

I think USA 04 had a lot of inside problems.
A lot.
The last one was refereeing.

So you are saying that Tim Duncan doesn't know how to set a pick nor can he keep from such things as committing touch fouls or picking up his pivot foot. Good for us as Spurs fans that those things only plagued him for that short period of time, never before or since.

[Slo spurs fan]

So you are saying that Tim Duncan doesn't know how to set a pick nor can he keep from such things as committing touch fouls or picking up his pivot foot. Good for us as Spurs fans that those things only plagued him for that short period of time, never before or since.

Now I don´t agree.

[temujin]

As for arrogance, how about changing all five players after 8' in the first quarter.

That didn't happen in the third and fourth quarters.........

rotations were way shorter too....


ahahahahahahahah............

[velik_m]

I was rooting for the US, and they got away with murder in this game.

I thought that the USA had to learn from Athens that they needed to play differently in order to win, yet they can play a clutching grabbing defense and push off and flop on offense now and there's no problem. It disspells the myth that somehow the international game is superior and we just need to learn the nuances of it. FIBA officiating actually makes the NFL look good.

the diference between hostile crowd in Greece and pro-american in Japan.

[samikeyp]

As for arrogance, how about changing all five players after 8' in the first quarter.

That didn't happen in the third and fourth quarters.........

rotations were way shorter too....


ahahahahahahahah............

So then...each team has to rotate players in a certain way now?

[temujin]

So you are saying that Tim Duncan doesn't know how to set a pick nor can he keep from such things as committing touch fouls or picking up his pivot foot. Good for us as Spurs fans that those things only plagued him for that short period of time, never before or since.

Tim Duncan was called a three seconds violation on a fastbreak, once.
Coming as a trailer.
Incredible.

That was not FIBA.

It was NBA.
1999 Finals, Game 3, in NYC.

It was money, man, one more game.

I have learnt that anything can happen on a basketball court.

[temujin]

So then...each team has to rotate players in a certain way now?

I played for several teams beating up the opponents by 60/90 points.
Our coach used to change the fives by quarters.

By the time we reached the finals, there were no such bull .
7/8 players played.

[samikeyp]

So because the USA coach changed his rotation to try and win the game...that is arrogant?

[Obstructed_View]

So because the USA coach changed his rotation to try and win the game...that is arrogant?

Exactly. Arrogance is benching your two centers in a seven game series and sticking to it for six games even though your team is getting torched on the inside.

[Pero]

Exactly. Arrogance is benching your two centers in a seven game series and sticking to it for six games even though your team is getting torched on the inside.

[samikeyp]

Ahh...now it makes sense. :p

[Slo spurs fan]

Exactly. Arrogance is benching your two centers in a seven game series and sticking to it for six games even though your team is getting torched on the inside.

[samikeyp]

I don't blame K for changing things up....Italy was handing our asses to us in the first half.

But Obstructed....your point was well taken. (and I agree with you!)

[temujin]

So because the USA coach changed his rotation to try and win the game...that is arrogant?

No.
He was arrogant because he DID NOT change the habit of having five folks in and five out, as it really didn't matter who was playing.
I KNOW what that means.
I know PRECISELY what was in italians' mind, at that point.
"Who do you think WE are? Senegal? I'll show a trick or two".
Ask Howard.
It did matter, and remind me the score at half time.

He would have regretted that, had not been for a sensational Antonio in the third quarter.

I still can't believe that Mike D'Antoni allowed that.

[samikeyp]

No.
He was arrogant because he DID NOT change the habit of having five folks in and five out, as it really didn't matter who was playing.
I KNOW what that means.
I know PRECISELY what was in italians' mind, at that point.
"Who do you think WE are? Senegal? I'll show a trick or two".
Ask Howard.
It did matter, and remind me the score at half time.

He would have regretted that, had not been for a sensational Antonio in the third quarter.

I still can't believe that Mike D'Antoni allowed that.

I disagree. He was going with what he had done in every previous game and it had worked up to that point which is what you do as a coach. If something works, you stick with it. This game however, dictated a different strategy. Arrogance would have been not changing his previous strategy and thinking that "My way will work regardless" when obviously it wasn't.

and no, you don't KNOW what that means. You have an opinion on what you think it means but unless you are on the bench with the coaches and the players, you cannot accurately KNOW what they are thinking.

[samikeyp]

I know PRECISELY what was in italians' mind, at that point.

Proof, please.

[Obstructed_View]

No.
He was arrogant because he DID NOT change the habit of having five folks in and five out, as it really didn't matter who was playing.
I KNOW what that means.
I know PRECISELY what was in italians' mind, at that point.
"Who do you think WE are? Senegal? I'll show a trick or two".
Ask Howard.
It did matter, and remind me the score at half time.

He would have regretted that, had not been for a sensational Antonio in the third quarter.

I still can't believe that Mike D'Antoni allowed that.

That's ridiculous. Since the US was getting beat to rebounds and on hustle plays in the first half, not sticking to the rotation and getting the second team in as usual would be a sign of panic. Playing the guys who are playing well in the second half is good "winning time" strategy. If you are implying that the Italian player stepped under Howard intentionally because they were offended by something the US was doing you are out of your mind. Italy was completely focused on the game and wasn't thinking outside that, which is why they were doing so well. They had a small lapse in that focus in the third quarter and it basically cost them the game.

[samikeyp]

Well said.

Hey..I give props to Italy....they gave the US a tough fight. Unlike some of our international friends, I give the opponent respect no matter what. The USA was tested and they passed the test.

[temujin]

I disagree. He was going with what he had done in every previous game and it had worked up to that point which is what you do as a coach. If something works, you stick with it.

I'll bet you won't see that with Spain and Argentina.

This game however, dictated a different strategy. Arrogance would have been not changing his previous strategy and thinking that "My way will work regardless" when obviously it wasn't.

and no, you don't KNOW what that was. You have an opinion on what you think it was but unless you are on the bench with the coaches, you cannot accurately KNOW what they are thinking.

The point is what the ITALIANS thought about it.
Which is exactly what I wrote.
They happened to actually play the -same- game.
As to how do I know, well I think I know a bit the italian mentality......
Whether K likes it or not, changing 5 guys is PERCEIVED as -let's put it politely- a "sign of mild consideration for the opponent".
Mike D'Antoni knows that perfectly well, as he's been over here for some time.

[Obstructed_View]

The point is what the ITALIANS thought about it.
Which is exactly what I wrote.
They happened to actually play the -same- game.
As to how do I know, well I think I know a bit the italian mentality......
Whether K likes it or not, changing 5 guys is PERCEIVED as -let's put it politely- a "sign of mild consideration for the opponent".
Mike D'Antoni knows that perfectly well, as he's been over here for some time.

Changing 5 guys was the USA's rotation for the last ten games. Why would they suddenly change it, and why would professional basketball players on the other team or their coach give a ? Like it or not, the USA has a second team that's on average better than anyone else's first team. It's a unique situation and I'm sure every opponent that the USA has understands that and prepares accordingly.

[samikeyp]

The point is what the ITALIANS thought about it.
Which is exactly what I wrote

fair enough but my original statement stands. This is your opinion of what they were thinking, unless you were there, you cannot say this is fact.


You may not see the same strategy against Argentina and Spain. I am sure that they will be and have been scouting those games and K might decide to change things up.

My point is that you do what you have to do to win the game. If that means playing a different 5 each quarter, you do it, if it means playing certain guys more minutes, you do it. You do what you have to do to win the game period. Other teams have rested players against other teams and played certain players a certain amount of minutes against other teams...is that arrogant also?

[temujin]

That's ridiculous. Since the US was getting beat to rebounds and on hustle plays in the first half, not sticking to the rotation and getting the second team in as usual would be a sign of panic.

There was no need to change ALL five starters whatsoever.

Playing the guys who are playing well in the second half is good "winning time" strategy.

If you are implying that the Italian player stepped under Howard intentionally
because they were offended by something the US was doing you are out of your mind.

Rocca, one of my favoured. By the way he is american born. No, but he did nothing to avoid it.
Offended is a big word. They just put an extra effort. And up they went by 9.

Italy was completely focused on the game and wasn't thinking outside that, which is why they were doing so well. They had a small lapse in that focus in the third quarter and it basically cost them the game.

I agree.