Can You Be A Christian and Support State Torture?

[gtownspur]

Yup.

I would go a step further.

Those who advocate violence and torture are a bit like crack addicts. Those of us who know better can see the harm these things cause, but those who are addicted to it have blinded themselves in a state of denial to the damage. All they see is the crack-like rush of vengence and hatred, without the "down" effects of depravity and immorality, and all the other after affects.

Violence and torture have gone a few rounds in Israel with the Palestinians, and that turned out *so* well.

I'm sorry,

I could care less about avenging.

I don't want to have my children face death just so that i can prove something to the international community that i'm above the frey.

I think you're the one whose crazy.

[gtownspur]

If we mistreat our prisoners, we are simply revealed as hypocrites when we demand the same.


Please Random,

stop with your moral equivalence rant. I hope that if one of my soldiers were to be detained by a hostile enemy, the worse he'd get is waterboarding.

ANYTHING, ANY- ING-THING that causes an IOTA more disregard towards the treatment of our soldiers I will god-damn fight tooth and nail.

Are you out of your mind? Do you think that currently and before any of this, that our prisoners were being treated fairly?




If we mistreat people we have in custody, that makes it more likely that our soldiers will be treated more harshly when they are captured. It doesn't get any more common sense than that.


I again, would like for you to provide me a reason why a hostile enemy would decide to keep his word on torture, when we are way advanced when it comes to every war skill, that not using these techniques would only keep us at an advantage.

The reason these enemies will stoop to worse levels is becuase they are outmatched and simply playing by the rules will guarantee defeat.

[RandomGuy]

I'm sorry,

I could care less about avenging.

I don't want to have my children face death just so that i can prove something to the international community that i'm above the frey.

I think you're the one whose crazy.

The war on terror is the war of ideas.

Which is the better idea to damp extremist views on the US:

The US tries as much as possible to be ethical and moral.
The US will do evil things to defend itself.

Pick one or the other, you can't have both.

Acting morally and ethically PROTECTS your children and mine.

[RandomGuy]

If we mistreat people we have in custody, that makes it more likely that our soldiers will be treated more harshly when they are captured.

TRUE OR NOT?

[RandomGuy]

if everybody else is doing it, why should we care how we treat our prisoners

If your neighbers have a giant sex orgy, does that make it right for you to jump in?

Sorry, if it is wrong for others it is wrong for us.

You have neither a logical nor a moral leg to stand on here.

[mookie2001]

[RandomGuy]

The reason these enemies will stoop to worse levels is becuase they are outmatched and simply playing by the rules will guarantee defeat.

So moral strength is a weakness? Are you SURE you're really a Christian?

[mookie2001]

this thread makes oh 8 look like conservative haiku

[gtownspur]

If we mistreat people we have in custody, that makes it more likely that our soldiers will be treated more harshly when they are captured.

TRUE OR NOT?

If we were fighting canada, yes.

If we are fighting Iran, what's the point?

[gtownspur]

If your neighbers have a giant sex orgy, does that make it right for you to jump in?

Sorry, if it is wrong for others it is wrong for us.

You have neither a logical nor a moral leg to stand on here.

You mean if my neighbors were cutting heads and raping and pillaging, and the least i could do to stop that from happening to my household, is to psyhcologicaly interrogate using waterboarding?

C'mon. You wouldn't?

get real.

[gtownspur]

So moral strength is a weakness? Are you SURE you're really a Christian?

Why is that? Have i concluded that what we are doing is immoral?

[RandomGuy]

You mean if my neighbors were cutting heads and raping and pillaging, and the least i could do to stop that from happening to my household, is to psyhcologicaly interrogate using waterboarding?

C'mon. You wouldn't?

get real.

That wasn't the question. Stop dodging it.

If your neighbors do something evil, would that make it right for you to do evil?

[spurster]

My Bible says something about "visiting the prisoners". Maybe it should have been translated as "torturing the prisoners".

[gtownspur]

That wasn't the question. Stop dodging it.

If your neighbors do something evil, would that make it right for you to do evil?

You mean if terrorist are only waterboarding our own (i wish), would that make it right for us to?

[turambar85]

You mean if my neighbors were cutting heads and raping and pillaging, and the least i could do to stop that from happening to my household, is to psyhcologicaly interrogate using waterboarding?

C'mon. You wouldn't?

get real.

Piss-poor analogy.

Change that to:
If some people in some local subdivisions were cutting heads and raping and pillaging, and the least I could to in order to try to stop that from potentially happening was to waterboard everybody I suspected of knowing.

[gtownspur]

That wasn't the question. Stop dodging it.

If your neighbors do something evil, would that make it right for you to do evil?

I doubt the NSA commits these acts out of spite for what terrorist are doing.


NSA Honcho, circa 2004...
"hey sonny, why those bas terrorist are beheading our agents, let's show them by waterboarding one of their own!"


Terrorist, Kandahar circa 2004....
"But Mohammed, don't you know that if we behead this infidel, the americans will waterboard our own? Such thought gives me the shills..........just kidding ha ha ha!, alright Mohammed, commence the execution."

[gtownspur]

Piss-poor analogy.

Change that to:
If some people in some local subdivisions were cutting heads and raping and pillaging, and the least I could to in order to try to stop that from potentially happening was to waterboard everybody I suspected of knowing.

I didn't know that everyone in Guantanamo was being waterboarded???

You must obviously have some valuable info we all don't have.

[turambar85]

I didn't know that everyone in Guantanamo was being waterboarded???

You must obviously have some valuable info we all don't have.

Every-1 suspected of knowing something regarding terror plots is getting some form of torture for the information, I am sure.

Try to keep up with the analogy, they seem to give you trouble.

And why do you and Yonivore seem to bent on not answering/refuting the problems that I have with you, instead you find some stupid point to argue.

[RandomGuy]

You mean if terrorist are only waterboarding our own (i wish), would that make it right for us to?

This is the 2nd dodge of the question.

YES OR NO, if your neighbors are doing evil, does that make it right for you to do evil?

[Yonivore]

Every-1 suspected of knowing something regarding terror plots is getting some form of torture for the information, I am sure.

Really? How can you be so sure?

Not even the gang of 14 that were recently transfered to Gitmo were all waterboarded. Some of them coughed up information when the interrogator got that stern, "you'd better tell us what you know," look.

Try to keep up with the analogy, they seem to give you trouble.

And why do you and Yonivore seem to bent on not answering/refuting the problems that I have with you, instead you find some stupid point to argue.

What do you want me to answer/refute? I thought I'd been pretty thorough in my responses.

Finding stupid points to argue is ChumpDumper's territory.

[RandomGuy]

Unsurprisingly, my question continues to be unanswered.
YES OR NO, if your neighbors are doing evil, does that make it right for you to do evil?

[jochhejaam]

Unsurprisingly, my question continues to be unanswered.
YES OR NO, if your neighbors are doing evil, does that make it right for you to do evil?

.

RG, just between you and me the question is too elementary to bother answering. Rephrase it as a statement of fact (I doubt you'll get an arguement) and proceed from there.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm glad that some are willing to support my government's use of barbarism in the name of protecting people.

I'm surprised the Administration's supporters aren't arguing for flying planes into buildings if there might be a terrorist located therein.

[Ya Vez]

I didn't know that govt. and people in the govt. were doing everything in the name of Christ... ?

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't know that govt. and people in the govt. were doing everything in the name of Christ... ?

Obviously not everything, just whats convinent to them.

Anyhow, the point of the thread wasn't about government actions but about personal support based on personal beliefs.