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I still remeber my brother crying after he made that shot. THis is about where i'd put him too, only because of his sometimes challenged shots.
No. 8: Avery Johnson
1990-2001
Today he is coaching the Mavericks, the Spurs' No. 1 rival, but Johnson will remain one of the most popular Spurs for his role in helping the franchise win its first championship. It was a jump shot by Johnson, a great set-up man but a challenged shooter, that clinched the Spurs' first le at Madison Square Garden in 1999.
That shot alone merits inclusion among the top 30 all-time NBA Spurs, but Johnson was both the team's floor and spiritual leader during 10 seasons that ended with him as the team's all-time assists leader with 4,474. "The Little General" teamed with David Robinson to provide inspiration and leadership during a decade that stamped the franchise as one of the NBA's most successful.
Johnson's list of Spurs superlatives is long. On the team's list of all-time leaders he not only ranks first in assists, but fifth in games played (644), seventh in points scored (6,486), field goals made (2,700) and field goals attempted (5,544) and fifth in steals (712).
Twice he had 20 assists in a game, second only to John Lucas' 24 for a single game.
Johnson's 789 assists in 1995-96 is the second-best season mark in club history and his average of 9.6 assists that season is fourth-best.
Johnson excelled in the postseason, where he ranks first in club history in assists (547), fourth in games played (81), seventh in points scored (920), third in steals (94) and sixth in field goals made (384).
It was that one field goal in 1999 for which Johnson is most remembered.
— Mike Monroe
I still remeber my brother crying after he made that shot. THis is about where i'd put him too, only because of his sometimes challenged shots.
I think, even had he been able to stay clean, the Spurs still would have traded him for mings.
If Alvin could have stayed clean, there would be no reason to ever trade him (other than money). Terry mings was a really good player and all, but Alvin had lifetime All-Star written all over him. He wasn't a great shooter, but he could rebound, create for others, and of course he was a monster defensively. He was way more talented than TC, but there's no way the Spurs could afford to let him pollute David Robinson's locker-room.
They wanted mings to buffer David in the paint. He could score in the paint, and help with the rebounding load. Alvin was their only real trade asset to get a 20/10 calibur PF. Willie Anderson and rookie Sean Elliott made Alvin the bait.
TC was a flat out stud his first year here...
However...Alvin Robertson, Mo Cheeks, Elliott, Willie Anderson and Drob in 1989?
Hmmm...would have been really interesting considering the team we did have almos took out the eventual conference champions...but TC was a big reason for that...so were Brickowski and Wingate.
I'm just happy the clowns at SE News didn't try to cram AJ into the top 5. It's joke enough he's in the top 10 ahead of Silas and Moore.
Top 7 are going to be Ice, Kenon, Drob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker and Manu.
I'd agree with that.
It'll be interesting to see if Parker or Manu crack the top 5...
I figure that the top 4 will be Robinson, Duncan, Gervin, Elliott.
I agree that 5-7 will be Parker, Kenon, and Manu in some order.
Statistically, Kenon is the superior player in that group -- for that matter, he's statistically superior to Elliott. But Larry didn't have the longevity with the Spurs that Elliott and Parker have had, and he hasn't had the playoff success that Manu's had.
My guess, when push comes to shove, is that Manu's 2005 playoff heroics will barely overcome Parker's statistically superior regular seasons.
Ginobili ends up in the Top 5, Parker is 6, Kenon is 7.
Elliott is 4. Gervin is 3. Monroe puts and ties Duncan and Robinson for #1.
I'm guessing Kenon is next.
I kinda wish they had never traded Johnny Dawkins. Yes, he ended up ending his career because of injuries, but who's to say what would have happened if they had kept him.
A lineup of Robertson, Dawkins, Robinson, Elliott, and Willie Anderson would have been weaker in 1989 than the actual lineup with Cheeks and mings, but would have had unlimited potential in the upcoming years.
Crap, that would have been the quickest lineup in NBA history.
And also Monroe will not have to worry about starting his car.
mings was maginificent during the 1990 playoffs, averaging nearly 25 (24.9) and 10 (9.4) while shooting 53% from the floor over 10 games. He was arguably the best Spur in that series against Portland, averaging 25.9 ppg, including 27 points (on 10-21 FG and 7-8 FT) and 10 rebounds in Game 7 at Portland. That was his 4th best scoring output in the series -- he went for 17, 33, 19, 35, 32, 18, and 27.
Say what you will, but when the Spurs drafted Elliott and Anderson in back-to-back years, there wasn't any more room at the inn for Alvin Robertson. I guess they could have brought one of Elliott, Anderson, or Robertson off the bench, but that team was begging for a veteran tough guy who could score and mings was all of that. As good as Alvin was, I think the deal to bring mings to San Antonio was among the best ever made by this franchise -- not quite as good as Bill Curley for Sean Elliott, but it was still a pretty good one.
Oh I agree about TC, in fact I said so...he was huge against Portland.
Many of those games against Portland Drob was in foul trouble, and Cliff Robinson was matching his output...I am certain Drob fouled out in at least one of them, one of the OT games, and he had an absolutely horrible game in another...and TC was the bigman after that happened.
Put it this way...with the knee injury it's a farily close trade....if TC doesn't wreck his knee, it's clearly a Spurs win.
And we'll always wonder what Willie would have become if not for his shinsplints...
As it stands, his rookie season was his best, and it was a pretty amazing rookie season.
It's strange to me that Kenon is getting so much credit for only a partial career with the Spurs, while A-Train gets hardly any credit at all for his partial career...
Whatever criteria put Kenon so high should also have done similar for A-Train.
A-Train should be in the HOF and have his jersey retired...
Was Sean Elliott really better than Ginobili or Parker?
His best season was 1996 @ 20PPG 5.1rpg, 2.7apg in 37MPG. But this was also a higher scoring team then previous Spur teams, playing at a higher pace. Elliott scored at around 21.2ppg per 40. Which is pretty good considering he was a good defender and played heavy minutes.
Parker and especially Ginobili did play much less mpg, but are still a little more prolific as scorers if you factor efficiency and pace. Parker is at about 23ppg per 40, and Manu at 24.8ppg per 40. That edge shrinks when you factor MPG (which is in Elliots favor). But if you factor league and team efficiency and pace, its reasonably close.
Elliott wasn't a good rebounder or passer. But I guess you could give him the edge defensively on both Parker and Manu -- but would it really be a HUGE edge? Elliott is the weakest playermaker between the three.
Am I missing something here? I would think Parker and Manu these past three seasons have the edge of Elliotts best seasons, no?
I was mostly trying to back you up, for those who might discount just how good Terry mings was for the Spurs. I'll never, ever forget the 52 he dropped on Charlotte that first year, when he found out that he hadn't made the all-star team.
As for the Portland series, you're right about David's foul trouble -- he had at least 5 fouls in 5 games and fouled out of the double OT Game 5 (David fouled out in the first OT of that game).
Cliff Robinson wasn't really matching David's output at any point in that series; Cliff scored 9, 6, 10, 7, 11, 20, and 1 and put up 4, 4, 8, 4, 7, 8, 1 rebounds. Cliffy shot 36% from the floor. David, on the other hand, scored 9, 31, 28, 21, 27, 24, 20 and put up 9, 8, 8, 10, 15, 13, and 16 rebounds while shooting over 50% from the floor.
For the record, here are the game-by-games for Robinson and mings during that Portland series
David Robinson
Game 1: 40 min, 3-11 FG, 3-6 FT, 2-7-9 reb, 6 ast, 4 blk, 2 to, 3 pf, 9 pts
Game 2: 33 min, 11-19 FG, 9-11 FT, 5-3-8 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 3 to, 5 pf, 31 pts
Game 3: 37 min, 11-14 FG, 6-8 FT, 2-6-8 reb, 4 ast, 8 blk, 1 to, 2 pf, 28 pts
Game 4: 36 min, 7-13 FG, 7-8 FT, 2-8-10 reb, 2 ast, 4 blk, 4 to, 5 pf, 21 pts
Game 5: 43 min, 9-18 FG, 9-15 FT, 8-7-15 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 3 to, 6 pf, 27 pts
Game 6: 37 min, 9-17 FG, 6-10 FT, 5-8-13 reb, 0 ast, 6 blk, 2 to, 3 pf, 24 pts
Game 7: 41 min, 7-21 FG, 6-11 FT, 4-12-16 reb, 0 ast, 3 blk, 2 to, 5 pf, 20 pts
mings
Game 1: 33 min, 8-17 FG, 1-2 FT, 2-5-7 reb, 1 ast, 4 to, 4 pf, 17 pts
Game 2: 40 min, 15-21 FG, 3-3 FT, 2-5-7 reb, 1 ast, 1 to, 3 pf, 33 pts
Game 3: 34 min, 8-17 FG, 3-4 FT, 2-7-9 reb, 0 ast, 1 blk, 3 to, 5 pf, 19 pts
Game 4: 38 min, 16-26 FG, 3-6 FT, 4-7-11 reb, 4 ast, 1 blk, 0 to, 4 pf, 35 pts
Game 5: 52 min, 9-22 FG (1-1), 13-14 FT, 5-6-11 reb, 3 ast, 4 to, 2 pf, 32 pt
Game 6: 33 min, 7-16 FG, 4-4 FT, 1-6-6 reb, 1 ast, 0 to, 4 pf, 18 pts
Game 7: 44 min, 10-21 FG, 7-8 FT, 4-6-10 reb, 2 ast, 2 to, 4 pf, 27 pts
I see the spurs in tv since the '80, so I've never seen Silas and Kenon play....but I've seen Gilmore, Dawkins, Robertson and, obviously, A.J. and Moore.
So, imho :
1) Gilmore is absolutely in the top ten; he's the strongest man ever in the game and the reason S.A. had a chance to compete with the monster's team that L.A. was in the '80 (I remember the '82 series, and I think that we could have won with some more guys able to play other than the starting five of Moore, Ice, Mitc , banks and Gilmore; the lakers, for example, had cooper...); he never has been considered for his real value ('cause of the "gentle" stuff), but his presence in the court had an unbelievable effect.
2) I don't know about Silas, but no way A.J. has ever been a strongest play-maker than Moore or Dawkins or even Strickland. Moore has been an all star and the first in ASSIST IN THE LEAGUE. Dawkins was a monster in the college for Duke and in the first times with the spurs was the man winning games by himself...he has been knoked down just by injuries (by the way, like somebody else wrote before me, I would have really liked to see the faster line up of the wotld with Dawkins, Robertson, W. Anderson, Elliott and Robinson plus "cadillac" Anderson); Strickland, for crazy like he's always been, has also won the assist category in the league.
A.J. had (and has) a strong personality and in many games made good decisions, but I won't say that's enough to make him a better/stronger player...quite any year his position was in doubt, also after the le. However, I agree he deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished, and for the kind of history like a player he had...so, we can say that, like a human being and "effort" player maybe he's been the number one, but for the talent level he's barely in the top 30...
1st Duncan
2nd Robinson
3rd Gervin
4th TP
5th Manu
6th Elliot
take it for granted
wtf has tp done to get 4th rankn?
imo i put elliot/manu/tp/horry/AJ
Extra, repe ive consonants are for poetry and not for names. -
Sincerely T.S. Eliot
Take that, LJ.
Did you know his name was actually S. Elliott, and he just moved the extra T to the front?
what about the other L?
Damn.
This looks like a job for Letterman:
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