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Point guards needs to get their teammates involve to get their team going. Good example, Steve Francis good scorer "Not a good point guard", Jason kidd pass first shoot second "Very good point guard".
Good of Parker to listen to the coach
Point guards needs to get their teammates involve to get their team going. Good example, Steve Francis good scorer "Not a good point guard", Jason kidd pass first shoot second "Very good point guard".
Guys almost never have to create their own shots due to the Spurs offense. Double team Duncan, he passes out to the open guy, he shoots. Parker/Ginobili drives to the hole, draws defense in, they pass it out to the wide open perimeter shooter.
Because of the way Parker plays, guys DO get open looks.
Wow. Uh, how many games have you watched? Unless I'm just not biting on your sarcasm...
and there is nothing the coaching staff can do in 40-some games and 3 months to change that??
great at ude. thankfully i remember the spurs have a motto about perseverance, i hope they remember it too.
like others said, pop instructing tony to give priority to the pass over the shot is the same as benching manu, its a sacrifice for the sake of the team (and another sample of tony's professionalism) and if it doesnt work you go back to "normal." Its better to go through this now than in the playoffs.
I must say that I wondered about this person's attempts to tell you of all posters that you don't understand ball movement and setting guys up for easy shots.Wow. Uh, how many games have you watched? Unless I'm just not biting on your sarcasm...
I guess you don't watch when we play defense. Bowen is DEFENSIVE player, he's been that forever. And we've won becasue of him. yeah, he's a little bit slower this year, but he's still top 3 defender in the league.
blame Pop if he calls offensive plays for Bowen.
I think you guys are all completely wrong about who TP is going to give up his shots for. It may be Finley or Barry but it may not necessarily turn out that way. What Pop is asking TP to do is find the open man & CREATE good scoring opportunities. If that open man happens to be Finley/Barry, TP should pass it to them. If it happens to be TD on the low post or Manu cutting, it should go to them. There is no way Pop would tell TP to pass more to a specific PLAYER. That would be insane. That would require TP to actually keep a mental count of how many passes he has thrown to Barry/Finley. Proposterous. What TP said in the press about distributing more to Finley/Barry was more just using Finley/Barry as an EXAMPLE.
In fact if you look at the shot count, what has happened (I belive) in the past two games is that lot of the TP shots that he has given up has gone to Duncan. And actually this is not a bad thing (as I mentioned in the previous post) because establishing TD in the low-post and getting him the ball will allow us to establish control of the paint, get the double-team coming at TD, get their bigs in foul trouble.....eventually opening up lot of good opportunities for our jump shooters.
In the past, what has happened is that more often than not, it was TP who was doing most of the shooting, penetrating, and scoring in the paint which meant that TD and most of the other Spurs were more of a spectator rather than working on getting open, cutting, and doing all the movement stuff to destablize the opponent's defence. TP should SAVE his penetration moves for 4th quarter, save his energy.....because by saving his dribble drive for the 4th qtr., he will have EASIER opportunities to drive since hopefully by that time, TD & the 3 pt. shooters will have sucked the defenders (perimeter) to the outside and prevent them from helping to collapse on Tony since TP can blow by any perimeter defender if they are playing further out (trying to defend our 3pt. shooters).
Does this not make sense???
1) get TD, Manu get more looks in the opening qtrs. (also this way TD's poor foul shooting is less of an issue in the first few qtrs.) to establish control of the paint and get their bigs in foul trouble (Manu is also very good at drawing fouls, unlike TP who is almost too fast & does not use his body as well as Manu in getting 2 & 1's when he penetrates)
2) once TD and Manu are penetrating and scoring, especially TD, the defence will start to double team TD earlier....at this point TD starts to find open shooters on the perimeter and hopefully Barry, Finley, Manu, Bowen can start hitting their 3's.
3) once TD and the jump shooters are doing their thing and have their defence in foul trouble, THEN Tony can do his thing in the 4th qtr. (dribble drive) when his energy level and the ability to penetrate will be easier since the defence will not have figured out that collapsing their defence is what they should be doing and also their perimeter defenders are actually staying on the perimeter to defend the 3's rather than collapsing into the paint area to double, triple team TP and strip the ball away from him.
This makes more sense to me than having TP get all his points in the first 3 qtrs., do not establish any balance or flow, do not get any of the other players involved, and then get stopped stone cold in the 4th when the defence starts to stack the paint and basically stop Tony from penetrating, daring him to shoot his mid-range jumper which is still not reliable enough to depend on.
Hi, I juste "cut" the quote in order to shorten my post.
Well, telecomguy, It seems your opinion and your vision of the "TP subject" has quite evolved since your first post.
First, I do agree with you. The gameplan you propose ( based on what you believe Pop is aiming to do ) seems to me quite interesting.
As Kori and timvp have said, Tony is making what Pop is asking him to do. Since the start. Has Pop changed his mind ? Is he trying new things ? Is he convinced his former gameplan ( Tony attacking madly during the first and the third quarter) belongs to the past ?
We all do not know.... I just do think that we cannot win a championship, right now, with the exact gameplan we had the years before.
And your proposed gameplan is talking to me very very much.
congrat's
Xap'
i have to admit, i am not Greg Popovich so what I conjectured above is just coming out of my own head and obviously not necessarily what Pop is telling Tony. I just hope that Tony becomes more than just a first qtr/second qtr (and sometimes 3rd qtr) star only to dissappear in the 4th.....and more importantly, I hope TP can make the other Spurs more effective and get more fluidity, balance in our offense. It doesn't take too much brain to see that when TP is going crazy, penetrating possession after possession doing his high-screen roll outs with TD in the first few qtrs., the other Spurs are mostly standing around not doing much cutting or moving because it is obvious to them that Parker is playing a one-man game and ain't going to pass the ball to them no matter how open they are or how hard they cut to get open.
this is not good.....and I HOPE that this is what Pop is trying to work on with TP. TP has great skills at penetrating and finishing but only Jordan (& to a lesser extent, Kobe) can really take over a game from beginning to end and win games singlehandedly....and even Jordan proved that he cannot win consistently this way, especially in the playoffs, which is why he became more of a facilitator (only taking over when his teammates could not score or late in games, when it mattered most).
TP save your energy for defence (his defence was REALLY poor last year in the playoffs....and still isn't as good as it could be....get some more steals!! ) and scoring/penetrating in the last 5 minutes of the game when it really counts. THEN and only then will TP become critical to our success. Right now he puts up the numbers but everyone knows that TP is not the key to Spurs winning the ring. He can be much more of a weapon if he learns to pace himself, use other players and play more of an all-around PG game even if by nature he likes to play SG and one-on-one dribble drive.
Telecomguy, I'll say it again. You are making too much sense.
Hi again..
You are still thinking that tony is playing the way he wants to, which is not the case... he does what he asked to..
All these questions are more on Pop.
And concerning the "defense" part, i do not care about "steals", i do more care about contested shots and contesting the passing lane.
TP can defend, at a high level. He proved this already a few years ago. during his second year and third year mostly...
xap'
What is really funny is that I made all these points in the middle of last year in the Spursreport forum and they kicked me out! Unfortunately for us, all my fears came true in the playoffs. Manu didn't play great either but Tim did his thing and if TP didn't dissappear, we could probably have beaten Mavs in 6.
Jason Terry abused Parker so totally...i can't remember how many times Terry was so easily able to lose Parker on screen rolls.....Parker was a bit hurt but to me, that's no excuse to be so soft on defence at such a critical series -- and offensively TP just didn't contribute when it mattered.
I hope TP can redeem himself this year in the playoffs....to me he has the most UPSIDE on our team. Tim is going to do his thing, Manu will do his thing (neither are going to surprise anyone) but TP can REALLY ADD VALUE TO THE TEAM if he plays smarter and get everyone more involved.
Everyone thinks we should trade Parker (although for Kidd, Nash, Billups, Paul, or that caliber of PG i would do the trade in a heartbeat as the window for winning the ring is NOW, not when Parker evolves his game in few years) but I doubt we could get a star PG for tony so the only hope is that Tony really learns to play more effectively during the second half.
At least, this is what I hope Popovich is trying to do with TP as opposed to "feeding" Finley or Barry...which is totally a stupid idea if that is in fact what Pop is trying to do (I am sure that is not the case!)
you keep mentioning Terry abused parker, but dude... what about Dirk abusing EVERYONE on the Spurs, what about Howard making a out of Manu, Barry and Finley???? what about Devin Harris abusing everyone??
why do you single out parker as being abused? all our players except for Bowen got abused by plenty Mavs.
I expect Dirk and to a lesser extent,Howard abusing our defenders but Terry?
Anyway you have a valid point....our defence did not play well but I thought Parker was our weakest link on defence because Terry and Devin Harris routinely went after Tony.
I think what happened against the mavs was that they tryed to play some zone D at times in the 4th qtr,and didn´t work out to good.there were only two guys(manu and tony)guarding terry,howard and harris,while Bowen was on Dirk.The spurs have done it before and it worked out pretty good,I guess Avery saw it and made some changes on the offensives plays in the 4th.quarter.
This is just like the finals were manu was sent to the bench so to give barry more confidence
You're completly right.
I think telecomguy gave some interesting points about the gameplan, but as you said, as much as Pop don't give the GREEN LIGHT to Tony in the 4th quarter,Tony can't change his game much more.
Another example concerning Pop being the total "controller",about Tony and his steals:Tony said himself that Pop doesn't him even to try to steal ,to avoid giving space to the opponents.Yet Tony has all the qualities to make many steals.
But yeah,it is sometimes frustating to see Pop don't using Tony at 100% and his skills, although he is the younger one.(Same with his gametime,I mean,34 min it's just like wow^10000 compared to all other "good" PG)
Are you saying that he gives green light for Manu to steal (because Manu steals a lot) but won't give Tony the option of going for steal? What kind of coach would try to micromanage a player to that extent? Pop would be insane to stop TP from stealing the ball if the opposing ball handler is loose with the ball and is ripe for aggressive move on TP's part to go for steal.
You guys all say Pop controls TP to the nth degree....I just don't buy that. He might give TP some general guidance but it's up to TP to perform and take what the other team gives, whether it be on offence or defence.
Please let's not excuse everything that TP does not do by saying Pop doesn't allow him to.......and obviously the corollary to that logic is that if in fact Pop won't let TP score in the crunch time or go for steals or pass too much (which I highly doubt), there is probably a reason for Pop to be so restrictive on TP -- and that reason cannot be a positive one if you get my drift.
Players have lot more leeway and control of what they do on the court. Remember when Manu was a rookie and he drove Pop nuts with all his gambling and crazy plays he used to risk? Well Pop i am sure told him way more than TP to tone it down and play under more control...Manu didn't listen and he didn't get kicked out of the team. If TP can actually pass well, score in the 4th, and put up lock-down defence and steal lot of balls, are you actually going to tell me that Pop wouldn't let him or that in fact TP would not be doing those things?
Too funny.'
Pop is a dumb .
Since Pop came with this TP is playing like crap
And the STUPID Finley is playing like always - TERRIBLE
Now we have TP playing bad because they want to get a 35 year old player to get his confidence back
Tony Parker just passed up 2 wide open threes!!!!!!!
What a in joke.....
The joke is Parker missing easy jumpers. Why do you think TP passed up wide open 3's? He can't hit them, and he KNOWS that!!Tony Parker just passed up 2 wide open threes!!!!!!!
What a in joke.....
5-13 was Parker's line today. You want him to shoot more? There was one classic situation where as usual TP dribbles headling into about 4 Rocket defenders including Mutombo.....he lost the ball trying to force his way in. TP's basketball IQ is really too low for him to be a good PG. I am inclined to think that unless TP can hit jumpers or create open shots for his teammates, perhaps we should have traded TP for Iverson. At least Iverson doesn't choke and wants the damn ball when the game is on the line.
On the season, Tony is hitting 50% of his jumpers outside the key.
But keep hating. It just makes you look ridiculous.
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