TimVP and Marcus Bryant are going to get owned

[TheWriter]

TIMVP, give up guy. It's like fighting with a wall.

Except this wall is a big vagina shaped human being.

[whottt]

Salary dumping is an indication that they were going to make a big splash acquisition. No doubt, bro. You are so right. F the haters who don't realize how valuable that 2009 second round pick will be.

Spending money needlessly isn't an indication of a smart FO....


Salary dumping was the max they could get for Scola...I know you'd rather he stayed in Europe becuaee you fear the Rockets...but the Spurs didn't.

I mean seriously, you called it. Big splash acquisition from the Rockets. Who woulda thunk it?

Whoda thunk the Spurs could have moved Scola for Nocioni and iddn't becausr they wanted to save $$$? You evidentally.

Don't worry that the Spurs would have saved lux tax dollars with a trade of Barry and Butler for Nocioni. Everyone knows you aren't a "cap guy". It's all gravy



No need to provide any links. We all trust you when you say timvp wants the Spurs to spend the MLE every year.

What do you want? Aside from Reggie Evans and Matt Bonner to lead us to a le I mean.

[whottt]

Of course timvp claimed that the Spurs turned down Nocioni. Even if he didn't post that, that doesn't mean you should stop claiming he did.

You have claimed everything short of the Spurs getting Wilt for Scola...

That secret Barry opt out was damn sweet. Nice call

Um...I never guaranteed Barry had a team option...in fact I said I couldn't prove it, I strongly felt he did, nontheless, he still has trade value...but no one saw that Ferry had one either that year...

[timvp]

Spending money needlessly isn't an indication of a smart FO....

Salary dumping was the max they could get for Scola...I know you'd rather he stayed in Europe becuaee you fear the Rockets...but the Spurs didn't.

Exactly. Plus the Spurs at the same time fulfilled your Big Splash Acquisition prophecy. You are so good

Whoda thunk the Spurs could have moved Scola for Nocioni and iddn't becausr they wanted to save $$$? You evidentally.

Obviously. timvp never said that but we all know that's what he thinks. You are owning that sly bas , keep it up.

What do you want? Aside from Reggie Evans and Matt Bonner to lead us to a le I mean.

Obviously timvp wants the Spurs to spend the MLE every summer. That's why he targeted a guy who was no doubt going to command a full MLE offer in Udoka.

You figured it out all by yourself. Props.

[whottt]

You know what?

Reconsidering it all...

I'll just say I was wrong. You win.

End of argument.

[timvp]

You have claimed everything short of the Spurs getting Wilt for Scola...

Some will think you are exaggerating. The truth is timvp really wanted Wilt for Scola.

Um...I never guaranteed Barry had a team option...in fact I said I couldn't prove it, I strongly felt he did, nontheless, he still has trade value...but no one saw that Ferry had one either that year...

Except for you, whottt, except for you.

[timvp]

You know what?

Reconsidering it all...

I'll just say I was wrong. You win.

End of argument.

Noooooo. You had him. You were about to pzwnt timvp.

[whottt]

Noooooo. You had him. You were about to pzwnt timvp.

I was wrong. You were right.

[timvp]

I was wrong. You were right.

That's it. Use the ol' reverse psychology on him. He's about to crack.

Score another ownage for whottt. He's on a roll. First the 2009 second rounder, now this.

[TheWriter]

I still say that Barry has a team option on the final year of his contract. I'm not sure about Horry...but they also hold a team option on Bowen, and Finley and Oberto have player options they are likely to opt out of. You are talking substantial cap space.

Yes, you were incredibly wrong, ing huge margins of wrong.

[whottt]

That's it. Use the ol' reverse psychology on him. He's about to crack.

Score another ownage for whottt. He's on a roll. First the 2009 second rounder, now this.

I was wrong. You were right.
I don't know what else you want me to say.

[whottt]

Yes, you were incredibly wrong, ing huge margins of wrong.

:yawn

[timvp]

I was wrong. You were right.
I don't know what else you want me to say.

You almost got him whottt. Just say one more time that he wanted to trade Scola for Wilt and claim scoreboard on that second round pick one more time and you'll have finished your pwnage.

[whottt]

Seriously though...I thought it over some more...



You hedged...


There is no huge upgrade at the SF the Spurs could have gotten without substantially overpaying or their offer being matched. Even if under the cap...even if they went scorched earth(which they probably would have done had they lost). The demand was too high for the top 2 Noccioni and Wallace...even if the Spurs had gotten under the cap, Noc was a RFA and Wallace was intent on staying in Charlotte unfortunately. Everyone else is about on par with Udoka or even more undeservingly overpaid.

Sorry...you and MB just ripped the Spurs, and saying you thought they should sign Udoka doesn't free you from being unjustly negative...

And if you can show me how Scola or Butler could have lead to a signing one of the big names and didn't...I'll join you in ripping Holt. But you can't...all you can do is speculate that we could have gotten a #1 pick from Cleveland or a second rounder from Sac...lame.


Spend the MLE on who...that helps? Trade for who, that helps?

Are Pietrus and Barnes provably better than Udoka?


In summary...I'm sorry...

For saying I was wrong, when in fact, I wasn't.



For a brief instant I thought it would make me feel better just to stop arguing...I was wrong about that too...it didn't. You played both sides of the fence...period.


The only thing you can do is say if Holt wasn't so cheap he'd have let Scola walk...which would be stupid.


And don't say you weren't bumping MB's 2008 Master Plan threads all season long and propping him...you guys have been having a Holt hate-on this entire season.

Prove we'd be better off throwing the MLE at Matt Barnes, prove he would even come...and who knows, we may wind up getting Barnes anyway.

[whottt]

Yes, you were incredibly wrong, ing huge margins of wrong.

If you could read...you'd know that wasn't the point of this thread...nor did I ever claim I had proof there was an option on Barry's contract...nor did I claim it was a necessity for this thread and my theory about offseason 2007 to be a valid one.

[timvp]

Seriously though...I thought it over some more...

I knew you'd come back. You were owning timvp, I don't know why you stopped. I mean, you're owning him as everyone who comes into this thread can attest to.

You hedged...

Nice. Keep playing the hedge card. Ignore that you invented hedging. No one remembers what did or did not say.

There is no huge upgrade at the SF the Spurs could have gotten without substantially overpaying or their offer being matched. Even if under the cap...even if they went scorched earth(which they probably would have done had they lost). The demand was too high for the top 2 Noccioni and Wallace...even if the Spurs had gotten under the cap, Noc was a RFA and Wallace was intent on staying in Charlotte unfortunately.

Now this is just utter genius. Argue against your own take. By owning yourself, you own everyone else in the process.

You are good.

Sorry...you and MB just ripped the Spurs, and saying you thought they should sign Udoka doesn't free you from being unjustly negative...

Another good move. It doesn't matter saying the Spurs are on a The 2008 Plan isn't ripping the Spurs. Who cares about the details?

The 2008 Plan means the Spurs were going to open cap space in the summer of 2008 so they could then make a move, but you knew that. The 2008 Plan doesn't even indicate that the Spurs are being cheap. That's why you are so good at owning people. You own them on make believe aspects of their takes.

Brilliant.

And if you can show me how Scola or Butler could have lead to a signing one of the big names and didn't...I'll join you in ripping Holt. But you can't...all you can do is speculate that we could have gotten a #1 pick from Cleveland or a second rounder from Sac...lame.

Once again, arguing against your own point. This is greatness

As you know, timvp never said that trading Scola or Butler would lead to signing a big name player. That's the brilliance of your post. You make something up and then argue against it. Not minding that what you say makes absolutely no sense is just the icing on the cake

Spend the MLE on who...that helps? Trade for who, that helps?

Once again, you prove to be the master of arguing against your own point. Forget that timvp never said the Spurs should or would spend the MLE on someone. Genius.

Are Pietrus and Barnes provably better than Udoka?

Oh man you just owned timvp with that rhetorical question.

In summary...I'm sorry...

For saying I was wrong, when in fact, I wasn't.

That's the whottt I know. He doesn't quit until he owns everyone in the thread. He even owns takes that nobody in the thread had.

For a brief instant I thought it would make me feel better just to stop arguing...I was wrong about that too...it didn't. You played both sides of the fence...period.

Gold. Tell him that he played both sides of the fence when all along all he wanted this offseason was Udoka. timvp hoped that the Spurs would turn some expiring contracts into players with longer contracts, but settled on just acquiring Udoka this offseason in preparation of a more active offseason next year. But we don't care about that. Own that timvp for wanting who the Spurs hopefully end up with.

The only thing you can do is say if Holt wasn't so cheap he'd have let Scola walk...which would be stupid.

Another great maneuver. Say the dumbest thing in the thread like it makes sense.

Greatness.

And don't say you weren't bumping MB's 2008 Master Plan threads all season long and propping him...you guys have been having a Holt hate-on this entire season.

Epic.

This is whottt at his best. Ignore that the 2008 Master Plan wasn't even about Holt being cheap. The 2008 Master Plan is brought upon by the front office as a way to add talent to the roster by opening up cap space. Cheapness has no factor in it. Yet you know this and still play the Holt card.

Impressive.

Prove we'd be better off throwing the MLE at Matt Barnes, prove he would even come...and who knows, we may wind up getting Barnes anyway.

Yep. It's just awesome how you make timvp prove stuff he never even advocated. Just keep fighting those imaginary timvp takes. It's great ownage.

Trust me.

[xapatan2]

You guys are great !

I am not sure, after half an hour of reading to have understood all the subtilities of this discussion, but from here in Lyon it is some great fun !

you "owned" me guys for an half an hour !

oh, well, i am going back to my work... still hoping that we would add some good thing to our roster... which is not the case at this time...

Xap

[UV Ray]

:yawn


How have I gotten owned yet?

The offseason isn't over, the Spurs have 3 open slots, and they have some big contracts to trade off...as well as other assets.


How is that owning?

Explain that to me...

I have no dog in this fight (because it would end my NFL career), but I would say you lost the argument barring what would seem to be a complex and unlikely PP movement and because you repeatedly and without evidence, attribute positions/opinions to timvp that he says he does not hold. And because I've been held captive in the Phantom Zone for the last thirty days and I have Stockholm Syndrome.

[sabar]

What have we witnessed here today?

[whottt]

Now this is just utter genius. Argue against your own take. By owning yourself, you own everyone else in the process.

You are good.

Um...I am not arguing against my own take...I am saying Scola wasn't worth what anyone thought he was worth...and I am asking you to prove the Spurs wouldn't have done a big deal if it had been available.

Another good move. It doesn't matter saying the Spurs are on a The 2008 Plan isn't ripping the Spurs. Who cares about the details?

It's ripping the Spurs when you say it's wasting Duncan's prime, when we've just won 3 les in 5 years...it's ripping the Spurs when you attribute a mass contract expiration year to financial gain or even selling the team.


And the point is...they were, and are, prepared to do something this offseason, they aren't and weren't penciled into 2008 and there is nothing to indicate they had tunnelvision for that offseason...the Scola trade is proof. Not that it's a big trade in and of itself, but that were willing to trade major pieces..and IMO, perhaps they still are.

The 2008 Plan means the Spurs were going to open cap space in the summer of 2008 so they could then make a move, but you knew that. The 2008 Plan doesn't even indicate that the Spurs are being cheap. That's why you are so good at owning people. You own them on make believe aspects of their takes.

Brilliant.

#1. You alluded to it being about selling the team, that it's about Holt not being willing to take on large multi year deals at the expense of Duncan's prime.


#2. Some of the stuff you accuse me of attributing to you is not so much me saying you said it...as me asking you to disprove my claims.

Once again, arguing against your own point. This is greatness

As you know, timvp never said that trading Scola or Butler would lead to signing a big name player. [/quote]

No...but you do think they could have gotten substantially more and refused to do so out of greed...

The only thing you see there is greed. You don't see the other possibilities. That maybe they considered a shot a signing Spanoulis and dumpong Butler without taking salary back better than anything else they were offered.

That's the brilliance of your post. You make something up and then argue against it. Not minding that what you say makes absolutely no sense is just the icing on the cake

Once again, you prove to be the master of arguing against your own point. Forget that timvp never said the Spurs should or would spend the MLE on someone. Genius.

I am saying if you want to claim scoreboard...the provide some proof I am wrong.

That's the whottt I know. He doesn't quit until he owns everyone in the thread. He even owns takes that nobody in the thread had.


Gold. Tell him that he played both sides of the fence when all along all he wanted this offseason was Udoka. timvp hoped that the Spurs would turn some expiring contracts into players with longer contracts, but settled on just acquiring Udoka this offseason in preparation of a more active offseason next year. But we don't care about that. Own that timvp for wanting who the Spurs hopefully end up with.

Right...and when you say that, I ask you to prove they could have gotten more and didn't...and then you say I am making up.


You have gone 90% GhostWriter circa 2002.

This is whottt at his best. Ignore that the 2008 Master Plan wasn't even about Holt being cheap. The 2008 Master Plan is brought upon by the front office as a way to add talent to the roster by opening up cap space. Cheapness has no factor in it. Yet you know this and still play the Holt card.

Impressive.

Ehhh...you've attributed it to Holt being cheap, you've done it in this very post I am quoting.

Secondly...I think it's pretty obvious there was no 2008 Master Plan, only year to year flexibility by a very smart FO...that they were and actually still are prepared to do something this offseason.

Yep. It's just awesome how you make timvp prove stuff he never even advocated. Just keep fighting those imaginary timvp takes. It's great ownage.

Trust me.

And you've tried to make this thread about capspace, about lux taxes, about whether or not the team had an option on Barry, about me throwing so and so under the bus...


When in fact...it was about the Spurs being poised to do a major trade this offseason...and there being no 2008 Master Plan.

Whether or not it happens...you are continually saying they have chosen dollars over upgrading the team...

You have said about the Scola trade...you have said it's why they refuse to take on multi year deals and instead go for a salary clearing year like 2008...


But you refuse to acknowledge that it was possible the Spanoulis trade, and the chance of signing him was the best thing they were offered.

[whottt]

I have no dog in this fight (because it would end my NFL career), but I would say you lost the argument barring what would seem to be a complex and unlikely PP movement and because you repeatedly and without evidence, attribute positions/opinions to timvp that he says he does not hold.

Yeah...and he's full of it on that...some of it at least, some of it is me asking him to prove I am wrong and him thinking I am attributing statements to him.


But ultimately it comes down to this...

This offseason isn't over yet. And he's painting it as if it is...

And he has said the 2008 plan is for a variety of things...including setting the team up for sale...

Link:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...highlight=holt

And because I've been held captive in the Phantom Zone for the last thirty days and I have Stockholm Syndrome.

Bottom line is that I haven't gotten owned except on periphreal details...like no team option on Barry...

That doesn't mean the Spurs didn't want to do a major trade/upgrade this offseason..that doesn't mean they couldn't.


I just want to see where I got owned in the point I was making at the beginning of this thread...it has not happened yet.


The only thing being owned around here is the reading comprehension of everyone saying I got owned. Because noone gets the simple point I was making...that the Spurs were poised to do something this offseason...the fact that they haven't so far has more to do with Scola's crappy trade value than an error on my part, or cheapness and cluelessness on the part of the FO and ownership...and everyone is still overvaluing Scola BTW...including timvp...he also refuses to admit it's possible the Scola trade was about anything more than money...he does this while simultaneously acting offended in this thread that I have ever accused him of accusing the Spurs of being cheap.


Hedging...

[whottt]

In conclusion...wake me when the offseason is over...that's when I'll be wrong...unless can you provide proof the Spurs turned down moves that would have upgraded them substantially for financial gains.

Or TimVp can provide proof that signing Udoka this offseason gives them more cap space next season than not signing him...it doesn't add up.

[timvp]

Man, whottt is so good at owning people. He can bold face lie without batting an eyelash. It's amazing.

whottt says that he changed his mind about Butler after watching summer league (or "training camp", like he calls it). But after the FOURTH summer league game, here was his take on Butler:

I was just checking out the Summer League stats...

Butler leads the team in scoring, rebounding, blocks and assists. His PCT sucks but...that's because of all the blown dunks.

It's strange how he's struggling with them...maybe losing all that weight took some of his power away...some guys are just meant to be heavy.


Anyway...I don't see what more people(or the Spurs) could want from Butler, especially when he's not getting the ball a lot of the time. When he gets it he's producing. And he's done pretty good setting screens and defending picnrolls....he hasn't been spectacular at it...but you can tell it's something he's trying to do...even though it isn't instinctive.

whottt is the number one homer of the Scola trade. He attacks people who don't suck up to the trade and bow down to the front office. But this was whottt's take THE DAY BEFORE THE TRADE:

I like Butler, but I don't think it's automatically a bad idea to trade him...just depends on what we can get for him...yeah, a second round pick is too little...ditto for Scola.


This article doesn't say what the Spurs are willing to trade Butler for...if it's just a second round pick...horrible. But if you can get more than that...because he is a bigman that can score pretty effectively...I think you have to consider it.

whottt tells timvp to justify throwing the MLE at Pietrus. However, the truth is timvp has never wanted Pietrus for anything close to the MLE:

Seriously, I'd probably balk at anything over three-year, $15M. He could be good or he could be a bust in the Spurs system. But I don't really see the Spurs getting him when he's getting at least $30-35M when it's all said and done.

At $30-35M, I don't think I could back the acquisition.

whottt tells timvp to justify throwing the MLE at Barnes. However, the truth is timvp has never wanted Barnes at anything close to the MLE:

Udoka for $9M > Barnes for $18-20M or whatever he ends up getting.

whottt tells timvp to justify throwing big money at Gerald Wallace. However, the truth is whottt was the one creaming about throwing big money at Wallace:

Whatever...but if he can't get the money he wants, he may want to win...and if the Spurs can get him for up to 10 mil a year via S&T...I'd say they should attempt it...it still puts hte Bobcats in a position of getting something in return instead of nothing.

Sin,

Spurs and DA 2001


The Spurs do have good trade relations with the Bobcats...and as you said, Jordan isn't exactly the greatest GM in history.

whottt says that timvp thinks that the Spurs should have gotten more for Scola and Butler. When in actuality, timvp's take is:

I don't care if the Spurs want to dump Scola and Butler. But it makes no sense to give them away for free to a divisional rival.

whottt claims timvp has been bashing Holt all along when actually, before the Scola trade timvp's last take on Holt in the forum was:

Holt has upped his game this year. He actually let the Spurs have a full 15 man roster for the entire season and paid that $50,000 fine so the Spurs could have a day off.

whottt is either lying or oblivious to the fact that the Spurs never wanted V-Span. It wasn't a horrible idea but the idea has absolutely no legs yet whottt runs with it.

whottt claims that timvp sits around ripping players all day. The truth is that is far, far from the truth. whottt has declined to give any examples even after being asked to repeated times. timvp has backed Duncan 99.99% of his career. timvp has defender Parker against the Manu mob. timvp fought for Manu for 6MOY. timvp backed Bowen and Horry all year. timvp believed that Oberto would come up big in the playoffs. timvp advocated starting Barry earlier in the year. timvp has all along called Jacque Vaughn the best third PG in team history. He backed Bonner, White, Butler and Ely. timvp admits to bashing Beno cause Beno sucks and just likes to party. timvp admits to bashing Elson because Elson sucks. timvp was hard on Finley for most of the year but gave him credit when credit was due ... unlike whottt.

whottt claims that timvp sits around ripping the front office all day. The truth is that in the last couple years, timvp was only against the Scola/Butler trade, the Elson signing, the repeated signings of Melvin Sanders and that's it. timvp has supported virtually every other move the Spurs have made.

whottt is simply amazing. He's had more bold face lies in this thread than most people ac ulate in a lifetime of posting. He mixes up bold face lies by connecting dots that don't connect. Saying that the Spurs are planning for 2008 doesn't mean Holt is being cheap, yet whottt connects that dot. Saying that the Spurs might be clearing salary to sell the team isn't anything else other than predicting that Holt might sell the team, yet whottt connects that dot to something different.

whottt is also impressive because of his inner conflict about whether he is right already or not. One post he'll say he'll be owned if the Spurs do nothing else. The next post he'll say he's already right because the Spurs made their "big splash" by giving away Scola and Butler. The next post he'll say that it's not his or the front offices fault that they haven't been able to make their "big splash" because Scola's right's weren't worth what they thought. The next post he'll go back to needing more for him to be right. It's impossible to argue against a person who can't make up his own mind about whether he's already been owned, whether he's owned himself, whether he's already owned everyone else or whether he's on the verge of owning everyone. That's the genius behind whottt.

Props. whottt just can't be stopped.

[kris]

This match is more even than anyone thinks. Whottt has drawn Timvp into 10 hours worth of posts.

[ShoogarBear]

In summary...I'm sorry...

For saying I was wrong, when in fact, I wasn't.