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Sure, the Spurs' media lackeys always manage to dog every player the team loses. Standard procedure.
You totally missed the point. I am talking about Spurs free agents who the Spurs bad-mouthed and who did not get the appropriate contracts after they left the team. Or moreso, players who they would not re-sign who seemed to be blackballed from the league after that. Any player the Spurs reject gets publicly maligned and the fans eat it up. And the story changes from year to year to come up with the new next excuse when the previous one makes no more sense- eg, Butler.
Sure, the Spurs' media lackeys always manage to dog every player the team loses. Standard procedure.
I see Splitter actually getting some minutes outside or at the high post like a PF with TD or oberto at the low post. He has a better all-around game.
On the other hand, unless Butler could raise his defense to an acceptable level, he won't get many minutes on the Spurs to post home about. we've never relied on the center position to take up the offensive slack when TD goes out.
And that's the difference.
Where have they badmouthed Butler of late? Ludden, the Spurs mouthpiece, has said the Spurs are willing to move him. There are a bunch of teams right now who've indicated they'd move players if they could for multiple reasons, including luxury tax, roster space openings, getting needed pieces. They've said nothing negative about Barry. They've even not said anything negative about Beno although most likley Pop would love to strangle the lazy asses throat. Obviously they are not thrilled with wht they bring for their cost or they wouldn't want to trade them.
'Fouls a lot and is unable to play defense.'
If Splitter is a PF then Scola must have been playing SF all this time.
They've also said Duncan doesn't shoot free throws well. I don't think stating what's obvious counts.
Butler is still a prospect. It makes no sense to dump on him at this point unless the Spurs are ready to run him out because they are afraid of the lux tax bogeyman.
My take on Butler:
Trading Butler at this time, just to get near/under the lux tax line is unbelievably stupid.
This kid not only showcased the abilities most already knew he had (rebounding and post-scoring), but also showed some abilities that no scouts had on him. He's got a very good BBIQ, is a good/great passer out of the post, a very good free throw shooter (one miss in five games), and has a soft touch which means he should be able to hit a 12-15ft shot with regularity and push out to 18-20ft with additional practice.
Seriously....how you would consider giving up on a kid this talented for so little and so early on in his development is beyond me.
Yes, there are legitimate concerns about his mobility and post defense (needs to stay on the ground)....but he offers far more capability on the offensive end RIGHT NOW than Elson, and is roughly at the same level defensively. Imagine what he could look like with two more years of training/mentoring under the Spurs' coaching staff and players....
Last edited by AFBlue; 07-12-2007 at 04:19 PM.
Lux Tax is not assessed until Feb deadline, IIRC. So, the Spurs shouldn't be in a rush to deal him. I think the prudent thing to do is see how Butler does in training camp against some of the other bigs (namely Elson) and gauge then whether they should look to keep him and move Elson or vice versa. I'm hoping for option #1.
My take on White:
I think some of us are being unfairly harsh on White for his summer league performance.
He did look to score off of mid-range and long-range jumpers too often, when he was better served being aggressive and getting to the line. No, he was not a great finisher around the basket, but he at least put pressure on the defense when he drove.
I think this setting was all wrong for White. He was asked to be the breakout performer on offense and the ultimate stopper on defense. The truth is, he just ain't that good at either of them...but if he was, he'd be a high pick making more than $700K next year.
I look to his time with the Spurs last year as a better reference. He played under control and within himself because he knew he didn't have to be THE guy....all while staying aggressive and keeping the defense on its toes.
The one glaring problem isn't that he didn't look like a defensive stopper...but that he didn't look like much of a defender at all. He seemed routinely disinterested in applying pressure and/or coming over for help defense. He didn't capitalize on his speed/athleticism to disrupt the ball-handler or even stay in front of him. I'm not saying he was terrible, but he'll need to show more to the Spurs coaching staff in Salt Lake City....IMO, that's what they'll focus on with him.
I still think White has a chance to stay on this roster, mostly because his contract is so minimal, he's had time invested in the Spurs system (albeit not alot), and because it's not likely the Spurs will pursue a "bigger"...meaning, more expensive....free agent.
It would be hard to find a contract that is actually SMALLER than White's. The guy makes about as little money as an NBA player can. The only reason you move him is to free up a roster spot. But anybody that says its for salary reasons is simply ignorant.
I'm just speculating on where and how Splitter might play as a combo 4-5. The league and the Spurs are changing the traditional roles of players with more of them playing as combos (2-3, 3-4, 4-5) rather than the one-dimensional players of yesterday. Role players especially have to have the flexibility and skill sets to do more things than to be one-dimensional players.
This is true with the Spurs as well as we see 'small ball' occasionally. The question in my mind about Butler is that he one of the old style centers and may not fit into the Spurs system because of his deficiencies in mobility and defense.
He might work out well somewhere else.
Is it likely to go down?
That was a response more to AHF and others who keep claiming Splitter is a PF or Butler plays more of a C than he does, but it's not true: Splitter is more a center who can play PF if he has to.
Yeah, he's on the cheap. No reason to move him barring a trade. I don't see Williams as the better prospect, unless the Spurs feel they could perhaps convert Williams into a 1.
Spot duty at the 1 was one of his appeals. I believe there was a Spurs quote on this.
My take on Williams:
It's tough to see how he should be on the Spurs roster after that five-game span, except for the fact that the Spurs just used a high-second round pick on him....so they'd look like fools if they ditched him that quick.
The Positives:
- He excels on defense....showed good intensity, great length to disrupt ball handlers and passing lanes, and good footwork to stay in front of his man.
- Contrary to some reports, he seems to have a good work ethic and a great willingness to learn. He does seem very confident, which might have been misconstrued as iness or a "me first" at ude. All indications are that those initial reports were overblown and that this kid has the drive to improve....which he'll NEED to do to stick with this team.
- When he was being aggressive offensively (though it rarely happened), he seemed to be able to get to the rim and more importantly, to finish strong. He'll need to show more ability in Salt Lake City...and Austin, if he makes the team....to take his man off the dribble. But once he gets past his man, he is very good at getting into the lane and finishing in traffic.
The Negatives:
- His shot is horrible. There's no other way to put it. I understand that this is a very small sample size and that he had that form last year when he shot for a very high percentage (almost 50%)...but it just looked "broken". If he makes the team, he'll need to work with Chip Engelland to fix the form and get more consistent.
- He seems to move in slow motion at times. While he was never touted as a highly athletic player, what he showed in the summer league raises a few eyebrows.
Having said that, hopefully he can display the ball-handling skills (which I didn't get an accurate read for) to create space in lieu of a "first step" and negate the concerns about his lack of athleticism...but right now it is a legitimate concern.
All in all, I'd say he makes the team for similar reasons to James White....team made investment (early second pick in lieu of $$ and time for White), he'll come cheap, and Spurs won't look to add more expensive option to fill out roster.
Call me crazy, but I think the positives with this kid outweigh the negatives. In a best-case scenario, I think he could be Josh Childress...a guy that alot of posters around here seem to like...and that ain't bad.
The way it SHOULD be is that Williams plays the 1/2 role with focus on penetrating and scoring, while White plays the 2/3 role and focuses on defense.
The only problem is that White seems to want to score, when he just aint that good at it, and Williams seems content to do nothing on offense.
Hopefully they figure out their roles, but I think there's enough space on the roster for the both of them if they do.
I think Marcus Williams will be fine and, down to him and White, I'll take MW as a year try out. That said, if he winds up anywhere close to Josh Childress, I'd be insanely happy.
Last I checked the Spurs had a fairly good record at roster moves. I think they know more about what players will fit the team than some guys on the internet watching highlight clips
jackie must say as a spurs !!!!!!!!!!
Who said anything about relying on the center position to take up the slack? I'm talking about our low post oriented offense falling apart and going into hibernation when Tim goes to the bench.
We show so little ing respect because:
1. Every year we win a le, the front office gets content and y, and then we get punked the following season
2. The last time we had a supporting cast this old around TD, we got smoked by LA in the playoffs
3. We've been around long enough to know Ludden is a mouthpiece for the Spurs, and have read enough articles from him in similar situations to know what's coming
4. We all know the reason Ian is in and Butler is on the way out is because they can get Ian on the cheap, even if he doesn't get off the bench all year long or contribute anything to the team
5. Some of us realize that Tim Duncan won't be great forever, and would like to win a few more les while he still is
6. You can argue that the 'deciders' are still riding the gravy train of hitting late draft gold in Manu, and haven't done since in the draft
7. Some of us are smart enough to realize that our primary threat and the one team built to beat us (Dallas) was taken out by an upstart team that didn't know any better, we can't count on GS-Dallas every year to take care of that, and that we are sitting here two years later still needing to address the same weaknesses in this team's personnel.
8. Butler is 22 and talented, and we appear on the road to ship him out just so Holt doesn't have to pay a lux tax penalty.
Now, didn't I say this on draft night, and everyone starting ripping me to shreds?6. You can argue that the 'deciders' are still riding the gravy train of hitting late draft gold in Manu, and haven't done since in the draft
Eh, carry on.
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