Spurfan needs to let go of their sentimental/nostalgic attachment to David Robinson..

[FkLA]

HUH?
1. So Mj shoul have points taken away because he beat an aging Lakers or Pistons instead of the prime 80's Lakers, Celtics or sixers?

2. So Dirk beating the defending champ Lakers, the new power Heat and thunder is LESS impressive than beating a young Cavs with Lebron but no wade or Bosh? or Beating the powerhouse NJ Nets? Or a Ewing-less Knicks team? Only run that compares is when you beat the pistons in the finals. Sure the Lakers were on fumes but the Mavs run led by dirk is every bit as impressive as any of the Spur le runs.

3. though no small market, what had Dallas won? As you pointed out many doubted dirk could even carry a team to a ring as the #1 ...he did.

4. I never said how the rings were won or shouldnt be analyzed but only the land of wizards, tongue rings, D&D and calf tats would anyone argue that Kobe/duncan or Dirk/David is not at least close enough to debate. So I think if it's close ring counts is the deciding factor. You do not. that is cool.

*BTW ...no i dont think Horry is better than Malone becuase he has more rings. that is stupid. Malone is miles better. it's only when the debate is close do rings matter.

*Just waiting for a dumbass to bring up Horry or john Salley ...

I agree that Kobe and Duncan are both all-time greats. There's no huge gap between the two.

Rings can definitely be the deciding factor in that case, my issue is that you turn to rings as the deciding factor without analyzing them. Sure 5>4 numerically, but once analyzed I think 4 at Gonzaga is a greater feat than 5 at North Carolina...wouldnt you agree?

[Bill_Brasky]

Depends. If he goes out there and lays an egg, understandable. If he kicks ass, but loses simply to a better team, that's not neccesarily fair.

True. The way he played last playoffs he seems like he's not gonna just go down to some scrubs like he did in '07.....he's gonna get deep and if anybody beats him, it's simply because they're better.

[Killakobe81]

He most definitely did improve, and apparently wasn't past his prime as we thought. He developed a post game, and a mentality that he wouldn't be denied. He apparently peaked a little later than most players do, even if it isn't in sync with his physical development.

I had said even prior to the playoff run, that Dirk IMO is arguably the #2 PF of all time. The way he put the Mavs on his back and won a championship just sealed that argument away, because he accomplished generally the same things Barkley, KG, and Malone had... great consistency, won an MVP, and was the #1 option on teams that went deep in the playoffs, but with no championships to show. Dirk did what none of those guys were able to accomplish, which makes it more than deserving for him to be viewed on a greater pedestal than they are.

This is where you lose me ...for now. Like i said if it is close, rings should decide it. Not sure you can say Malone and Dirk are close ....yet. If you ask me who I prefer, it's dirk cuz he is clutch. But who should be ranked higher is Malone even sans ring. If dirk gets close production wise, than yes the ring will move him above Karl. But for now, but I can't co-sign that yet. Probably same with chuck. I prefer winners but right now the body of work favors those guys over Dirk.

[FkLA]

I had said even prior to the playoff run, that Dirk IMO is arguably the #2 PF of all time.

This just wont stop with his ridiculously homerish takes.

[Killakobe81]

I agree that Kobe and Duncan are both all-time greats. There's no huge gap between the two.

Rings can definitely be the deciding factor in that case, my issue is that you turn to rings as the deciding factor without analyzing them. Sure 5>4 numerically, but once analyzed I think 4 at Gonzaga is a greater feat than 5 at North Carolina...wouldnt you agree?

i agree to an extent. But not totally. if we play that game the Spurs only beat one elite team in the finals. (3 peat Lakers none but had a brutal West)

So I dont think we should go down that road. And that may help in Kobe vs. duncan but when going dirk vs. David doesnt Dirk face the same issues EXCEPT market size?

So does the Packers le mean more than the Patriots? Maybe a better story but a ring is a ring.

[Killakobe81]

Also KG slightly over Dirk. Argued with a Mavs fan at work before dirk closed out Heat, not sure if I take dirk over KG. It's close ... but i think KG's all-around game and resume trumps dirk ...for now.

1. they have same ring count and KG was at least the co #1 on that team.
2. He has 1 MVP like Dirk
3. both have 2 finals appearances. Very close.

[FkLA]

i agree to an extent. But not totally. if we play that game the Spurs only beat one elite team in the finals. (3 peat Lakers none but had a brutal West)

So I dont think we should go down that road. And that may help in Kobe vs. duncan but when going dirk vs. David doesnt Dirk face the same issues EXCEPT market size?

So does the Packers le mean more than the Patriots? Maybe a better story but a ring is a ring.

What does the quality of the Finals teams have to do with how great of a feat winning 4 at Gonzaga is? Especially since Duncan played in the same era as Kobe, where the quality of the Eastern teams was just as bad for LA as it was for SA in the Finals. A ring is a ring, but the difficulty of obtaining one can vary alot. Its much easier to win one in LA than SA.

As far as the original argument... Dirk had a bigger payroll, and thus better savvy vets that stepped up big in the playoffs. Something Robinson never had. Thats a pretty important difference imo. Robinson does just as bad in the playoffs even with an owner with deeper pockets resulting in better teammates? Does Dirk ring with lesser teammates? When you use stretch logic ( Dirk 1> Davey 0) your basically answering yes to both those questions, which is re ed.

[TD 21]

dirk > davey

keep crying got

this is a fact

Way to cop out.

It's a fact, how? Because some dumb, whiny, defensive, overly sensitive, immature, racist hick thinks so? You're a joke.

[stretch]

Way to cop out.

It's a fact, how? Because some dumb, whiny, defensive, overly sensitive, immature, racist hick thinks so? You're a joke.

hi got

[TD 21]

Dirk is the greatest player ever, because he scores lots of points, he plays for my favorite team and most importantly, he's white!

[Veterinarian.]

lol td 21 with no credibility. You got on all over during the playoffs.

[Duncan2177]

lol ambchang thinking hes clever and witty when he really is just a re ed bag of

Grow up

[stretch]

im gay

[FkLA]

I had said even prior to the playoff run, that Dirk IMO is arguably the #2 PF of all time.

[stretch]

dirk > davey

facts are facts

[Giuseppe]

True. The way he played last playoffs he seems like he's not gonna just go down to some scrubs like he did in '07.....he's gonna get deep and if anybody beats him, it's simply because they're better.

& because then it'd be fair.

tee, hee.

[Nathan89]

I agree. But Spur fan (some) likes to switch their debates to suit their case. Prior to Kobe/Dirk ringing winning was why duncan was better. Numbers disnt tell the whole story. Then when PER and especially win shares said duncan was amazing they latched there. But now that 5>4 (kobe/tim) or 1>0 (dirk/david) the rings don't matter. Im with you Stretch, if the two players are CLOSE just as Kobe/duncan and Dirk/David are, then the rings should end the debate. Just like it does for duncan/malone.

For the record I also take Duncan over Karl but if the rings were even or close I would consider going the other way and I despise Malone. But the man could play he is just not clutch.

Lets just forget the fact that Kobe was the second best player on his team for his rings.

Or the fact that he has the luxury of playing on a team that can afford to keep more talent then the Spurs.

Lakere

[Nathan89]

Dirk couldn't win a ring if he had the teams David did.(during the same years as David)


On another note:
I have said that Dirk was the #2 Pf of all-time but now after thinking of this comparison I am not so sure. This thread has made me reconsider where I would rank Dirk on the Pf list.

[stretch]

Dirk couldn't win a ring if he had the teams David did.(during the same years as David)


On another note:
I have said that Dirk was the #2 Pf of all-time but now after thinking of this comparison I am not so sure. This thread has made me reconsider where I would rank Dirk on the Pf list.

dirk > davey

[Nathan89]

So you think Dirk would have won on the teams David had?

[stretch]

So you think Dirk would have won on the teams David had?

honestly don't know. impossible to tell as they havent had a chance to play with each others teammates.

what I do know is, both guys had a team without any all-stars, but was good enough to win lots of games, get a good seeding, be very successful statistically all-around, and go far in the playoffs.

Dirk took that caliber of squad and won a championship. Davey didn't.

Dirk > Davey

[ulosturedge]

Dirks teammates finally stepped the up and quit being pussies. Specifically Terry. Then Barea turned into wonder burrito. Kidd was puttin down the 3's also. Everything came together alot like the Spurs first championship. Everything was clicking. Everyone fed of each other.

That was the difference. The REST of your team actually stepped the up after years of choking. That never happened for David until Duncan came along of course.

Not to mention David played through a lot of ty coaches. Bob Hill, Jerry Tarkanian, John Lucas, Bob Bass, ect. The Larry Brown days was probably his best shot but that was in David's early years. He never got enough support. He had teammates that were either streaky or one dimensional and none of them were ever clutch. You lived and died with Robinson. Double and triple teams nobody ever made them pay.

Hakeem had Kenny Smith and Horry sinkin dagger after dagger making teams pay. even Mario Elie joined in the fun.

[Giuseppe]

Dirks teammates finally stepped the up and quit being pussies. Specifically Terry. Then Barea turned into wonder burrito. Kidd was puttin down the 3's also. Everything came together .

Dirk too finally stepped up & quit being a pussy.

& I called Barea. I was the only one.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You also called Turkoglu, Warrick and Childress

[Giuseppe]

You also called Turkoglu, Warrick and Childress

Let's just . Okay?